Sorry if this question is silly.

I booked a testing appointment for my son already. Just found out that DYS requires the student to be a US citizen / permanent resident. Really shocked. We are Asians living in the US, not a permanent resident yet, but our green card is under process. Will that help?

Thanks.

I think it is great that you desire for your family to become permanent residents of the USA by obtaining a green card. Following the links provided on that webpage (While your green card application is pending, USCIS Processing Times, Historical Average Processing Times) may provide you with information to help manage your expectations about the length of time remaining until you receive a decision on the green card. From prior posts it appears that your child is about 8 years old, so there is not a time crunch to apply to DYS... there are about 8 more years to apply.

Is potential application to the DYS program your sole reason for having your child tested?

It seems a bit unusual for a member of the forum for more than two years not to have seen the information on the How to Apply - DYS Eligibility Requirements webpage prior to scheduling an appointment for assessment. The same webpage states:

You can always have him tested now and DYS will accept qualifying results within the last 2 Years. You probably would get your residency status by then. Once you receive your green card then you can apply to DYS right away.

Thanks a lot for replying.
Yes, totally agree it is unusual. I seem to have missed that part, somehow. All along I have been only thinking about age and the score qualifications.

The purpose of my testing was to apply for DYS if he qualifies. He is already into the school district's full time gifted program. I am not sure if I should go ahead and get it done anyways or drop it. The Green Card processing times can take up to decades and I am confused about whether to do the testing or not. Could doing this testing be useful in any other way?

Thanks for responding, I may not get the green card in 2 years considering the application queues from my nationals is pretty long. Really disappointed right now.

Testing occurs for many reasons, including:
- parents seeking to understand something out-of-the-ordinary which they may be observing about their child,
- learning about strengths and any relative weaknesses,
- gathering data for potential future acceleration (grade skip) or for advocacy,
- qualifying for a variety of memberships, summer camps, and other programs.

Does your child have a particular need which you are hoping to address? There are usually several approaches to help meet a student's needs. Some thoughts to consider:
- What does the gifted program at your child's school consist of?
- Is it a good "fit" for his interests and abilities?
- Is he experiencing academic growth?
- Is he happy?
- Does he have friendships with his classmates?

I doubt very much that Davidson will allow you to join DYS without a green card. However, you are still free to take advantage of the many other benefits that they offer, such as the Gifted Database and (when your child is older) the THINK Summer Institute.

Personally, I would not get the testing if you do not have a reason like the ones that indigo lists above.

The full time gifted program at school provides 1 grade acceleration in all subject areas. I am sure he is benefited out of it and is happy. He has a lot of friends and is very social. He loves reading and reads middle school and high school level novels all the time. He loves his math and can handle much more than what the program can offer. At home, he always does math that is at least two grades ahead.

I am not clear on what else I should be offering him. I am constantly worried if I am doing full justice. I am also unclear whether he is getting enough opportunities to work at his complete potential. Please provide the factors that can quantify and determine these variables.

He almost never loses in anything he has hands on like math competitions, art contests etc.. He can do wonderful pencil sketches. I know that I have to do something better for him. I do not know what and how.

I thought DYS can definitely help him, if he qualifies. Now that it is a dead end for me, I have no clue how to proceed. Sorry to sound so desperate and naive. Please shed some light on what I can possibly do.

Indigo "qualifying for a variety of memberships, summer camps, and other programs."

- Could you please detail on these?

He is in 2nd grade and can handle fractions, prealgebra and a bit of algebra too. He always maxes out in the achievement tests given in his class like STAR which are also tested 1 grade ahead for him. His teacher considers him to be one of the best performing even amidst the gifted students. He started reading when he was 2 and could handle mental arithmetic before he was 5.
And, he is bilingual. He can read, write and speak our native language fluently. He is a healthy, happy, and a jolly-go little guy.

Based on your posts, ss62, it sounds as though your son is doing well:
- happy
- has a lot of friends and is very social
- loves reading, knows his favorite genre, and reads a lot (several years above his grade level).
It sounds like the gifted program is a decent fit, and you are providing at-home enrichment when he craves it (higher math, contests, etc).

If a time comes when he needs more academic challenge and/or the company of intellectual peers, you may see pervasive changes, such as those listed in this brief roundup:
- not so happy (for example: change in personality and/or outlook, feeling invalidated, unsupported, unaffirmed, left out, marginalized, ostracized, internalizing a sense of "guilt" for being "privileged" with higher-than-average intelligence, anxious, afraid to make a mistake, bored, hopeless)
- withdrawn from friends (for example: saying they don't "get" his humor, aren't interested in the same things, he has to hide his intelligence and "dumb down" to fit in, etc)
- lack of interest in reading, and/or choosing genres influenced by popular taste of kids his chronological age and/or grade level
- avoiding challenge (for example: shunning new experiences, procrastinating when faced with learning about topics which he may not be too interested in or naturally good at).
These are quality-of-life factors, rather than being quantitative. For a quantitative measure, you might look for a trend in achievement test scores which indicate a lack of growth over time.

Welcome to the club, I believe we all feel that way. That is part of the bond within the gifted community.

There is not a one-size-fits-all-gifted-kids answer. Are you looking for something online? To be integrated into his school day? To provide at-home enrichment? Are you looking for further contests/competitions? Activities to pursue alone? Or as part of a team? Does his school have a math club which competes?

As mentioned by others, The Davidson Institute for Talent Development serves the general public with a number of valuable resources. Including:
- free access to the Davidson Database
- free downloadable Guidebooks

The possible use of IQ test scores for enrolling your son in a variety of memberships, summer camps, and other programs may vary GREATLY by your location, willingness to travel, your child's strengths/interests, and your child's age. This calls for a bit of research. The Davidson database and old threads on this forum are both rich resources for parental lists... what worked for others' children.

To make you feel better, I don't think DYS can offer him much either other than getting to know some other gifted children in their events, unless you want to move to Reno to attend school at Davidson.

You can participate some of the talent search things like Hopkins CTY which starts at 2nd grade and that would qualify him for their courses and summer camps. Other talent search like the Duke TIP starts later. None of these require citizenship and green card.

Does he like music or sports? Playing instruments may be a good challenge for him. Or find something he is not a natural in and do that. As long as there is something he needs to work on, I think that is enough for a young child.

But it sounds like he is doing very well. There is really no need to do more if he is happy. There will never be a program that fits his needs exactly. You just have to make it up as you go.

Thank you indigo, what a clear and detailed response !!
I do provide him extra work at home whenever he wants. He takes after-school math classes, and I am also thinking of enrolling in Singapore Math this year.
We do informal brain games and fun puzzles all the time. His school has a good math club that conducts tournaments a couple of times in a year. He is a good speller and participates in bee contests.
I am thinking I will go ahead with the testing , after all.

Thomas Percy, your reply made me feel much better. Thanks much. He does learn our traditional music and is into badminton at preliminary levels. He loves his taek won do training very much :-). He hates swimming, I just do not know why:-) I will look into other venues like JH CTY and try to do my best for him.

Welcome to the club in terms of always wondering whether or are doing enough to support your gifted child.

I like to think that every reasonably sentient parent feels the same way at times.

I am the father of a DYS girl aged 13 and I have felt the same intermittent and paralyzingly panic/second guessing yourself. It never goes away but I can assure you that the frequency of the 'attacks' does lessen over time.

There is no great hurry for DYS right now as that window will still be open once you get your green card.

So life until DYS - what to do, some suggestions:

+ check local universities to see if they have any G&T programming at weekends/summers - review entry criteria and still test if needed

+.check for gifted support groups in your area (we do not have any but used the weekend G&T program at Montclair State to help our kid find peers with similar interest she)

+ Singapore Maths books are relatively cheap and very good

+ Look into AoPS - great Mayhs curriculum, they have have Beast Academy for younger students now (working through this will prepare him for their PreAlgebra class)

+ Look into Duke TIPS//CTY online and summer classes

+ Post questions and updates to this forum it is a useful resource which greatly steepened my learning curve and provided support through rocky patches. It is also a great place to celebrate you kid's achievements without alienating the members of the general population by appearing boastful.

Good luck!

Thanks madeinuk. Your suggestions are very helpful. I looked into Beat academy and it is really good. He does work on SG math books from time to time.
I have not been effectively using the forum and did not realize how helpful the lovely people here can be. I am thankful to all of you who have pitched in to clarify my questions and confusions.

You may also want to look into PG Retreat. It is free to join and membership is not limited to US citizens. www.pgretreat.org

Huh. Their 2018 event is near me. Any forum users who attend can feel free to PM me for a possible meeting over coffee.

I am also interested in any feedback regarding PG Retreat as well. Is it worth applying and attending the annual gatherings?

Just looked at the website and checked criteria to qualify with them as profoundly gifted and while there is no cutoff listed, they do say that ideally applicants will have an IQ of at least 160 (fs, gai, or verbal). Since the current tests only go to 160 and my ds got 19s on half of the sub tests and still only has an fsiq of 144, I'm not sure how anyone taking the Wisc v could score at least 160 (read: 160), except maybe by getting all 19s. Ds got an 18 on one of six nv subtests and ended up with a 158 non verbal IQ. And even if he had gotten 160, they don't take non verbal anyway, only verbal as qualifying. I'm not saying I think my ds is pg, mostly that I'm just wondering who is with the criteria listed and the current tests only going to 160?

Well I read that there are only 50 or so families that are part of this group. Davidson has about 3000 families. Obviously Davidson is more well known but their acceptance criteria is also much lower. So maybe PG Retreat is just very selective or exclusive. I think the 160+ is for kids that took Wisc IV With extended scoring or SB that had higher ceilings.

Actually, from my perusal of the website, it appears that PGR uses a portfolio process, reviewed by a clinical psych and a psychotherapist. There are no absolute IQ cutoffs. They consider accomplishments, above-level testing (SAT, ACT, etc.), and clinical judgement by a professional skilled in GT assessment, in addition to formal cognitive and achievement assessments.

Here are 3 quotes from the website:

Individuals identified as profoundly gifted, or PG, fall into the range of scores that are at least 5 standard deviations above the average IQ score of 100. Individuals with IQ scores of 175 and higher are considered to be profoundly gifted (PG).

Due to the difficulty in correct identification of profoundly gifted children, PG Retreat’s Application Review Team looks at a combination of ability test scores, performance, recommendations by professionals experienced in identifying PG individuals, and other evidence of demonstration of exceptionally advanced ability in more than one area.


Ideally, applicants to PGR have FSIQ, GAI, or Verbal Comprehension scores of at least 160.

While the site does indicate other things are looked at, it sets a standard that can't be met with the current most well respected tests. Based on what I'm reading it looks like they consider 175 to be pg, but they will consider applicants around 160+ with supporting material. It just seems to me that the organization should use scores obtainable with current instruments for application purposes. No one tested in the past few years could score 5 standard deviations above the mean.

This organization seems small so more than likely they just haven’t updated their testing criteria, IMO. Or maybe they haven’t had many new members 🤔 and want to keep it that way to be exclusive.

Thank you for the suggestion on pgretreat and further information. I will check on that.

Membership has grown considerably in the last few years. We've been members for a few years but have yet to attend a retreat. We used IQ scores to qualify so it was a relatively painless process, but I've heard others have been asked to provide lots of narratives and supporting documentation.

ss62, are you aware of Epsilon Camp, for kids who love, LOVE, Love math?

some qualifying criteria

The first round of admissions for 2018 closes Feb 12.

Thanks indigo, I will check this out. But feb 12 is really close.