Hi all! This is my first post here though I've been reading for a little while.

We just had my DD7 tested. She is having some behavioral issues in school that we thought might be ADHD and/or anxiety. She is also in the GT screening pool for our school district's GT program (starts in 3rd) and we wanted to have back up scores in case she does not make the first cut. We felt this was necessary because her scores on the school's screening tests, the CogAT and NNAT, were uneven (perfect score on NNAT and 94th%tile composite for CogAT).

WISC IV:

Verbal Comprehension 146
Perceptual Reasoning 139
Working Memory 113
Processing Speed 112
FSIQ 138

VCI:
Similarities 18
Vocab 19
Comprehension 16
(Information) 16

PRI:
Block Design 16
Picture Concepts 15
Matrix Reasoning 18
(Picture Completion) 8

WMI:
Digit Span 12
Letter-Number Sequencing 13
(Arithmetic) 15

PSI:
Coding 9
Symbol Search 15
(Cancellation) 11

The psychologist said she does not have ADHD but the gap between her VCI/PRI and WMI/PSI scores probably caused her great frustration in school. Also she could benefit from more differentiation, but the school claims they are already differentiating as much as they can before the GT program.

The psychologist recommended she see a therapist to help with her behavioral issues (which she says are due to neurological and self-regulatory immaturity) and an OT to help with controlling her reactions to stimuli and help with the writing.

I'm wondering if anyone else's kid has had a similar score profile and what their kid's school experience looked like. I worry that in the GT program they will expect the kids to be fast workers and while she is fast perceptually and cognitively, not so much on the writing.

Hi, I only have a second to write, but my 6-yr-old son's score profile is almost exactly the same. It really is pretty common around here.

He also has lots of problems in school-- and seems similarly overexcitable to what you are describing.

Is the school offering her a space in the GT program? She probably is bored in the regular class, and even with the relatively lower WMI and PRI she would probably do fine.

Do you think she WANTS more challenge?

We find out later this month if she made the first cut. We have until June to appeal, and we would appeal based on her WISC (which was not available when we made the initial application).


I'm sure she is bored. The curriculum moves pretty slowly, especially math, which is one of her strongest areas. She;s in the top reading group and they are re-reading stuff she had in first grade because they only have so many books for the advanced reading group.


Well, hard to say. I know she would like a faster, more challenging curriculum. I'm not sure she would prefer more homework and more writing, which is what I hear the GT program has.

Based on that info, it looks good for her admittance, I wish you good luck. If it were me, I'd appeal also, if she is not admitted.

All GT programs are different. Will her lower WMI and processing scores hang her up? There is only one way to find out, have her try it. You can always take her out.

She's so strong in VCI and PRI that the WMI and processing speed may never *show* up as an issue.

We are having our first experience with gifted programming this year for math. It's 95% problem solving, 5% arithmetic and a lot of homework. Personally, I think it's an excessive amount. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't fight to get in her in if that's the position we were in. Alternatively, I also wouldn't have known it wasn't worth fighting for until we saw what it was after she was in it.

Does that help, or is it more confusing?

Hi - your daughter's scores are very similar to my son's (turning 10 in May). There was a 44-point spread among the four composite scores, even before the extended norms were applied. (By the way, he scored a 97 on the OLSAT, which his public school used for GT screening.)

About school: we had him tested during his second year of public school, because it was going very badly and I was considering homeschooling. Long story short: the principal tried two grade skips, which together were disastrous because the challenge was still insufficient in certain subjects (esp. math), ds wasn't ready socially, and the receiving teachers were either suspicious of his abilities or indifferent to his needs.

We moved him to a small private school that specializes in gifted ed. and has a very flexible curriculum. He's finishing his 3rd year there and announces almost every day, 'I love today!'.

If you'd like to compare notes further, please ask! Our children's profiles are quite similar.

Hope this helps -

Yes, true. The one good thing about our GT program is once you are in, you are in. And you can move in and out at will through middle school.


I have issues with too much homework, but she would probably enjoy more math homework (vs more reading homework). Math is her favorite subject and she gets very, very frustrated with how slow the curriculum moves. She was causing problems during "math warm-up" (review) and the teacher finally let her do other stuff instead.


Her poor social skills and relatively low processing skills make me very wary of a grade skip.



Private school is not an option for us. We cannot afford it. DH was laid off in November and I am a SAHM-looking to re-enter the work force. He is consulting and making enough for us to live on, but it is very high COL here and we cannot commit to the price of private around here ($15K+ for elementary).

I would love to homeschool her, but DH does not agree. The testing may make him re-think that, but more than that I need to find a full-time job with benefits.

And in re-reading my original post, I see I forgot to mention that she is in second grade and that she is young for grade (August birthday with a September 30th cutoff).

I find that this time of year is hardest for our girls in school. I'm guessing that they are doing mostly review and not learning too much new and interesting.

Beth, my children are currently dual enrolled which means they take language arts seperately from the school and are at the school for lunch, recess, specials, science/social studies and math.

I've found that they can enjoy school as long as they get to work at their own pace in challenging material part of the day. For them, that's the part that they are at home.

Honestly, my youngest is liking this, my oldest would like to go to school only for math!


There is no easy answer, but traditionally this time of year has been really tough on our kids and I see behavior issues at home, not at school. I think that has to do with their teacher pleaser personalities.

I hope your DD can hang in the rest of the year and can benefit from the gifted programming next year.

Good luck with the job search, these are truly tough times...


Neato

You have my sympathy, Beth! I hope you have better luck than we did with teachers - in my experience it all comes down to them, especially if you're not planning on seeking a skip (I understand your reasons for that).

Is her current teacher willing to let her do different math? If so, you could offer to provide and correct it yourself, so as to avoid creating extra work for the teacher. (That is, if YOU have the time for it!) Same goes for other subjects too, of course - can your daughter bring books from home for silent / free reading times?

Another thought - is subject acceleration used at the school? It was the first thing ds's school tried with him (in kindergarten, he went to 2nd every day for reading), and it did give some relief from the boredom of 'letter of the week'. If the G/T program doesn't start till 3rd, and (more importantly) if it is as limited as at ds's school -- only 30 min./week each for reading and math -- subject acceleration is essential for a child as gifted as your dd.

One other thought: you say that she has poor social skills. Is that with kids her own age, or with ALL people?

Many HG+ kids do poorly socially with age-mates. It's not uncommon. Sometimes their social skills improve dramatically when they are placed with kids the same intellectual age as they are. That's not a blanket true statement, but it is something to consider, I think.

Have you tried her with older kids academically or socially? How does she respond? Does she have any friends older than she is?

I'd start there if you haven't already. You might find that her immaturities are really manifestations of her frustrations with people who "don't speak her language," and that she behaves like a much older child around older children.

If not, then a grade skip is definitely a bad idea, I'd say. But I wouldn't necessarily rule out the skip until you try her with older kids.

FWIW...

That sounds terrific! Unfortunately that is not an option in our district.


I believe they start this in 3rd grade. Right now she gets a math pullout one day a week where they do logic puzzles and introduction to more advanced concepts, but that's it. And just to make things more complicated her regular teacher is actually out on maternity leave and will be gone until the first of May. We have had several issues with the long term sub, but I think things may finally be settling down.


You know, that's a good question. She actually is at her worst with younger kids and kids around her own age. She does pretty well with kids a fair bit older than her, say 11/12 (she is 7). She gets along great with the 6th grade older sister of one of her friends. Adults do often find her behavior frustrating in groups, but one on one she does very well. It's more that in group and/or chaotic situations she gets all riled up and then can't seem to get herself back under control.

Hmmm...That leads me to believe that she's not immature, but merely frustrated with kids who are not her intellectual peers. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it says to me that you might want to consider a grade skip.

Consider how a 7yo would act if she were cooped up with 4yos (or 5yos or whatever) all day, expected to play with them and do the same work they are doing. She might act out a bit, right? That's probably sort of how she feels in a regular classroom.

Have you read "A Nation Deceived?"

http://www.nationdeceived.org/

It's free, and it's well-researched. You might want to take a look at it before you decide that a grade skip is wrong for her. It may be wrong for her, of course, but I think it's good to get the facts before you make that call.

(Full disclosure: we chose to homeschool rather than to grade skip our HG+ son. So I'm not a grade skip pusher. LOL!)

Thanks. We had a house full of guests all weekend.

I have read The Nation Deceived Report. And I do believe, I'm just not so it's even worth going there with the school. Plus I think the idea of a skip like that might freak DD out as well.

I do have a more technical WISC follow-up question though. MIL was here over the weekend. She used to be a school psychologist and said the psychologist we used did not use the Arithmetic subscore to calculate her WPI which brought it down. Anyone know why she might have chosen to do that?

Dottie, thanks for your feedback. That is interesting. I wonder why they changed the scoring like that.