I have a 7th grade daughter who recently took the SAT and got a 1920 (660 in math, 650 in writing, 610 in reading), which I saw was in the 90% among high school students, and in the 98+% among 95% 7th graders. Now, the dilemma comes in when I realize that my child was denied access into the gifted program 4 times in her middle school years. She became very discouraged, and only the prodding from her teachers to keep trying (because they disagreed with the results) made her try again, in the year when she was finally accepted. She always got 99% on 1 year above level reading and math tests that were used for admissions, but always fell short on the nonverbal tests. A couple of weeks ago, we got cogat results from this year. She got 149 on quantitative, 140 on verbal, and 121 on nonverbal, the highest she had ever gotten on that section. Besides the nonverbal, those seem like "gifted" scores. But, the fact remains that it took 5 years of easy elementary school curriculum to be atmitted into a program that still is not very hard. What's your take on this? And what do you think about the nonverbal? Do you think her IQ would be lower because of the nonverbal weakness?

You needed three out of six test scores above 130 or 98% to get in. A lot of the scores were around 127 or 116 at the lowest.

Those scores exceed the required qualifying DYS SAT scores for 7th (and 8th?). If she tests at or above 145 on an individual IQ test, you should definitely submit an application on her behalf.

Also, there is another organization through Johns Hopkins called SET. I don�t know much about it, except that they are arguably even more selective than DITD. Admittance is based on a child achieving a 700 or higher on either the math or verbal portion of the SAT before age 13. If your daughter is still 12, you may want to sign her up for the SAT once more to see if she can break 700 in either area. They don�t require the IQ score from what I understand.

Would it be possible (or desirable) for her to take some high school classes next year when she is in 8th grade?

If you are wondering if the lower nonverbal would result in non-qualifying IQ test for DYS, you should know that they accept verbal, non-verbal or full scale. Even if she doesn�t test high enough for non-verbal, she could still be considered based on verbal alone.

Good luck to you and your family.

She's 13, and won't take it again next year. Then again, we have until November. I don't think I know how to get individual IQ testing. Can someone explain this?

Didn't Grinity post a link a while back that had SAT percentiles?
I'd be interested in how the SAT 11th grade percentiles compare to the MAP 11th grade percentiles.

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_2008.pdf

I found this for the SAT percentile ranks. Her scores put her a bit lower percentile wise than the MAP (88% math, 90% writing, and 82% reading). I wonder if part of that difference is that MAP includes both college bound and non-college bound, while the SAT is weighted more to college bound students?

More afterthoughts...
Sounds like you daughter is a prime example of this point:
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=960
You may also want to consider private testing with a psychologist who specializes in gifted children. This link has good information about that route. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm

Great scores! Just in case dd wants to try for SET, it is not too late. Kids over 13 need an additional 10 points for every month over 13.

It's a shame that your dd has such abilities yet hasn't been recognized or encouraged at school. Is she happy there? Have you considered a change, to another school or possibly homeschooling?

Their really are not any great opportunities as far as private schools, and though she has asked me before, I do not think homeschooling will end up happening with work and all.

This paper says SAT-V > 630 places her in > 99.99% group.

http://carrefoursagesse.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/the-cognitive-profile-of-the-precocious-student/

And:

"Finally, an interesting trend was revealed. The presence of exceptionally high verbal ability appeared to increase the likelihood of the presence of high mathematical ability."

She may not have had the exposure to mathematically intermediate topics that would allow her to perform at a much higher level. Most math knowledge is not readily available like good books are. Most people get their math via school and not via self-study and ability at math is suppressed in girls due to social pressures. I imagine most kids who > 700 on the SAT-M have had the full two years of Algebra, another of geometry, another of analytical geometry/pre-calc - or at least a good exposure to all the above.

In addition, if she is not in a Latin program or has not had exposure to classic English lit, then that would retard her scores on the SAT-V.

All in all, very impressive.

Right now her education sounds random rather than focused, but she wants more. I think that is a good sign.

She probably flies through her regular homework as if she was born knowing it.

Why not home school after school? Pick a subject, get the curriculum, then have her work through it. If she can handle that, then add another.

( She may be able to sneak her books into class and work on that while the rest of the class does their thing as I was able to. )

Thanks. What did the recentering do and what was the effect?

Did they renorm the ACT, GRE, GMAT and the PSAT as well?

That's a big change on the SAT, especially at the higher end. I took the SAT twice before renorming but my scores did not change much. I would have 800s today. Sort of puts things in perspective when I hear about perfect SATs today.

I know that the GRE has changed in the last year (similar changes as the SAT) and that the MCAT changed dramatically. I wonder if those changes were to raise scores as well...

I was just wondering, what does the CogAT composite score mean? Our school also gave us that, but it is not the average of the 3. It seems really high for a composite.

Okay, so you think a composite of 145 would be accurate for the scores I listed at the beginning? What can this be used for? Do you think it might correlate to something?

I guess I understand it, thanks!

She's feeling really discouraged about the whole thing, because these people she is scoring way above now beat her into the program up until 5th grade, when they let her in. (apparently it was super fun in elementary school and now its fun, but not incredible) She really feels like she missed out. Based on the 660 SAT, do you think skipping Algebra I would be appropriate? She also took an online Texas state released EOC Algebra I test from 2002. She almost got a perfect score. (silly mistakes on the 2 she missed). That can be accessed on something like ritter.tea.org, but you should definitely google it if you want to find it cause if went on forever. Scroll to the near bottom of the page, past the TAKS tests. Do you think this score should be counted reliable?

I think I figured out the problem shes been having!! I believe I posted once about her eyesight being horrible (off the charts bad). She revealed to me once that she was unable to see for a long time and was too scared to tell me. I got a report that she broke down crying when she couldn't read the "E" at the school test in 2nd grade. I was thinking- what if that could have been the problem! Can not being able to see cause a problem like low scores? She had horrible double vision so I imagine reading must have been horrible for her, plus, I believe some of the years had manipulatives that measured there "Puzzle abilities." Only in 5th grade did she not have extreme growth between eye exams- and thats the time her scores started to perk up!!!!! I know this is a long shot, but it always could be the answer.

My just turned 9 year old son has eye issues too. I was told by the psychologist and the optometrist who specializes in vision therapy that his scores were way low (overall 121 IQ) even though he tested verbally gifted due to processing speed. He has such a slow processing speed due to his eye problems, that it brought down his overall IQ. Even with these problems he just tested at 11th grade reading level, 13th grade reading speed, with a 90% comprehension (on vision testing)!. I too am wondering where exactly he would test if he could actually use both eyes at the same time. He turns one off and then the other very rapidly while reading etc., to avoid double vision, since his brain can't fuse the two images together. He has had surgery 2 times and had previously gone to vision therapy.
I definitely think you are going along the correct path when wondering if her eyes were the problem. I whole heartedly say YES!
You can read about my son under 'need help with scores' and 'trouble following directions'.