Hi...my first post.

DS6 is having his first WISC soon. He will also have an achievement test at a later date. Last year he was at a montessori and they were impressed with his abilities. He learned multiplication and complained daily that he wanted to move on to harder work but the teacher told us she needed to focus on the kids who were slower.

This year, against the advice of his pediatrician, psychologist, teachers and principal, I enrolled him in public kindergarten. He hasn't learned anything he didn't know three years ago.

We are planning an IQ and achievement test this month so we can figure out what we're dealing with and help him accordingly. The problem is that, again, he hasn't learned a thing this year and is artificially stunted at the public K level. I don't know if he even remembers multiplication! How is he going to perform well on the achievement test? He learns what I teach him almost before the words are out of your mouth. I'm worried that with normal achievement scores the school won't respond to our advocacy efforts. Does anyone know anything about this? Should I hothouse him over the next three weeks? It seems so unethical.

IMO, this would not be hot housing--it would be refreshing his memory. If your son resists I would stop but I can already predict that he will probably be excited to relearn some more challenging concepts. I doubt you will even need to give him more than simple prompting for multiplication. Good luck!

My ds7 just took the WISC IQ test and there was no math questions in it. In a couple months, he will be taking the achievement test. I asked my psychologist what I should do to prepare him. He said just review the topics of math with him.

My ds was way ahead in math before KG. Just like your son, he did not learn anything in KG and I did not push it. In first grade, I couldn't wait for the school to differentiate, so I started supplementing him. It took me at least few weeks to bring him up to speed.

O.k. Wow. Thanks for the recommendations. I will bring him back up to speed. Do either of you know where I can get appropriate materials? He knows all of the K sight words. I read to him every night. I've gone through "What your kindergartner needs to know." by E.D. Hirsch. Where do I look for more? I have about one month.

I mean to be clear: I'm not asking for possible test questions. I'm looking to move forward with his education so that we can accurately assess what he's capable of learning. We haven't been doing any formal educating whatsoever because he finishes the entire month's homework packet in less than ten minutes. I have feared that teaching him ahead would cause more problems/boredom in the classroom so I've limited working with him to looking up particular areas of interest and answering his daily questions.

I'm glad you are going to give Afterschooling a try. I let this fear limit what would have come naturally to me with my son, and it still didn't help, it only made it harder for the school to understand what kind of learner he really is. And it gave him the message that 'academics aren't really that important.' We had him memorizing the lyrics to every Simon and Garfunkle song out of timidity! It took a few years to correct this mistake for us, but I predict it will only take a week or two for you!

And yes, you will have to face that he won't learn anything in school, but he isn't anyway.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I hope my question doesn't sound accusitory. this is pure curiosity (or pieces to the larger puzzle) ,

why did you decide to enroll your son in public K despite the advice? do you feel like your edicational options were limited?

It sounds like you may have had a compelling reason to go against advice from several parties who have some knowledge of your son...

Also, is there a reason he started in kindergarten instead of first grade?

For resources on what they should know by X grade I have seen some workbooks in Barnes and Nobles. They have a whole section dedicated to this. If I am not mistaken, they are by subject area and then further broken down by grade. I don't know how good they are but you might be able to browse them and get an idea of what they are learning.

We did it to save money. Private school starts at 10K where I live. The stress public school has caused us has not been worth the savings. Huge huge huge mistake and it won't happen again. Just trying to get through the rest of the year.

The reason that he started K instead of first is that everyone that I spoke with (school district, vice princicpal...) was very upset at the insinuation that DS6 is smart. The vp responded with "all the kids here are smart." I tried to talk to a few other moms about my dilemma and encountered rage in response. Even my family members have reacted angrily. My older cousin said, "I think he's smart but not that smart." She played a game with him that he had never seen along with her two kids who are both older. He creamed everyone. She told me, "He's played this before." I said, "No, he hasn't. Honey, have you played this before?" He said, "No." She said, "Yes he has, I can tell." Her husband sarcastically told me, "Everyone's kid is smart...everyone's kid is good looking, aren't they?"

This is certainly one way to find out who your friends are!

Wow, you really got a taste of it didn't you? Let me guess; all student's even out by third grade too. My husband has heard the same comments of everyone's kid is smart and good looking from peers at work. He has just learned not to share, so when we go into the office and the peers are asking our DD simple questions they are always shocked she answers them correctly. Just makes me laugh because they have no idea. But I think more than anything it is the competition game. Your cousin doesn't want to admit that another child could be smarter than hers which means they are the ones with the problem of not wanting to believe any child is smarter or better looking than theirs. I personally would love to meet a child smarter than mine. It would be refreshing.

But on the other info about public vs. private... I hope you aren't thinking that just because it is private your problems will be over. Just like public school there are many levels of private. But I will have my fingers crossed that sending him to private will mean they teach him what he needs and not limit him. Here is to hoping.

Yikes!


BIG HUGS TO YOU!

It is such a huge decision already! Balancing your kids needs against finances. So tough! My son will be old enough to go to K next fall which would save us big money over his current Montessori. But then, would it be worth it in the end? Sigh
I am not in your shoes yet but I kinda know how you must feel.

You know, we do the best we can at the time. I am sure if you knew then (at the start of K) what you know now.... Hindsight is 20/20 and all that...

And on to top of it friends and realtives giving you grief instead of support. bah!

Anyway, hang in there. There is a lot of support on this board.

I guess the right thing to do is to approach the school administration with IQ test and achievement test score. That will force them to do something about your child without them laughing at your face.

I believe most people on this board have experienced what you went through. You are not the only one.

Good luck!

Someone correct me if I am wrong ... but approaching the school administration for an IQ test and achievement test does not guarantee they will do anything. This falls under state laws doesn't it? Or is it district level?

I think it varies widely by state and school district.

O.k. Reeeeaaaally bad news.

I have begun afterschooling DS6 and I am distressed at what I'm seeing. His english is fine. I've always done lit and poetry but now I'm going over reading comp and things are fine. I'm made sight word flashcards from the jan brett sight and he has 60 now. He's not as interesting in reading as he used to be, though. I don't get it. It's clear that I'm no where near his limits though. So, we have a lot of work to do.

The bad news is this: he has totally forgotten math. Like I said, last year he was up to multiplication but at his new school, they are still learning 0-5 very very well. Gulp. When I went through the workbooks, he can barely do sequencing any more, and got quiet when I asked him to do subtraction. What is going on?

Here's the crush: He told me that he feels like the stupidest kid in class. He said that he has trouble listening. I am so upset that I can't think straight. How could this be happening? The smartest kid in class to the slowest? I'm so confused.

I am going through some old work from montessori and it is beautiful. Beautiful writing, beautiful drawings, correct answers on his math problems. Where did my little boy go?

he's there I'm sure, but it does sound like you have work to do. Maybe approach math from a more play-based angle for now to tempt him back into it. Math fact sheets had my ds8 thinking he was not good at math- now that we have been de-emphasizing that stuff he is all over geometry, etc.
Don't ignore the trouble listening though. This could be boredom, or another learning issue which will need to be followed up on.

I agree that the trouble listening could be boredom if it's too far beneath where he is. I also agree about playing more games (War w/ multi/div cards, add/sub cards, Chutes and ladders but no counting aloud, only adding). We also play Chutes and Ladders where you use two dice and can subtract or add them to put yourself in a better position. We even use negative numbers to go backwards if that puts you in a better position. My son enjoys the game w/ the two 12-sided dice and 3 6-sided dice. You multiple the two 12-sided dice and must use the 6-sided dice to get as close as you can to the target number using add/sub/multi/div/squares/cubes/roots etc.

My son regressed greatly in math in K. I just had to make sure to play games with him regularly. Now he's back to figuring out multi and div facts on his own.

Have you done the IQ test yet? IQ test does not have math, so I think you can safely test it first.

Is it a school psychologist or is it a private psychologist? Can you delay the achievement appointment to give him a chance to catch up with his math? If you want, you might want to delay both IQ and achievement test appointments if confidence is an issue.

Calm down! I think he can do it but you might need more time than just a few weeks. He has lost his confidence. That will take some time to build it back up.

Yes, thank you all. I have slept on it and I don't feel as panicked. The best thing to come out of this is that DH is no longer in denial about how bad public ed is. He was truly shocked by the fact that DS6 can no longer remember how to count coins, add or subtract. He said, "I knew public ed would stagnate him but I had no idea he would actually unlearn things!" So, I finally have his total support. He's going to teach math and I'll keep teaching everything else. He's also going to help me find a gifted friendly school for next year. He is completely on the bandwagon, so that's a victory for me.

At this point, we're mostly trying to figure out how to remedy the situation. His test is going to be done by a private psychologist who specializes in diffrentiating ADHD from boredeom and Dubrowski's from SPD and I love her attitude. Luckily, the achievement test is on a later date so I do have more time but yes, I may need to push it back even further. We have a parent appointment with her tomorrow and I'll show her samples of his montessori work and where he's at right now and see what she says.

I'm happy to hear that the WISC doesn't have math! What will it include? Will it assess his abilities accurately despite this setback?

Look up WISC in wikipedia.com. It has a very nice description of WISC. DS7 just got the IQ test and my psycologist did not test the supplemental part, just everything else.

According to wikipedia, there is a computation portion, but it's supplemental. I asked my son if he tested it, he said no.

Sorry, Giftedticcyhyper! Dottie is the master in this area. She is always right.

Thank you all. Say, Dottie, can you explain further? He once seemed to be gifted in math but now is a nervous wreck trying to find ten bears on a page. Will he still do well? How would you recommend bringing up his confidence and his skills? I appreciate ANY information you can give me.

Hi gifted-tic-cyhyper - Welcome (and what does your name stand for ???)

I would say that 'trying to get through the rest of the year' is a questionable goal. There is noting wrong with midyear gradeskips or emergency homeschooling if needed (which it sounds like it is!)

This is also a golden opportinity to try out that fancy private school at a 'pro-rated' price to see if it's going to work for him. You didn't say so, but I'll bet a nickle that the reason you didn't go with the 10K school is that you had no faith that they would do a better job, yes? This time of year is great if they will take him, and you should definitly play the sympathy card, because then you can try it without committing to the whole 10 K, see what I mean?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I would suggest getting your child evaluated by someone who specializes in GT kids as they can also support you as a parent and help you make decisions.

Many private schools will provide scholarships and do acceleration. You have to ask. Many private schools are just as bad as public ones.

An acquaintance was told by the top school district in my area that they could not help him with his DD6, so he went the eval route which gave him a lot of info. They settled on a private school in the area - they help his family with tuition.

He did not even look into the one public gifted program in the area that would have placed his child with others like her and then radically advanced them as a group. He was done with public schools. Finished.

A coworker is now going the same route with his DS6 who can do 3 x 3 digit multiplication in his head. He is also upset with the Public Schools as well.

Grinity,

The name describes DS6: gifted, ticcy and hyper. Hee, hee!

Your advice is great. I just met with the psychologist who's going to give him the WISC and WJ and I am thrilled. She totally knows what she's doing and wasn't phased by any of our experiences thus far, educational or developmental. On top of it, she said that she's willing to help us advocate at the school. So, that's very positive. The test is early March.

DS has lost all interest in reading and math. I have to get him excited about learning again because he has totally shut down. So, I've put together an afterschool curriculum that I hope will re-ignite his engine. He has to learn that it's o.k. to be smart again before the WISC or else he's going to play dumb or be lazy. Unfortunately, he's so tired from a long day at school that he doesn't want to do more work when he comes home. So, I'm trying to decide how to resolve that. I could either ask the principal to consider diffrentiated curriculum or I could just pull him out for the remainder of the year.

His new teacher knows how to handle him and his behavior has improved. However, he's telling me that the work is still baby work. He said, "It's funny because our desks are set up like we're older kids and if anyone walked in they would think we were doing hard work but it's still just baby work...I mean, kindergarten work."

I'm not sure whether I need to wait until the results of the IQ test come in in order to begin phase two of my advocacy process (i.e. getting him harder work). What if the IQ results don't impress them? I am concerned that DS's new and improved behavior won't last much longer if we don't give him a greater challenge.

We are moving the family in April to a bigger city where there are about five different gifted magnets, which is good but it prevents me from putting him into a private school right now. Also, I don't know how I'm going to get him into a good school for next year in the big city when we are just now starting to understand what his needs are! Sorry I'm just blathering on...

I like Dr. Sylvia Rimm's comment in a presentation, you hold a Ph.D. in your child. No one, no professional, no school adminstrator knows your child the way you do. We all, ok maybe mostly me, like to hide our heads in the sand. But stand tall momma, you know in your heart what is going on - don't let them smell fear :-)