My mom forwarded me this...
DD is to young to IQ test and I do not plan on it till she is 5-6 because we would have to travel pretty far to have it done before that (no one in our area administers tests to children under 5 and all are looking more for ADHD etc then for gifted)

Anyway, what do you think of this?

http://www.drphil.com/assets/0/00942d1ed07e4ae60f51f504ba53b066.pdf

A different file she sent shows how to administer and score it....each part the child should get 80% correct to move on to the next age level's question. The last level the child gets 80% correct on, is used to calcuate score....for example it says if a 6 year old is functioning on a 6 year old level then her iq is calculated 6/6 x 100= iq of 100
6 year old functioning on a 8 year old level would be calcuated like this
8/6 x 100= iq of 133

Thoughts on weather this would give a good ball park.

Just looking at what I know DD can do and not on administering the test she would be able to complete over 80% of the 5 year old level, but not quite 80% of the 6 year old (mainly due to not being able to write very well yet)...thus calculating 5/2.9 x 100 = iq of 172, although her nonverbal would be on a 6 year old level giving that part a specific iq of 202. These seem to be similar numbers to the SB L-M

These seem really high, although the age levels match up to what dd is doing and where her pediatrician placed her at her last appointmet 3 months ago.

Anway, just wondering what anyone else thought as I was curious after my mom forwarded to me.

I don't like this too much. There are some questions that do seem to get to some sort of ability, but many others are achievement based. For example, writing the names of friends or address.

I think it is too short and it doesn't really give you a good idea. I did not finish it, but read through it thinking of my 4.5 year old. She tested HG++ verbally on WPPSI-III. I think her score on the WPPSI would not line up at all with that instrument.

I do think that perhaps you can use it for delay in terms of what a typical child could/should be doing at a certain age.

It is good, in my point of view, to understand what normal development looks like, and for instance realize what of the things your dd is doing are typical for what age; but guessing an IQ from that, I do not think would be even close enough.

This is more like an achievement test than a cognitive abilities test.

The "IQ" score is modeled on the old-style ratio IQ. It is not equivalent to the FSIQ on the WISC-IV for example.

I think the link to the PDF you attached is interesting. I dont' think it would be very accurate, but interesting for those who don't know what kids approximately are expected to do in what grades/age.

So, very interesting to see, because this yet confirms again, if a parent is wondering, if there is something to their child being gifted etc

Hmmmm.... According to that wolf levels out in spatial math at a 10 year old level, but some similar questions were in his 2nd grade math book, so I'm honestly not sure how accurate the test is to begin with.

I'm also unsure what they want in the vocabulary area. Is it ability to read the words, ability to spell them, ability to use them in a sentence? The level he ended in would depend on that.

It seemed very weird to me, and the expectations are skewed.

Examples:

Five years old: "Identifies beginning consonant/vowel sounds, Recites the alphabet."

Followed by:

"Can write own name/address"

If a five-year-old is only expected to be able to say the alphabet and identify beginning word sounds, expecting her to write her address is a stretch. Plus, some kids will live at 16582 Quaker Hill Boulevard in Gillespie Township, while others will live at 5 West Way in Bend. So the difficulty of this question varies according to a random factor, making it meaningless as a measure.

Nursery rhymes: can what happens really happens? This question is subjective. I mean, sure, I could shove my kid's cradle into the top of my plum tree and wait for the wind to blow it down, right? But surely, no one would ever do that, right?! But what about weirdos? Another meaningless question.

A six-year-old is only expected to read "m-o-m," yet a five-year-old should be able to write her address?

Alternatively, many vocabulary words seem to be ridiculously below level (breakfast, school, and children at age 8??).

A few of the nine-year computational math problems overlap in complexity with the eight-year problems.
Plus, "What comes before and after the number 23?" seems trivially simple for an eight-year-old.

I could go on and on about holes in this test. Overall, it seems highly achievement-based and hothouse-oriented. Plus, it contains questions in which random factors influence outcomes.

Okay, can anyone tell that I spend time picking things like this apart? I actually get paid for this kind of work.


Val

Yeah, I agree with Val, reading this I felt especially the verbal questions were all jumbled up between what levels would really be, having looked at a few milestone lists in my day....writing an address at age 5 seemed really out of whack, considering most kids are just learning to read at age 6. I mean, if your child can do all that stuff, fantastic! But I wouldn't use it to rule out giftedness or assume a child is having problems, when yesterday they seemed just fine.
But an interesting read, thanks for sharing!

I don't think this is accurate at all. It gives my dd an IQ of around 142 and that's not correct. She is more in the MG range. I didn't look at the entire thing (beyond 6 years old) but I think Dr Phil isn't correct on this one.

I think it's a fun little game, if you like to do those types of games. But it illustrates the problems with testing young children. How will this testing situation distinguish between the 3 year old who knows his address because he happened to read it on the mail, or the 3 year old who learned it over a period of weeks of practice? Most 3 year olds don't know their address, so to know it shows advanced knowledge, but there's a big difference between the 2 children I gave as an example.

And probably more important, can this test find the kids who know roads/streets have different names, and houses on those roads/streets have unique numbers on that street; but the kid may not know his own address?

Amazedmom, your child is obviously advanced. Just keep having fun showing the world to her at this time.

What everyone else says. I dare say it was validated on some child somewhere who gets the same IQ based on this that they get on a real IQ test... I'm just not convinced there was more than 1 child in the validation sample!

Amazedmom, it's only a number, and even on real tests it's not going to tell you anything you can't tell better by observation of your lovely daughter :-)

The one about writing name and address was actually a "graduation" requirement from my DS's pre-K program. They don't have to read to be able to do it. They spend hours tracing it. It's muscle memory more than actual understanding ;-) Doesn't make your kid smart, just able to trace well until you can form the letters!

Ditto.

This is a classic example of a ratio IQ test (cognitive age/chronological age multiplied by 100), except that the material is totally jumbled and much of it is achievement rather than intelligence. I wouldn't take much or anything from it. The scores certainly would not correlate to modern tests.

As you said yourself, your child is too young for testing. It's a strange place to be in, knowing that your child is gifted and wondering how gifted and having no way to know. I am there too. Maybe all of us are there or have been there.

Thank you all, that is what I was thinking. I did not give it to dd, just looked it over when my mom sent me the link, and i was wondering the same thing, how could it tell the difference between a child taught all those things and one who just picks it up.
I was just wondering what everyone else thought. Thanks

I just glanced at this but was left thinking, "Is that REALLY what most kids can do at those ages????" I have no perspective and the things they ask seem so simple and my DD 3 can do things into age 7 but her IQ test (which may not be accurate sinced it was done so early) does not place her score as high as that suggests. I know you are just so curious, but even if she does have a test, you may still be left wondering if it really got it "right" as I wonder. I suppose you can look at my DD or others who did similar things and guess based on that and look at RUF's guide (I know you already have). How is she with puzzles?

The thing with little kids is that so much of what they do/can do is based on interest. My oldest dd at 2 for example, did not have any real interest in puzzles. When she started liking them, she went from slightly behind average to ahead.

She couldn't recite the alphabet because she did not have any interest in letters as a toddler. She only knew a handful of capital letters when she turned 4. By the time she was 5, she was reading chapter books (not just Magic Tree House, but more complex ones).

This "test" would have subestimated her IQ, and I am sure it over estimates for many other kids as well.

Just for kicks, I asked DS to start at the 7 year old questions (he's 6 1/2). He did all through the 9 year old ones, then quit and said the 10s were too hard. So assuming he actually couldn't do any of the 10s and using his age as 6.5 it came out a slight underestimate of his actual tested FSIQ.

I'm not saying that in any way validates it, I just was curious!

She is great with puzzles, can complete 48 piece ones very quickly with no help and while talking about other random things. Need to buy some 63 piece ones...got all the 48 for christmas but they were easy too LOL. I underestimate I guess. I know what you mean about "i that really what most kids can do?" I used to have no clue and was wondering why her ped was so shocked. The pbs.org site has a good milestone list that really opened my eyes. DD constantly surprises us, but today another stand out moment was when she said "I am just fascinated by Christmas lights" Umm definitly not average for a 2 year old to use the word fascinated. She converses every day on a very adult level, and she even uses some words that her babysitter does not know.

I would love to get her tested at 3and 1/2- 4 so I could see if we could get her into early enterence to K, but no one around here does tat so we would have to travel for the test, and even then I am not sure if K would be a good fit then as she is on a end of K- first grade level on most things even with never having been taught. She has been exporing addition for the past few months and this month started exploring subtraction, all of which I have never even introduced for her. She just figured out this past month how to count to 100 by 1's. She had already figured out how to by 10's, and she started counting backward from 10 this month. So I don't know if it would be worth starting K early or if we will just homeschool here since she will be above the K level...and I don't even know if we can do early entrence here. there is no state law saying yes or no, but leaving it up to the district.

Anyway this was interesting to see where she would fall age wise but it just confirmed what her peds, the educational specialist I know, and the milestone charts say. Dh and I look at each other all the time and and shake our heads in amazement LOL.

Hi Amanda,

I know I keep saying this, but I wish our daughters could play together. They sound similiar, your DD might even be ahead of my DD at that age, but I am not sure because I tend to forget exactly when she did things, just that she often shocked me. Mine also will sprinkle more adult words in to her sentences very casually. I am always amazed how she just picked them out from hearing them. I have no doubt your DD is gifted. I don't see home schooling working for us for a variety of reasons:one she really doesn't want to do anything that is about "learning" if I suggest or lead it, but I suppose in some ways she could lead herself. Two, I just think she would benefit from being with others during the day. She is highly social and can be draining if it is just us one on one. We really need other input here and I want others to absorb her energy and for her to learn how to be a part of a group. I found a preschool that would let her do whatever she can next year. She could be with six year olds, but then I am dumbfounded by what to do for kindergarten. I don't think I am going to enroll her a year early because she would be almost two years younger than some kids and while she can do everything and more intellectually, she needs another year to gain some self control. It is a tough decision and it must be hard for you if you are in a place that does not have many options.