O.K., I know this is an old topic, but I'm just coming up to DS's annual check-up, and am wondering on the topic again. In his case his WISC score came out as HG, with PG in math areas. His score was brought down by an average processing speed. Because it was average not below, the tester didn't take it that he was 2E. He is an 'extreme' perfectionist which perhaps accounts for the difference, but maybe he's ADD or OCD and it's being overlooked because he does so well elsewhere. Can't decide if I should mention it to the Pediatrician, or if I'm being ridiculous. Any ideas?

"Gifted" does not have to mean fast.

My son has much the same profile as your son. His WISC score shows him to be PG on the Perceptual Reasoning section and to have an average Processing Speed.

FWIW, my son is definitely NOT OCD or ADD. He's just a deep thinker who processes at the speed of an average 8yo. That doesn't mean yours isn't dealing with some other issue. But it does mean that it is possible to have the profile you're describing and not have other issues. DS8 isn't really even a perfectionist. He's just not gifted in speed.

With my son, I chalk it up to that spiky asynchronous thing that so many gifted kids have in spades. The thing I remind myself regularly is that the odd thing about him is not his speed. That's actually the "normal" part of him, the 8yo part. The odd thing is the fact that he can understand such complicated issues that most "normal" 8yos can't comprehend.

The thing that we have done to accomodate him is to homeschool, since speed does matter in a formal school situation. I suspect we would have a harder time making things work well for him at a school because he needs significantly harder work, but he needs fewer problems and more time to work them out. It would be a challenge for any teacher to make it work. But at home, I am able to work on his speed even as I downplay how much it matters in other areas (much as I would if it were a real LD).

I think you can mention it to the doctor if you think it will help you feel better and if you think the doctor will understand and be supportive. But if the only evidence you have of problems is an average speed score--especially for a perfectionistic kid--then I guess it doesn't seem to me to be a real problem.

Of course, all bets are off if you see other symptoms of OCD or ADD... Trust your gut!

I second Kriston's "asynchronous" comment. Until I was fourteen, I always got top marks on tests but was always the last person in the class to finish. One day in ninth grade I turned my test in first, and from that moment on I finished everything ten times faster than before. It was like someone flipped a switch. Scared the pants off my teenaged self.

I'm just now coming to understand how this "bottleneck" plays out in my son as well. He is very normal in processing speed but HG/PG in everything else. Kriston- that was the first time I've seen what he really needs explained in a way that made sense to me! Thanks for laying it out.

What my DS says- "It's like this mom- it takes a day for the thought to get organized in my head, then a day for it to get from my brain to my hand, then a day for my hand to write it." I have to remind myself not to get ridiculously frustrated while he's sitting there holding his pencil staring out into space... he IS working in his head, it's just not lightening fast like most everything else he does.

I find the whole processing speed issue crazy as well! My son is incredibly slow at writing and rote math, but can breeze through complex history lessons at remarkable speeds (he did a whole year's worth of lessons in two months). Last year, he devoured every medical book I could find, and he still remembers the details from those books. The whole thing baffles me.

We are homeschooling as well and it has greatly improved our lives. However, he is about to start going to a local school in the afternoons for Latin. I am hoping the processing speed issue won't be a problem there, since it is a very small setting.

Also, we've hired an educational consultant who tells us they can test for specific processing speed issues. I don't know the names of the tests, but she wants us to find out more about how our son sees words, etc. I'm not even sure it's worth the money, because it seems like these kids minds are really just out of sync during development. (We are confident he doesn't have any visual or other physical impairments.)

Glad to help, CAMom. Having to teach a child like the ones we're discussing has made it necessary that I figure this stuff out! And we're not alone in this approach. I have a friend with an HG+ child who gets 5 math problems per day to work, but they're 5+ years above the norm for his age. It seems to be the best way many of us have found to deal with this speed bottleneck in a way that lets the kids stretch their minds without taking all day to do it.

I should add, too, that DS8's speed does seem to be improving at a normal pace. He's faster now than he was when he was 6yo. That gradual improvement is one sign of normal, not LD, I think.

Apparently it is possible to improve processing speed with various exercises, Movingup6. We haven't bothered to try any of it (yet), though sometimes I question the wisdom of our choice...

For example, as we face DS8's first attempt at the Explore Test, a +5 test for him according to chronology, speed is my biggest concern for him. He could probably approach a perfect score on all sections if he had all the time in the world. But with 30 minutes for each 28- to 40-question section, I'm not sure he's going to meet with much success.

We did discuss test-taking strategies, but without my standing behind him cracking the whip, I fear he's going to get lost in thought and answer only one or two questions... *sigh*

Luckily, there's nothing significant riding on it!

Back atcha, Dottie and your DD12!

O.K. So the verdict is that I'm ridiculous. I agree! Darn, I wish I could get those nagging doubts out of my head!!!

I agree--not ridiculous. I'll tell you, after DS8 was tested, I spent a good while worrying about LDs or some such thing for him before I came to my understanding of him as just normal in the area of speed.

I'll say again, if the test score is the *only* reason you have for worrying, then I'd probably tell you not to worry about some bigger problem.

But if you see other evidence of problems, then Dottie's right: trust your gut. Look into it.

I just didn't want you to think that average-speed-but-above-average-IQ is an unheard of GT profile. It happens! And in many ways, it functions as a 2E issue even if it isn't really one.

Trust me... that high processing speed ain't all it's cracked up to be!

Our greatest challenge at the moment is getting our son to S-L-O-W D-O-W-N!!! because his accuracy and neatness are suffering.

We just watched a Roadrunner cartoon last week, one where the Coyote gets a pair of ACME jet-powered sneakers. Watching our son get a handle on his processing speed is just like watching Wile E. figure out those super sneaks of his. He spends the first few minutes blasting himself all over creation... but when he finally "gets it"... the Roadrunner almost gets his.

I imagine the high processing speed will be a great advantage for him at some point, but he's sure going to collect a lot of bumps & bruises along the way!

I think that a lot depends on your Pediatrician, and what specifically you are worried about. If you see other behaviors that suggest ADD or OCD (or Anxiety - that's a biggie!) then a pediatrician is great to talk to - but I would also bring specific examples of his behavior outside the testing situation. Some Peds love looking at WISC data, but I'll bet most would have less idea than you do what it all means.

The 2 questions I have for you are:
1) Do you think that he really does have slow processing speed, or do you think he scored average in those areas because of perfectionism or other personality aspects. What do you see in real life?

2) How is his working memory? If his PS seems to be affecting his learning or living, and his WM is strong, it might be worthwhile to teach him to compensate for his PS with his WM and work on training the WM, or at least doing an advertising campaign for it.


(My son - age 13- has an average PS (8 on coding!), but amazing WM so this is what we do. He also has been diagnosed with ADD and has recently started taking medication, which he just loves. I think what it does is allow his normal part of his brain to catch up a bit to his stronger parts. I'm really not so convinced that he is 'inattentive' as his will power seems really strong to me, as much as it takes so long to think the first thought that he misses the second thought. Or is that splitting hairs?)

Anyway - when you say average processing speed, check what the lowest subscore is - Average has a really huge spread, and 110 is a lot better than 90 when the rest of you is 140+. And remember, the subscores aren't meant to be looked at as microscopically as I am guilty of doing. I call it 'reading the tea leaves' to remind myself of this. If you son processes fast while playing games or in the car or isn't having trouble at school, then it may be 'an artifact' of the test instead of a feature of your kid!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

The" is he really slow processing/showing other signs question" - I'm just not sure. The wisc score is 103. His perfectionist issues come into it - he takes forever to decide exactly what he wants to write for instance when given a working title. Once he's made up his mind the work is excellent with perfect spelling, cursive handwriting (self-taught), and terrific detail. He's similar with lego creations and drawing - It has to be precisely as he envisions it should be, and usually eventually is. However, he's also really slow at getting moving generally - dressing, getting into the car etc. His WM score on the other hand is 144. Most of the time I think (and his teacher thinks), he has so much going on in that head of his, that is the reason he finds it hard to get into action. All your input is helping a lot, in my trying to figure this one out. Thanks
p.s. one more thing ... he's taken to 'writing in the air' with his finger lately, and he's doing it often. Ever come across this before?

Besides the entire last half of this post describing my DD9 to a tee (and she does not have a known PS issue, but we are trying to decide if we should get her tested for ADD), your P.S. describes me as a kid. I still find myself doing that at times, but I have vivid memories of doing this while growing up. I would even "write" what other people were saying while in a conversation. I have since learned that writing something down helps me remember it, so maybe that's why I do it sometimes without thinking. Now I often just visualize the words being written in the air near the person's head.

O.K. So I brought it all up with the pediatrician and I feel like I've opened up a whole can of worms, probably unnecessarily. It was so hard to find the balance between saying what's bothering me, and not blowing it out of proportion. I think I did the latter. The Dr. recommended DS to see a psychologist to be assessed for ASD and ADD, but only going on what I had to say, and now I feel awful. The Dr's now under the impression that DS has 'behavioral problems', and that really isn't the case. The whole basis of the ASD evaluation is that DS doesn't cooperate particularly well with his age peers (though not terribly), and that he is particularly smart in Math! (Many ASD kids are smart in Math so it could be a symptom!). The ADD I'm more willing to look in to, but I just wish I could take it all back now.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is such a tough course to plot, and I think most doctors assume that if we bring something up, it must be a medical problem. *sigh*

So what do you plan to do?

Thanks. The only thing I know for sure right now, is that I'm going to take things slowly and make sure the psychologist we end up with is REALLY experienced in dealing with gifted kids!