Hi all! In addition to being a parent, I am also a teacher (first grade). I have an interesting situation this year w/a VERY gifted student and wondered what advice you'd give to parents.

This child (6 w/a late summer bday) stood out from the beginning of the year as being very advanced. He is several grade levels above in reading but REALLY stood out in math, where it was quite hard to pinpoint where he actually was b/c our 1st grade testing doesn't go that high. I encouraged parents to have him tested for our gifted program (they use the CoGat), but they hesitated b/c they weren't sure how it would change things for him in the school. I offered to look at moving him up a grade for math but, again, they weren't interested b/c they felt like he would feel awkward. He is a VERY easygoing child who gets along well with all kids and never, ever complains. He tells his parents that he loves school and is happy. I have been on a mission to do something for him, though, b/c it is obvious to me that he is exceptional. So, at PT conferences I really, really encouraged the parents to have him tested for our gifted program. I think they may think I'm pushy but they said yes.

Our GT coordinator did test him and found out that not only was he 99% in math on the CoGat but his math achievement data show him working at a 9th grade level in math!

What advice would you all, who have been down this road, give to parents? We just got the results back. I have already told them (b/c I know how lacking groups ability tests can be) that I would recommend that they have him privately tested (they can afford it). Besides giving them info about DYS, is there anything else I could suggest to them? I think that they know he is smart, but I don't know that they realize yet how much they will have to advocate for him in his school career. Thanks!

The achievement test was the Woodcock Johnson. I haven't seen the scores, just read the results in an e-mail that the (very shocked) gifted coordinator sent me. I think you are right that I need to let them make a decision, but I also am wondering what kind of choices they even have. It will be interesting to see what our district offers them. We will be meeting with the gifted coordinator for our district to discuss options b/c they are very limited within our school.

I think they're VERY lucky to have a teacher like you! Everything you've done so far is so wonderful! Pat yourself on the back, will you? The world needs more teachers like you.

I agree that you should let them process. But do check in with them, see if they have questions or want to talk about it, make sure they're not buying into myths about acceleration, etc. I think you have to be a "guide on the side" rather than a "sage on the stage" for this one. But I suspect they will want that guidance at some point!

What I would appreciate as a parent, is for you to keep me informed of all his options and for you to say, "ANYTHING you need of me for recommendations or educational opportunities, let me know". Then back off a while. Keep in touch to let them know how he is doing and remind them ocassionaly that you are available to be a sounding board or for recommendations.

That's my opinion, and could be influenced by what I think is my GS9's counselor overstepping boundaries.

I agree, OHG. Being present and available but not pushy is best, I think.

These are very good ideas. The parents have told me repeatedly that they do appreciate all I have done for him this year. I just think they are a little in GT denial--they say things like, "yes he is smart, but we just want him to be happy" and "we know he is smart, but there are a lot of smart kids in the class" Well, we have one other child ID'd GT and he is MG, like 95%. They volunteer about once a week in the class during math time so they know the reality. But they are always so positive and complimentary of all the kids in the class.

I will be very curious to see what his options are.

I never make him do the regular class math--I always create extensions for him but they still do not reach his level and he breezes through everything I give him. What he needs is an entirely different curriculum. He does play the math games with the other kids and really enjoys them, even though he's not "learning" anything new, just as we might enjoy playing a mindless game like "Crazy Eights." I guess I worry how long he is going to remain happy when there is never any challenge for him.

His mom told me he was loving the testing--probably b/c it's the first time this year he's done something really hard!

And I would never post the real scores b/c I know they could end up here. When I get them maybe I can PM you Dottie and see what you think. Thanks for your advice.

My DS is going into 1st grade next year and I would pay seriously large volumes of cash to have him in your class! You sound like an amazing person and a fabulous teacher!

As a teacher myself, I would continue to find ways to stretch my curriculum to include him. I know 1st grade is tough. Do you have a computer in the classroom? Could he work independently on computer software for math in particular? Also- as for games, perhaps you can up the ante for all the kids and introduce more strategy games like chess, battleship or even Parcheesi.

As a parent, I'd want you to really understand how we are struggling with the balance between feeling challenged and happiness. Our biggest concern on a daily basis is that balance. If they're not ready to "push" him and he's not really looking for it or acting out, it might be okay to just give them the space they need.

I'd recommend a few books for you- Teaching Gifted Kids in the Regular Classroom by Susan Winebrenner and A Love for Learning: Motivation and the Gifted Child by Carol Strip Whitney; Ph.D are two that might really help you out!

Hi Mom2boys,
I agree - you've done really well. Also, the '9th grade level' on the achievement test can be really misleading...my best understanding (Dottie, please correct me if I'm wrong) is: He did as well as a 9th grader would be expected to do if being given a test designed for 1st graders.

I think that your primary responsibility lies inside the working within the classroom with the Gifted Coordinator. In other words... come up with some ideas, and then get the GC to agree and work with the parents to get them to agree.

What do I think you should work on with the GC to propose? I think 'end of year' assesments of each grade level in Math and Language arts to see if there is a way to send him to a grade level Math class where he will learn. Alternative is to do an online self paced Math curriculum. For LA I would ask the parents what his 'special interests' are, and encourage him to write about those special interests and report back to an appropriate audience. If he loves Science, and you have the time, perhaps gather a multi-grade group of kids together to do a science fair project. If abstract thinking is his thing, then 'Odesey of the Mind' or similar type of program. I reccomend the book 'Re-forming Gifted Education' for a look at the extracurricular suggestions. Perhaps he would like to compete in a Spelling or Geography Bee. I think that Independent Study inside your classroom is something that no parent could object to.

Actually you could invite them here. You can change your nickname if needed.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Brainstorm:
Since the parents are in the classroom every week already, can you get them to work with a group of you 'best students' while their son is doing something else? Let them try to teach a bit, and there is a chance that that will thaw their denial a bit.

Do BOTH parents volunteer in the classroom? That would be unusual in my son's school, and I'll bet it isn't the norm where you live either. If so I'll take a wild guess and say that they probably believe, as I once did, that their son is doing so well academically because they are such involved and loving parents. ((shrug))

Another idea is to have a meeting with the parents to learn from them what the tester suggests for school modifications. Letting them tell you might be just the thing.

Smiles,
Grinity

I thought the Woodcock Johnson tested actual grade level achievement? Does it use stanines? Which tests will test actual levels? Is the only option out-of-level testing?

Thanks,
Kate

Ah! Thanks, Dottie, for the clarification. This is an important distinction I will keep in mind for ds's future testing needs.

Dottie, you now have me VERY curious. I e-mailed my colleague and although I didn't get specific information--I'll have to wait until I go to work and see the test--it looks as if he did not score 9th grade across the board. He scored at the 9th grade on 2 out of 3 subtests. She said that he tested at 6th grade on the third subtest because he is not yet fluent with multiplication and division of larger numbers. That could be the fluency piece. But, I'll look into it.

mom2boys, That kid sounds a fair bit like my son. A happy kid who enjoyed the, as he put it, "hustle and bustle of a regular day at school." I helped out and knew he was ahead of other kids, but also saw how happy he was. He was fortunate to have teachers like you who made adjustments in their curriculum to challenge him. He did start a few hour a week pull-out program in 1st grade which he enjoyed. He is 13 and in 7th grade; he was never grade accelerated, but is subject accelerated to High School for math. I do think that there are some kids in some circumstances for whom this will work. You may have found one! But I agree that if you can reinforce how remarkable he is it may help the parents know what to do should he become restless in his classroom somewhere in the future.

A couple of other questions. CAMom, I LOVE the computer idea! We have 3 great computers in our classroom and don't use them as much as we should. What websites do you all recommend? We have a couple of math websites but they are geared toward primary and too easy for him. Thanks also for the book suggestions!

And, yes, both parents volunteer during math time. Again, they DO realize that he is smart. I'm sure that's why they chose to volunteer during math. And they do work with the "highest" kids in class, so they know but maybe just haven't totally faced it. I think their denial is related to just HOW advanced he is and how much they are going to have to advocate for him. Perhaps because this is their first experience with the public school system.

They made a point of giving me his report card from K prior to the beginning of the year and his K teacher (from private school) made it quite clear that he was an advanced child. We do early assessment so we test all our kids (in reading) prior to the first day of school. I approached his mom before school began to let her know that I was aware he was advanced and would work to meet his needs. But, when a child is as "out there" as he is, it is tough, especially in math. In reading, I stopped at 3rd grade b/c his ability to synthesize information and reflect on text (for example, state the most important event or summarize concisely) was advanced but not at the level a teacher would expect of a fourth grader. He was perfectly happy all fall to read transitional chapter books. He is in a reading group by himself because no one else in my class is at his level. Now that there is one child approaching end of third grade level, he has moved on and is no longer interested in transitional fiction. So he now chooses to read more challenging novels. He is on his own but seems happy. When I told his mom in the fall about his reading score, she laughed and said, "we're not so worried about reading, just wait until you test him in math!" So they do know.

Again, as CAMom said, I think what has really fueled their resistance to testing this year is the fact that he is so happy. At the beginning of the year, I asked them quite frequently if he were happy. Eventually, his mom said, "Well, we have been asking him every day if he's happy at school and he finally told us, very annoyed, 'Why do you keep asking me that? School is FUN!" Enough said. So, they stopped asking. I guess I want to set things up for the rest of elementary, though, because I really think that the older the child gets, the less flexibility there is and the more the teaching becomes all about the content. That's when I think he's going to look around and say, "Oh my gosh, school stinks!" Or at least that's my fear.

Those of you who have kids who are older, did you see your child become more disillusioned with school as he/she got older? I'm terrifed b/c I have a son who I believe is on the lower side of HG but he already hates school. If he hates school at preK I think we're in BIG trouble!

My DS, who sounds just like the kid in your class, has always been very happy. But he will report to me about very specific issues that he has having. In third grade, he started to get really bored with math. I encouraged him to speak with the teacher and she got him working on 4th grade math. That paved the way for him accelerating faster and now he is in HS math as a 7th grader. In 5th grade he got really fed up with a boring required English curriculum that took a couple hours a day. It was a biggish deal to get him out of that one, but with the support of the teacher, we were able to do it. He has always been really good about asking for what he needs and because he is generally so happy and able to ask for things clearly and pleasantly and becuase we have been very lucky in the teachers we have had, the teachers have always taken his requests very seriously.

BTW, one of the best things that our teachers did for DS was to make sure that the teacher he was getting the next year was a good "fit" for him. The result is that we have had teachers that really understood and appreciated our son. This has made a world of difference and would not have been possible without the input of teachers that enjoyed our DS.

Choosing teachers carefully has been the thing that has help up the most as well. Ask the principal if the parents can observe next years teachers, then make the recommendation yourself. If they aren't willing to accelerate at all, at least you may through careful intervention keep the boy in the hands of teachers who are willing to do what they can for him.

I wonder if some "fun" math books would be of use? We have liked Demi's "One Grain of Rice," Anno Mitsumasa's "Anno's Magic Seeds," Kathryn Lasky's "The Librarian who Measured the Earth", Julia Diggins's "String, Straightedge, and Shadow," Theoni Pappas's books (Penrose the Mathematical Cat, etc.), David Schwartz's books (G is for Googol, On Beyond a Million, etc.), Denise Schmandt-Besserat's "The History of Counting," Malba Tahan's "The Man Who Counted," Glory St. John's "How to Count like a Martian," and various other things (oh, and I mustn't forget "The Number Devil" by Hans Magnus Enzensberger!). (Somewhere around here there's a thread where St. Pauli Girl linked to a great list of these kinds of books, and how they could be used in the classroom, if I'm remembering right.) You might also look at Julie Brennan's Living Math site, if this sort of thing is of any interest (www.livingmath.net)

Something Harpo has been enjoying is some of the MEP stuff from the CIMT (I'm horrible with acronyms, but I think it's Mathematics Enhancement Programme from the Centre for Innovative Mathematics Teaching--it's a pilot project run from the University of Plymouth, based on {I think} the Hungarian national curriculum). Some of it is password-protected, but all it takes is an email to them, and they very kindly provide it. Harpo had great fun with the logic stuff from year seven (equivalent to our grade six, I think), as well as the code stuff (on the links page--material developed in concert with the folks at Bletchley Park). I've printed it off, because I don't like the kids staring at screens (personal hangup), but some of the things are interactive and can be done online. Overall, this is mathematics approached quite differently than it often is in North America, and might be worth a look.

I can't usually make links work (bad karma or just ignorance, I'm not sure), but I'll give it a try:
www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

Something I mentioned in another thread might also be a fun project for an advanced math pupil--Harpo really enjoyed some computational linguistics puzzles I turned up a while back. You might give this site a peek and see what you think: www.naclo.cs.cmu.ed/index.php

Goodness, I hope some of those are clickable!

peace
minnie

Edited to add: in re: the password--I explained that I was a homeschooler in Canada, and asked if I might have the password, which they very kindly provided. I should clarify that I don't know what their criteria for giving the password out actually are. I do believe that there's a Yahoo group (which I've not investigated) for people teaching this curriculum, and that the password is also available there, but I don't know this of my own knowledge.

Get him started on Aleks
www.aleks.com
It will give him a diagnostic test and is self paced, so excellent for a classroom situation.
Some private history - DS attended private school since pre-K. Was always very anxious, worried, who knows what about it.
Private school was testing kids yearly beginning in 2nd grade. DS was always 99%. Fast forwad to 4th grade. Gets " normal" home room teacher who finally tells us that our son is way above other kids and we should try to do more for him.
We have decided to move him to a charter school that promised to teach him to his ability. On his math diagnostic test he "tested out of high school" ( I do not know what test it was).
So the school has put him in Algebra I since he has never taken any advanced math courses nor has he been taught by us at home.
Looking back, it was a mistake. I would reccomend pre-Algebra course for all young math whizards. If taught properly, it gives the review of all the important math needed for Algebra I. DS did Ok, but it was stressful for the first semester. Here was a child who never did any operations on fractions (how the heck did he score out of HS???), and homework was a HUGE time consuming project every evening! He did manage to finish that class as a top student anyway, but the beginnings were hard. He is now in pre-calc as an 8th grader and will run out of math courses at HS in a year. Not a bright idea to look at.
Have a look at
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php

Thanks for all your great suggestions! As it turns out, our GT coordinator at our school gave him the Woodcock Johnson for reading, he was at mid-6th for 2 of the three scores and 4.8 for comprehension. The math test was a different achievement test which she prefers. It put him at 9.8 and 9.9 on general math concepts and applied math and 6.8 for operations b/c of the timing factor (he was given 15 seconds to answer each timed problem). Looking at the test was unreal. All scores were 99.9%. On some sections he got every question right. So, we met with parents today and they did not seem terribly surprised by the results although I tried to emphasize how unusual this is. At first, they talked about what a good preschool teacher he had had and how she had taught him fractions. I told them that, yes, a good preschool teacher could foster his love for numbers but that no preschool teacher could "teach" a ND child to add/subtract fractions with unequal denominators in his head!! (which he can do)

Anyway, our principal has offered to provide some tutoring until the end of the year but we will meet with the GT coordinator for the district to help plan for next year and the future. I told the parents that we wanted to be available to them because I'm sure they will have questions as they begin to digest all this information. I did not yet give them info about DYS because I had given them one article off of Hoagies about different types of testing he was given and they told me it had been "a little overwhelming."

I figured I will wait a while for them to adjust to what we have already shared before I throw more information at them!

I will look into the math websites. That is a great idea! Thanks for all the advice!