DS is slated to enter Kindergarten in Sept but his preschool teacher (and we) feel he may be ready for a grade skip or should at least be assessed. Having just read the thread on skipping or not skipping K I am re-thinking what is the right thing for him but feel we should at least know what he is ready for academically.

I have no idea what his school's policy is on testing, grade skips etc. Should I be starting with the school itself or the district board of ed? What questions should I be asking other than if they are willing to test my son?

Thanks
Song

Hi Song - we also have a DS5 going into kindy in the fall. We first approached the school's gifted coordinator (who really works with kids starting at 3rd grade), which was very helpful because she really got what we were talking about. If your school has a gifted coordinator/teacher (even at the wrong grade level), that person should be able to tell you about the school's policies. (You can also try to search out your school's policies on the internet or at your local library - i hear many school's have the policies available in those locations). At the same time we contacted the gifted coordinator, i also contacted one of the state's gifted specialists, who i found on the state's DOE website.

We already had IQ testing under our belt, so that helped us when talking with school personnel. They got a report from a professional, versus hearing from just another parent. Along with the report, what helped us was approaching the school with an attitude of "we don't know what we should do, our kid is like this, what do you recommend?" The school came up with the idea of achievement testing then.

Since it sounds like you don't have testing available from your post, maybe you could get a letter from the preschool teacher that states how advanced she feels your DS is compared with other kids, and approach the school with that and your descriptions of what your child can do (if you have anything you can put in a portfolio to show the school, that would probably help too).

Good luck! (fyi - our school offered differentiation in the kindergarten classroom for our DS, along with handpicking a kindergaten teacher who was willing and able to work with him, and offered regular meetings to see if the differentiation is working. We didn't advocate for a skip, since our DS is going to have a big adjustment going from very parttime preschool to full-time kindy anyway, and also he doesn't write yet.)

Holy cow! ALL kids are expected to know these things BEFORE starting K?
We have one of the highest performing elementary schools in the state, but I can tell you that very few kids know all of the letters and letter sounds BEFORE entering K. And sight words? Definitely not.

All I can say is HOLY COW as well (things that the child should know before entering K (20 of 25 sight words, 1:1 number correspondence, shapes, letters and sounds, and recognize name in print)

I taught Kindergarten in Florida for almost 15 years and these are pretty high expectations for kids entering K. I can't find my old link to the national standards, but the items listed above are standards/expectations that are expected by END of the year Kindergarten in most states.

These are more along the lines of what is expected when a child enters Kindergarten:

speaks clearly
recognizes rhyming sounds
recognizes size and position (big, small, up, down, over, under)
manipulates buttons and zippers on his belongings
traces and copies basic shapes
holds conversations using complete sentences (five or six words)
identifies some letter sounds
identifies letters of the alphabet
sorts objects by color, size and shape
recognizes groups of up to five objects
counts and recognizes numbers up to 10
recognizes his first and last name
writes his first name
uses crayons, paint, paste, scissors, pencils and clay appropriately
draws rather than scribbles

Goodness, I hope that they honestly don't expect all K children to know all their letters and sounds!!! For a lot of children that is not even developmentally appropriate in the fact that some children developmentally can't even make a few sounds correctly by that time. There are late developing sounds for some children that are considered developmentally appropriate to not have yet by kindergarten....such things as L, R, S (sea/C sound that S makes)...along with several blends.So to expect all K children to know all their letters and sounds before entering K seems a wee bit ridiculous!!

just went to Yahoo.com and typed in Kindergarten readiness checklist and found many state education/county departments that came up and no where on any of them did I see any of the expectations such as knowing all letters/sounds/sight words..hope this helps!

<some children developmentally can't even make a few sounds correctly by that time. There are late developing sounds for some children that are considered developmentally appropriate to not have yet by kindergarten....such things as L, R, S (sea/C sound that S makes)...along with several blends.So to expect all K children to know all their letters and sounds before entering K seems a wee bit ridiculous!!>

Just wanted to point out:

just because a child can't sound out a letter doesn't mean he or she can't 'know' it, i.e. understand its meaning -- my son recognized all the letters, and was able to recognize the sounds they made, for several years before he was able to *make* all their sounds correctly.

I don't believe this asynchronicity is unusual among gifted kids. It did make him difficult to understand as a toddler, but didn't interfere at all with his ability to read.

It always suprises me that kids DON'T know these basics when entering Kindergarten. In many preschools (2-3yrs) and pre K they are teaching letters, colors, numbers. These were all things our daycare center taught and we also did at home long before K.

Our district has grade level expectations on their website. You might see if your's does. I had a conversation once with a K teacher in our district (we are in a high income area and very few moms work so the kids aren't in preschool/daycare really). The K teacher told me the #1 goal for the first few months of K is to get the kids used to being away from mom for the first time in their lives. No wonder they can't learn anything. She said after an hour they are crying. I thought this was really pretty sad. I know this isn't the case for all kids but I bet for a lot it must be.

Lauren,
It's possible that your child wasn't tested on what was expected at start of kindergarten, but rather on what is expected by end of kindergarten. For reasons that continue to make no sense to me whatsoever, children wishing to be admitted to something "early" are often asked to show skills well beyond average expectation. Fifth graders in our district are given the opportunity to take a test in the spring to see if they can bypass sixth grade math and go straight to seventh. However, the test that these fifth graders take is *significantly* more difficult than the end of the year sixth grade test. When I questioned this, I was told that they are looking for students who are "two years ahead" (Hmmm. Wouldn't those students be better served in 8th grade math???). I know this general idea has been addressed on other threads. I "get it", but I don't get it.
Taminy

Lauren,

I have a friend who tried to subject accelerate her son to second grade math. In order to do that, the school required him to take the END of second grade math exam and pass in order to subject accelerate him to second grade. I know it doesn't make sense, but it happens. I think school doesn't want to accelerate a student only to find out that he/she will drag down their score. Like Taminy said, I get it, but I don't get it.

I would start by calling your district and see what rules they have regarding skipping K, our district will not allow skips before K, they want time to observe the child in a class setting before moving forward.
After getting the details from the district I would approach the school next.
Warning, some schools get offended easy, so you have to tread lightly while making a firm stand for your child.

FYI. My MG DD7 loved K, being ahead of the class gave her the confidence boost she needed for the 1st year of school, DS3 on the other hand, already suffers from too much confidence. I doubt K will be as successful for him. My fingers are crossed.
I wish you luck and please keep us posted.

This is a tough question because every school/situation is different. We had DS tested privately, submitted the report to the school early on (to the superintendent), and then met with the asst. superintendent and the school princiapl to review the report and talk. They then met DS a couple of weeks later and put him in a K and a first grade classroom for part of the day and decided that he should skip K and go to First, which I am supportive of. I didn't ask or push for it (although it was very clear that was one of the many recommendations from the tester who submitted the report). But we also don't have any gifted coordinator in our district or any gifted programming, so I couldn't have contacted them. I think out situation worked out nicely though.

If you aren't interested in doing the private testing just yet, I also know that most schools are required to do a K screening. In our state (NY) they are required to do this screening and required to let the parents and the superintendent know the results of any children that may be gifted (within 10 days). Unfortunately in our state that is where it ends, I don't think they do anything else with the info. Screenings are very basic (colors, shapes, letters, numbers, etc.). Our DS didn't actually take it this year because they said it wouldn't be necessary based on all his testing and info they had on in. At least if they did that testing though, the school would have some idea of what your concerns are. Also, it may be helpful to just have the pre-k teacher write something up and then send it to them and see if you can schedule a meeting or speak with them about it. Maybe check to see if they can do some sort of testing in the fall.

Good luck! Keep us updated!

I tend to agree that at the elementary level it is usually possible and appropriate to differentiate for students who are 1 year ahead (provided teacher is able/willing and there are at least 1-2 peers). The range of ability/acheivement in an elementary classroom is broad, and end of the year standards are generally the minimal level of proficiency for that grade. Many students will demonstrate skills above that level, but still be within the proficient (vs. advanced) range, because they aren't a full year ahead. I do think that all students who are a full year ahead in any subject should have new learning goals stated in writing, and should have those goals evaluated in writing on the same schedule as the report card. Learning goals could be very simple--e.g. a rising second grader who is demonstrating end of year acheivement levels could simply have "will meet 3rd grade level standards in ________". I don't object to having those goals worked on within the context of the 2nd grade classroom (again, depending on teacher/peer situation), and I recognize that that is the reasoning behind trying to identify students who are at least two years ahead before considering grade acceleration.

However, this approach doesn't make sense to me in middle/high school structures. Generally students are switching classes for each subject, and therefore I believe that a student who can pass the end of the year test (at least for a subject as concrete/linear in development as math) should be placed in a class working on the grade standards that they actually need next. If there are a few students, they can be absorbed. If there are many, then one (or more) of the "sixth grade sections" should be converted to a "seventh grade section" (or whatever grade is involved). As to students who test two grades ahead (or more) I still believe that at the middle/high school level they should be placed two years ahead, not just one grade in that subject. The exception would be when a quality honors program is available to all students who meet prerequisite standards. Honors programs, when well planned and delivered, can, I think, sometimes be more effective than acceleration. Unfortunately, the presence of large numbers of students who are "ahead" does not guarantee appropriate instruction (sigh) .