My ds is 8 years old (just turned Nov. 30). Last year we homeschooled and he completed Abeka 3rd, 4th, and part of 5th grade math. This was done when age wise he was a 1st grader. This year we chose to put him into a virtual public school. They allowed him to grade skip to 3rd but he had to start with 3rd grade math. Thankfully this school allows him to work at his pace in math. He finished 3rd grade math and we are about 1/2 way finished with 4th. It is slow goings b/c he has to do every lesson, unit and semester assessment. He should finished in about a month and start 5th grade math which after looking at the topics there may be only a couple of units that will be new.

He reads anything he wants to with full comprehension. Currently he is also doing an online science program where he can move between 3rd-12th grades but prefers to stay in the 7th-12th grade levels.

The only area in which he is weak is writing. And this isn't b/c he can't tell stories. He can dicate to me a 3-5 page story, great details and vivid imagination. He just can't get it from his head to the paper. I also think the muscles in his fingers are weak.

So, we figured if he can read anything, science at a high level and math 3-4 grades above age level that he would be a great candidate for DYS. We only needed the scores. He did take the WPPSI at 4 years 2 months and scored a 130 but the tester said that his score would have been higher but he wouldn't do the easy questions only the harder ones.

So, we had ds re-tested using the WISC-IV and WIAT-II this past September. Here are his scores:

Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI) 121
Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI) 127
Working Memory Index (WMI) 113
Processing Speed Index (PSI) 94
Full Scale IQ (FSIQ) 120
Reading 122
Mathematics 119
Oral Language 134

So, I don't understand why he can be so advanced in his academic studies, be gifted when he was 4 and now not be gifted at all. How can he be working 3-4 grades ahead in math and higher in science but only have a FSIQ of 120. This just doesn't make any sense.

Can anyone explain or direct me to someone who can? I'm just at a lost and I don't know what to do.

Thank you
Kathy-TX

Did the tester know to look for giftedness? Was your DS cooperative? Getting sick? Lacking sleep?

Many things can pull down an IQ test.

IQ is a snapshot of a single day. If you've read Ruf's 'Loosing our Minds/5 Levels of giftedness' that might round out the picture a bit.

I think that his science is impressive, and you may want to do a portfolio, but I wouldn't stress the Math, as by age would be actually be a 3rd grader in some states, so doing 5th grade is definitly MG, but not a sign of PG.

Have him dictate some book reports of some of his harder books, and video him talking about his HS Science, and I think you have a shot at DYS.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I thought that the portfolio option was for kids who hadn't been tested for financial or other reasons, not kids with test scores that didn't qualify. No?

On the original question, though, I too wouldn't assume that he isn't gifted, although he may not be DYS level gifted. My oldest had a 132 IQ on the WISC-IV at 7, which would indicate a moderately gifted child. She consistently performs like a HG+ type of kid although I don't have any indication that she is DYS eligible either. She's had a few scores on the cusp of DYS eligibility, but overall has not had anything that absolutely says she would qualify. We aren't pursuing DYS for her for that reason.

Like others have said, it is a snapshot of one day and some kids don't test as well as others.

I know in some states he would be a 3rd grader but not in Texas. So, when I have to compare him to his age peers they are only in 2nd grade. It would have been nice to live in a state where he could have started early but even with that one year that wouldn't have helped us.

As far as his math it is only 2-3 years ahead b/c he has been held back either by me or the state. He did take a test at the beginning of the school year for the virtual school and he was doing basic algebraic equations and getting them correct, however I don't know how b/c no one has shown him how to do those type of problems.

And what would I hope to gain from DYS? I would love to find other kids like my ds so that he can have someone to relate to. Also, I would like to see if DYS can help in school situation. Then we are having some behavioral issues at times and I don't know what to do.

I too didn't think the portfolio option was for kids the didn't have scores but ones that wasn't financial able to get tested. I may have to reconsider doing the portfolio.

I don't follow that sort of thing so closely as Dottie, so I would listen to her - but the science sounds tantalizing.

I am 'curious' about your daughter - Full Scale IQ really means nothing for some kids, and with the modern tests they really don't measure LOG very well, which is why YSP looks at subscales, not full scale. Do you mean subscale scores or subtest scores? How close to that cusp?

Your subject line is: I don't know what to do?

I'll help you figure it out if I can.

Hey Kathy-Tx -
Our Posts crossed!

Have you read this article? I find that I have to re-read it every few years:

http://www.stephanietolan.com/is_it_a_cheetah.htm

Still thinking,
Grinity

Hi Kathy-Tx-

If you haven't found "The mothership" - take a look at:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

(Notice the logo? wink)


Have to tried to contact these local groups?

There is a whole world of 'unusually gifted' outside of Davidson's YSP.

There are conferences

Have you sent emails to -


They may have advocacy help and social opportunity ideas.

If you can stomach it, it's probably a good idea to print out and read:http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/gted/GTStaPlaEng.pdf

My hunch is this: If you homeschool your son for even one more year, he probably will be so far advanced that his achievement scores will accurately reflect him, even if the IQ scores never do.

As you say: How can we know what level Math he could be doing if he was never taught or shown or even exposed? If a Cheetah lives in a Zoo cage, and never runs at all, Is it still a Cheetah?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Kathy,
Do contact your local TAG group. You just missed the conference - it was in December with Jan Davidson as a guest speaker - but they offer several events throughout the year. TAG Texas Gifted
is reputed to be a wonderful organization. I think you would find some peers for your child. BTW, my DS also missed the cutoff and is in 3rd gr but could easily have been in 4th but for a few months. It is frustrating. Just keep challenging him best that you can - projects, nurture his passions, a bit of after schooling...
This is a long road and results won't seem obvious (something I keep reminding myself).
Good luck!

I didn't intend that as my subject line; I only intended to reply to the original subject line. I don't want to derail the op's thread, so I'll be as brief as possible. I've posted about dd here before. I really don't think that she is quite a DYS kid although I do think that she is more than MG. I meant her as an example of a child who is clearly more gifted (at least to me and on achievement tests) than her IQ scores indicate.

Her WISC 132 IQ score was a GAI. I do think that even the GAI would be a bit higher if figured now w/ extended norms b/c she had scores ranging from 8 to 19+1 on the PRI. The PRI overall with those disparate scores was at the 95th percentile. Her VCI was at the 98th. WMI, if I recall correctly, was around 93rd and PSI was 42nd. When I mentioned "on the cusp" DYS scores, I am referring to achievement scores. Her WJ-III scores at the same time as the WISC were close, but not quite there (even subtests weren't quite there). She took the EXPLORE in 4th grade as well. Her science and english scores more than qualified for DYS, but math was nowhere close and she kept leaving the room to go to the bathroom and cry during reading b/c she thought that she was bombing the test, so she didn't even come close to finishing that section. Reading and composite also weren't at DYS criterion for that reason. Reading is usually her strongest area.

We'll see how she does on the ACT this year as a 7th grader and I'll tell you if I've changed my mind on her DYS eligibility (although she is a very young 7th grader having skipped 5th and b/c she was already quite young for grade so I don't know how that effects how I should view those 7th grade achievement scores).

And, if homeschooling longer term is viable for your family, you can make this work even without the DYS support. My oldest is doing quite well with advocacy on our behalf and some modifications in her schooling even without DYS. There are a lot of gifted kids out there who aren't in DYS and whose parents are finding a way to make it work for them anyway.

I'd trust your gut. You may not have scores that tell you exactly how gifted he is, but you know who he is and his scores on a test don't change that.

My bad - I got confused!