Not sure if that is the appropriate title, but I'm looking at DSs subtest scores and trying to understand what they mean.

I've read posts in which folks are discussing the subtest scores and sound so knowledgeable about them, but I just don't get it. Granted, this was our first experience with testing so I did alot of listening and nodding during the IEP meeting because I thought I understood what was being said, but seeing the understanding that folks here seem to have about the scores tells me I really don't get it.

Do they provide a guide to the strengths/weaknesses that make up the whole? Is the information contained in the numbers of the subtests a clearer picture than the summary? Why are substitutions done? By my DSs scores, I see that the substituted category score was definitely higher than the score it replaced, but how would the tester know to substitute?

Perhaps it's the whole testing process that I don't get yet, and not just the scores. I'm sure that a deeper understanding of all of this won't affect anything, but it sure as heck would make me feel better......I think.

Yes, the subtest scores can be helpful guides to strengths and weaknesses depending on the pattern of the results and the quality of the assessment. Without knowing which test you're referring to or what the scores are it's difficult to say much more than that. If you'd care to share more information perhaps you would get more specific feedback.

Substitutions are usually done in order to assure that the highest score is attained, on the assumption that this is a more accurate assessment of the child's intellectual ability.

Patricia

Thanks for the reply. DS took the WISC-IV and the WIAT-II. The WISC-IV was administered by the school psychologist, the WIAT-II by the gifted ed personnel. The breakdowns follow:


WISC
Verbal Comprehension
Similarities - 18
Vocabulary - 18
Comprehension - 14
(Information) - NA
(Word Reasoning) - NA

Perceptual Reasoning
Block Design - 14*
Picture Concepts - 15
Matrix Reasoning - 18
(Picture Completion) - 16*
Picture Completion substituted for Block Design

Working Memory
Digit Span - 12*
Letter Number Seq - 13
(Arithmetic) - 18*
Arithmetic substituted for Digit Span

Processing Speed
Coding - 12
Symbol Search - 12
(Cancellation) - NA

WIAT
Reading
Word Reading - 136
Reading Comprehension - 145
Pseudoword Decoding - 128

Math
Numerical Operations - 137
Math Reasoning - 149

I understand the the WMI and PSI most likely brought down the FSIQ. I guess I just wonder what the subtests tell me? I know what I think his strengths/weaknesses are, but is there a pattern that I'm not aware of, is he getting the right things based on where his needs fall? <---Just thinking out loud here.

Thanks for your help in understanding all of this.

1. You may want to ask if your child's scores qualified for extended scoring since she got multiple 18's. You can figure it out yourself if you have the raw scores and know her chronological age at the time of the test.

2. What did the assessor give as her index scores on the WISC IV?

Patricia

I don't think I'll ever grasp all of this, LOL!

What is "extended scoring"? He was 8y9m at testing, but the report doesn't have raw scores. I don't know that I'll be meeting with the school psychologist again, we're moving in a few weeks. Dumb question, but would she have kept raw data once it's compiled into the report provided to me (IOW, is there a requirement to do so?)?

When you say "index scores" do you mean the composites? If so, they are VCI-140, PRI-139, WMI-132, PSI-112, and FSIQ-141.

Yes, she should still have the raw scores. I would ask for them since your son scored that high.

Extended scoring is scaled score equivalents for raw scores that exceed the regular scoring tables. Generally if a child scores 18+ on 2 or more subtests then it is worth checking to see if they qualified for higher scores using the extended scoring tables.

I can either tell you the extended scores (once you get the raw scores) or give you a link to the tables for you to figure it out yourself. But if you ask the school psych about it, she should tell you whether she checked that or not. If she didn't she should have and you could insist she do so.

Yes those are the index scores (that's the I in each of the labels).

I'll check a couple things and post again in a little bit. Want to check to see if they should have done a GAI instead of a FSIQ given the difference in the index scores.

Also, were there composite scores for the WIAT? Was it the WIAT II?

Patricia

Thanks for taking the time to explain these things. I appreciate the help in understanding the subtests.

Yes, he took the WIAT-II. The composite scores for both reading and math were 153 (>99.9%).

I'll try to contact the school psychologist to see if I can get the raw data for the WISC-thanks for the tip.

It looks like the examiner could have chosen to use the General Ability Index instead of the FSIQ. When you call her about the raw scores, ask her about that too.

The GAI would be 148 vs. the FSIQ of 141.

Patricia

rlsnights,

can you give the link to the tables to figure out extended scoring just for my information? My DS has subtest scores of 17 so its probably not applicable but I am a numbers geek and would love to understand it

Here's the link to the WISC IV technical report #7 which describes the use of extended norms and has the tables at the end to use. You do have to have your child's raw scores in order to use the tables.

http://pearsonassess.com/NR/rdonlyres/C1C19227-BC79-46D9-B43C-8E4A114F7E1F/0/WISCIV_TechReport_7.pdf

Thanks Patricia!

I actually thought that was the protocol..the decision is made prior.

I'm having technical difficulties with expression today!!

Not to quibble here, but I didn't say substitutions were done post-testing to raise the score - just that that was the usual reason given for doing substitutions.

I agree that substitution post-testing is not the preferred way to handle things and I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with this approach. And it's not clear from the information given whether the substitutions in this case were done a priori or not.

I think there is some controversy about the subject w/in the psych-ed community. Nevertheless there are formula's to use when doing substitutions to adjust for the change - so obviously it's being done, one way or the other.

Even when the substitution is planned in advance, the rational offered for substitution is based on the same assumptions: 1) that the child will perform poorly on the subtests being excluded relative to their expected performance on the substituted subtests and 2) that the better performance is a more accurate assessment of the child's intellectual capacity. While it may not be stated so blatantly, I think higher scores is absolutely the intent of substitution.

We could talk about what constitutes an accurate assessment of intellectual capacity til the cows come home

I too am a little jealous since my son's tester did not make any substitutions and he might have scored higher if she had done so.

FWIW, I think the choice to substitute was made during the testing and not prior to.

I want to say that it had to do with distractions and waning focus on DSs part. I could be mistaken, though. (Forgive my recollection, but there was so much info presented/discussed by a number of folks at the meeting that it all kinda runs together.) I so wish I had found this resource prior to the testing and subsequent meetings, but then again, we just figured he was bright and wouldn't have sought out this type of info anyway. <sigh>

I hope to get the raw scores from the psychologist, not because I feel it will have any impact, but more due to the fact that I like to have an understanding of things like this (and I love numbers).

At least if anyone ever wants to test him again, I'll have more insight into the process and what the results mean.

Here's another question I just thought of - are scores on the various tests administered by the schools provided to parents or only to the schools? I've never received any and I know that he's taken the OLSAT and ITBS. Just curious.

LOL! So, you must know my son.

You know, I knew testing was planned for DS, but didn't know when. I assumed that they would have given me a heads up a day or two prior so I could give DS a heads up. He freely admits to not paying attention when he already knows what's being asked/taught, etc. With a little advance notice DS probably would have focused more knowing that the testing was to help make the school situation better for him. Ah well, things are being done and that's all I really ever hoped for so I can't complain too much.

Hi,

To address your question about the meaning of each subtest-- I have a book in my library (at work) called Assessment of children: Wisc-IV and WPPSI-III supplement by Sattler & Dumont. This explains each subtest in detail.

My son's scores also would have been significantly boosted by substitutions, which were not done.

But it was sort of interesting to run all the different scenarios.

JDAx3, did you son's school do the WISC and WIAT for him? If so I think you are lucky!

Thanks for the book title. I'll have to look at that. And yes, the school did do the WISC and WIAT. We are very pleased with the school and how they are handling things, especially after reading about some of the struggles other parents are dealing with. Every time I read something about school struggles, I'm grateful for DSs teachers and school. My only 'complaint' (not that I would ever look this gift horse in the mouth) is that the testing wasn't completed until January and things weren't put into place until Feb/Mar. BUT, we've got what we needed and at least when we move, we're not starting from scratch.

Oh Dottie! Thanks for that sorely needed giggle! I loved the part about the yawning!