Hello everyone,

My daughter was just accepted into our school district's gifted program (we live in PA). She is in first grade and is 6 years, 5 months old. The GIEP meeting is going to be set up soon, and I thought I would share her WISC results to see if anyone could give me so insight into her scores...

Verbal Comp 126 (96 percentile)

Similarities 16
Vocabulary 14
Comprehension 13

Perceptual Reasoning 143 (99.8 perc.)

Block design 13
Picture concepts 19
Matrix reasoning 19

FSIX 138
GAI 142 (99.7 percentile)

I was fairly surprised by her VCI score, since according to her first grade teacher, who recommended my daughter for testing, she is reading and comprehending at a 6th grade level. She had also scored a 135 previously on the verbal section of the Kaufmann Brief Intelligence Test.

Also, she got 19s in 2 subsets of the PR index, and then a 13 on block design... I am not sure what that indicates.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks!

My oldest, who is also very verbal, scored in the 98th percentile for VCI. The 96th percentile is a good solid score and I would expect a child with a score in that range to be performing highly in verbal/reading areas assuming interest in that area. My youngest scored in the 99.7th on VCI at 7 and the 99th on the same subtest at 8. She doesn't like reading, so that hasn't been nearly as strong of an area for her as it has been for her sister. It seems to require a combo of interest & a certain level of ability.

In terms of PRI, my oldest also had a 19 on matrix reasoning, something around a 16 or 17 on picture concepts, and an 8 on block design! For her, the much lower block design was related to slower processing speed (it is a timed test) and anxiety related being pressed to work fast. She completely refused to complete the test when the tester kept telling her to work faster. How was your dd's PSI (processing speed index)? That might give you some clues into whether speed issues or perfectionism are the cause of the lower block design score.

Hi Cricket!

Thanks for the response! Her Processing Speed Index was 123 (94%) so I guess that would not be considered slow.... It just seemed strange to me that there was such a variance between the subsets in the PRI.

The lower block design score doesn't strike me as that odd. Each subtest is measuring a different thing, and Block Design does have the added time pressure.

I did wonder, however, if the pyschologist used extended norms to calculate the PRI, etc... Since your DD had two subtest scores of 19, I would definitely check on that.

NjMom, what are the extended norms? This is all new to me! Thanks!

I was hoping Dottie would chime in with an authoritative explanation of extended norms. (I can't seem to copy the URL and paste it in this message, but you can do a search of earlier posts on this forum, or look under Parents-Testing-WISC-IV at hoagiesgifted.org.) If you can't find it, let me know and I'll see if I can paste the link from Hoagies.

I am by no means a testing expert, but my understanding is as follows:

The short explanation is that 19 is the top scaled score that they give for a subtest. If a child gets a score of 19 they may have answered just enough questions correctly to receive that score, or they may have answered even more questions correctly than are required for a 19. In the latter case, there are now "extended norms" that provide scaled scores of 20 and above. These scores would then feed into the calculation of VCI, PRI, FSIQ and GAI, possibly raising those scores as well.

It's worth checking to see if the psychologist used the extended norms in this case.

Just wanted to say that WISC IV VCI doesn't measure reading comprehension but rather vocabulary knowledge and verbal conceptualization/reasoning. The questions involve straightforward defining words (Vocabulary), determining how 2 concepts are alike (Similarities) and open-ended verbal reasoning and social judgment questions(Comprehension).

Nope, 94th percentile is certainly not slow. My dd with the 8 on block design came out at the 42nd percentile on the processing speed index, which is still technically not "slow" in that it is within the range of "average." However, compared to all of the other indices being in the upper 90s, it is slow for her.

Thanks, everyone! I did not get "raw" scores... not sure if I want to bug the school psychologist again :-) Do you think it really is worthwhile? Maybe I can ask for this data during the GIEP meeting. In my brief conversation with her on the phone, she had said that my dd had answered all the questions correctly on one subset... at least that is what I think she said (I was a bit distracted during the conversation... driving... I know very bad!)

Also, Dottie in reply to your question, my dd can be a little reserved initially, but the psychologist said she "entered the testing session with ease". So I guess that was not an issue here... Maybe block design is just not her thing! :-)

One more question... I know the difference between FSIQ and GAI (they remove the WMI and PSI from the score)... but why would there be such a difference in percentiles between the two if a child is gifted? In other words, the report indicates that my DD is in 99% in terms of FSIQ (138), and 99.7 for the GAI (142). That seems like a rather large percentile difference...(isn't that 1 in a 100, vs. 3 in 1000?).

Thanks again!

FSIQ and GAI are figured based upon rarity of scores. In my eldest's case, her GAI was about 3 percentiles higher than her FSIQ b/c that processing speed index really lowered her FSIQ.

A child who does as well as your dd on PRI and VCI is, apparently, in the top 3 out of 1000 as you note. A child who does as well as your dd over all four tests is less rare. I may not be making any sense...

GAI looks at the two indices that are most correlated with intellectual giftedness. Auditory short term memory and speed (which is part physical dexterity and part mental processing speed) are a part of intelligence, but not as much associated with "G" (the factor that is raw intelligence or giftedness) as are verbal and perceptual reasoning.

A child could have had the same four scores as your dd but mixed around btwn the indices, for instance, and still had the same FSIQ. So, say a hypothetical child got a 99.8 on PSI and a 94 on PRI (the flip-flop of your dd), he would still have a FSIQ of 138 like your dd. He, however, would likely appear very different, have more strengths in being quick, but not be as able in some of the areas that are associated with G -- like perceptual reasoning. For that reason, his GAI would be much lower than your dd's.

I might ask for the raw scores so you can see if, with the extended norms, she would qualify for DYS.

Thanks for your informative reply, Cricket! Ok, it makes sense now!

Hi again...

I asked the psychologist about the extended norms, and she said she will recalculate my dd's scores using them. Thanks for letting me know about this!

I asked for and received raw scores but don't see how to calculate extended norms with them based on this report. What am I missing?

I did get the updated scores for my dd using the extended norms, and it brought up her scores a bit.

Her PRI is now 149, FSIQ is 140, and GAI is 146.

Hi Dottie...

Yes, we do have achievement scores, and they are high (98-99%), but not DYS level. She is only 6, so I think I will see how she develops over the next few years and maybe think about DYS at a later stage. Thanks for all your info and input!