I am so lost. My daughter who is currently 5 years and 8 months took the WPPSI-IV and KTEA-3 in December (so, at age 51/2). We knew she would score within the gifted range and we have her GIEP meeting coming up, but I have so many questions on what the scores mean and what accommodations we should be advocating for.
First the WPPSI-IV: What does it mean to hit a ceiling? What are the ceilings on the WPPSI-IV? Does it really matter if we get her "true IQ" so long as the accommodations are appropriate? I only ask because she scored a 17 in three of the categories and depending on where you get your information it may or may not be a ceiling.
KTEA-3: I guess this is the achievement test they will be using for the PLEP section, how do you determine what she needs based on these scores? I just get the impression that they are going to offer her the schools pull out program and some "token differentiation" in the classroom and I don't think that will be enough. She is reading well above grade level and truthfully i don't think she's learned a single thing since school started.

Thank you for the quick response. There is so much to sort through! Her composite score on the WPPSI was a 134. the subtests were 17 in information and similarities, 16 in matrix reasoning and 12 in block design (though I have heard that mental rotation doesn't develop in girls until later in life? - so maybe that's why there is such a gap there?)
How would I know if she answered enough questions on her test? Is that something the report would indicate or something I should ask about? -- though like I mentioned before, I'm not sure that it really matters since she passed the 130 mark to qualify for the program.
My real confusion comes from the KTEA-3 and how that will support her needs for accommodations. My biggest concern is that according to the schools curriculum, she has already mastered all of the material for kindergarten (by the end of the first semester) so, I am just having difficulty seeing how the teacher will be able to offer her higher level work within the same classroom. It seems to me that, especially at the early grades, acceleration would have to happen -- and compacting the material (the first grade curriculum looks like a really great program for her second semester, but I'm sure she'd breeze through the work in half the time).
I guess I just don't understand the options available. A pull-out program certainly won't cut it-- what is she supposed to do the rest of the time?

Welcome!

You've received great advice above.

If the scores indicate your child is in the 99.9th percentile according to the information provided on this webpage, you may wish to apply to the Davidson Young Scholars (DYS) program.

To prepare for your GIEP meeting, you might want to read this post of buzzwords and their meanings, especially looking at pull-out groups and differentiation as you mentioned that this what you anticipate may be offered by the school.

In general, many parents find that their gifted children are not well-served by the government school system, which is focused on closing achievement gaps and excellence gaps (therefore may cap the growth of students at the top to accomplish this gap closure: equal outcomes is their goal).

What is the downside of a child not being challenged in school? Students may grow unmotivated by lack of an academic challenge worthy of their potential; They may stop learning and "level out"... They may find ways to entertain themselves in class and be labeled as class clowns or disruptive...
- This old post summarizes ten key points made in the linked article: What A Child Doesn't Learn.
- This old post discusses excerpts from a linked article on the downside of having a poor educational/academic "fit".

Armed with the knowledge from these links, during your meeting you'll want to take notes, and ask gently probing questions.

Here is a link to a post which contains a roundup of advocacy tips.

Thank you for the links!
I have about 20 pages open in google lol.
I am concerned that the school will not be meeting her needs, which is why I am looking to figure out what would be a reasonable expectation going into the meeting. I don't want to seem pushy, but I also don't want to sign off on a token program either. I have been very patient in the evaluation process (6 months so far!) but she needs to start learning eventually!
Does anyone have experience with a differentiated program? How does that work?

The 12 catches my eye too - especially since the other scores were so high. My guess is that it is mostly to do with lack of exposure. She is highly imaginative and prefers to spend most of her time playing pretend and reading. She loves crafts, but mostly cutting, gluing and creating she has never spent much time coloring and her penmanship is lacking. She only started writing in August and has made great strides, but its just not something she focuses on. I know nothing about the tests other than what the report prints out.
So by answering all the questions -- she didn't hit a ceiling?
Before school started, I warned her that people learn at different rates and that she needed to patient with her peers and so far she has been doing great, however I have been seeing the silly's creep in and at home her listening skills and temper tantrums have really taken a turn for the worse, which I think is because she doesn't need to exercise them during the school day. She knows she can skate on the material without paying attention.

The Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS) recommends use of these types of assessments:
- ability
- aptitude
- achievement

A list of specific test instruments is found in this old post.

For some reason my replies aren't showing up so forgive me if this winds up being a duplicate
Indigo - thank you for the links. I am concerned that the school will be hesitant to meet her needs based on previous interactions and I want to go into the meeting with a good idea of what I would like to accomplish. It's just that I'm not a professional! I know she has mastered everything kindergarten has to offer, but I'm not sure how high her knowledge goes, how to interpret the tests, or what a reasonable accommodation is and how it would be implemented or determined. Does anyone have experience with differentiation and how has it worked for your kids?
Portia - the 12 caught my eye too - especially since she scored so high in the other areas. My guess is that it is mostly from lack of exposure. She's much rather read than color. Are you saying with a score of 17 that she did not reach the ceiling? As for what she does the rest of the time -- before she started school warned her that people learn at different rates and that she would have to patient with her peers, so far that has worked, but I have noticed the sillys creeping in. I also know that since school started her listening skills and temper tantrums at home have really taken a turn for the worse. I believe its because she has learned she can skate by through school without listening and she has a hard time when we try to hold her accountable at home. If more was expected at school I think her behavior at home would improve as well.

How does grade skipping work exactly? I am sure that she is able to do all of the work presented in first grade (as well as some second), but she would have to "catch up" first. How do they place her where she belongs and address the material she missed?

aeh is our local volunteer test score interpretation expert on the forum... hopefully your inquiry will be noticed and responded to by aeh.

Problem 1: Lack of challenge shortchanges the child. See the thread "What Kids Don't Learn".
Problem 2: The child not being engaged can be misinterpreted by the school as lack of maturity, ADD/ADHD, poor social skills, etc... when disengaging may actually be a normal childhood response to lack of challenge.

So far her primary teacher recognizes her gifts and has been great at putting her with students that she can "mentor" so most of what would be misbehavior has been channeled into mothering the boys in her class lol. But obviously this is a short term solution and not where she should be spending her energies.

Side note: Thank you to everyone here! This board has been so helpful and everyone is so supportive. That's not always true of the internet hahaha.

To answer this in a sentence, a school would generally seek to determine whether the child had learned enough on his/her own (outside of school) so that there are not noticeable or sizable gaps. Some schools may ask students to take the end-of-year assessments.

You asked how a full grade acceleration (grade skip) works? In addition to reading information at the link provided for Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS), you may want to check:
1) your school's policies... often found online. Does your school website mention anything a about this? Or about single-subject acceleration (SSA)?
2) Also check your state laws and state department of education for information online.

A lot of what I have read points to wanting an accelerated kid to still be high achieving in the receiving grade for maintaining confidence. They might have to work harder to get to the top, but having challenge is the point, so I believe you want to see those scores still around 90% or so a year ahead. You wouldn't want to accelerate and then have your child at 50% -- that means they could probably be met with 1 year above differentiation in their existing grade and be high achieving.

As for gaps, since curriculum typically spirals, a lot of what they learn is touched on again in future grades, only with increasing depth and more vocabulary. The idea is, if a gap is noticed, then the teacher should take that chance to fill it in. I think the primary grades may be easier to fill curriculum gaps, as I can say skipping part of 4th-5th meant DS missed out on some content in social studies that won't all spiral back, so we are going to do some on our own.

Perhaps it is parental bias, but after scouring the district websites I found the curriculum for each grade level. Looking at kindergarten she could easily have passed an exit exam months ago. Looking at first grade, she would not currently pass, however with instruction I feel like she could easily do well there. Learn more challenging concepts and hopefully at a faster rate. So what would be the appropriate accomation here? Subject acceleration doesn't seem like the answer since she scored high in both math and reading. Is it possible for her kindergarten teacher and myself to "catch her up" enough this year so that next year she would be prepared to enter the second grade instead? Should I ask for first grade exit exam at the end of summer and let that be my goal for her GIEP? The district is going to love me.....

I think grade acceleration is a very individual decision, and it really depends on what the school and you can do to ensure the child is learning, growing and happy. Some kids will do great with acceleration, and others may be happier with their age peers socially. When our DS was in K, he could have been accelerated based on academics, but on social and motor skills, he wasn't ready. If anything, I wish he'd skipped grade one, but we waited because we didn't really know better and met resistance. DD could accelerate, but she doesn't want to, and we have found a happy medium. In second grade, she had a really special teacher, who encouraged her strengths in math through a small-group cluster, and that made up for a lot. Now we're trying to figure out what to do for next year.

When we accelerated DS, he jumped right in and was right at top, because he tested very high on one-grade-above material and also compared to two-grades ahead. We did no outside fill-in, and if there was anything missing, he's picked it up along the way.

Thank you longcut That information is really helpful! Would her KTEA-3 scores tell me how she has tested on above grade level materials? I asked the school for this information and they said:
"Unfortunately, while standardized assessments provide helpful information on student’s performance relative to age/grade peers, standardized assessments do not provide solid information on real world specific academic instructional levels. The standardized instruments include items that statistically have been answered correctly by students at various grade levels, however, responses to those items does not translate easily into an instructional or “grade” level. Specifically, answering an item correctly does not equate to having developed academic skills at those specific grade levels. The standard scores from DD performance show us that she performed as well or better than 98% of kindergarten students with her responses to reading comprehension items and, as well as or better than 95% of kindergarten student her responses to math concepts. "
I don't know what 98% or 95% mean in relation to grade standards -- I just know her teacher reports mastery of all K materials.

You are right - public school will typically NOT meet the needs of many gifted children.
- Check your state education laws, for any requirements there may be for meeting the needs of gifted students. Typically there are none.
- Check your school policies, for any statements which you may be able to hold the school to.

- Don't push... Do ask questions, and take notes.
- There may be nothing to "sign off" on, as gifted ed is typically not a requirement.

My advice: Choose your advocacy words carefully. Or you may create an unyielding solid.
- Kids can and do learn outside of school.
- Schools may require students to state they've learned something, even when the student must make false statements to do so. For example, a student may be required to point out "new words" in something which they are reading... when all the words are familiar to the student. In this way, schools can falsify records and also drive a wedge between the parents (who say child is not learning) and the child (who pointed to new words which they have supposedly learned while reading).

Differentiation only means something is different... it can be more homework (differentiated task demands), more stringent grading, etc. Take a look at the buzzwords post, so you can develop a good BS filter. Then be sure to ask about the 5Ws of the gifted programming or service offered for your child.

thanks portia -- I don't think she has spatial challenges so much as she has lack of exposure. She colors for class and it has improved a lot over the course of the year. She has started writing more now, and while messy it is readable. She is very mature and well liked -- in fact her social skills may be where she is most gifted lol. Which is why grade or subject acceleration doesn't scare me with her, she would fit right in with a high school class if I let her lol.

We are located in PA so Chapter 16 does afford some protection to gifted children. We will have to sign a NORA at the end of our GIEP meeting otherwise we go to a due process hearing. Right now I am trying to interpret the scores and figure out what my goals for her are so that when the meeting happens I am not bullied into whatever the school is willing to recommend.

I am hearing that gifted kids can be under-served in public school, but i am not sure I have a better solution. We cannot afford to send her to a private school - so what other options are there?

My biggest hang up is that gifted kids are gifted all day -- not just tuesdays at 12, so I know a pull out program isn't sufficient. I just don't see what a classroom teacher can reasonably do to provide advanced material AND a faster pace - its like asking her to teach a whole separate class within her class. That is why I keep leaning toward a grade acceleration, at least that way she'll be closer. I just don't know if that is a reasonable request since I have no idea how to interpret her KTEA-3 scores into grade levels

To manage your expectations, it would be unusual for a school to require a kindergarten teacher to prepare a child to pass the first grade end-of-year exam as prep to skip 1st grade and go to second grade.

You might want to read several old discussion threads on the pros-and-cons of acceleration.

IMO, your goals should be prep for interfacing with the school:
1) Read up on everything provided in the links, and feel calm and confident in your advocacy skills.
2) Have many conversations with your child and spouse and/or child's other parent. Your family must be of one accord.
3) For your first meeting, practice listening, taking notes, asking questions, learning how things work at that school.

Thank you indigo -- you can tell my dander is up already lol. i have run up against the school on previous issues and my feeling is that they like to do what is required and not much more when it comes to accommodations. If pushed, they will cooperate, but not without some heavy parental involvement

Asking about differentiation is a bit like asking if we like lunch... lunch can be anything! Differentiation can be anything. You might want to read the buzzwords post.

I understand the concept of differentiation, I just don't understand the practice. If all the kids in class are working on counting to 100 and DD can count to 200 -- what could they possibly offer her that is of meaningful benefit? Surely the class does work as a whole and every item in her curriculum can't be adjusted to allow for something different just for my child.

Correct. This where being familiar with both state laws and school policies are necessary.

They may cooperate best if you learn and adopt effective advocacy approaches (as opposed to "pushing").

This is unfortunate. It may raise a question as to whether you may now be planning to weaponize your child's high test scores, for use against the school.

To manage your expectations, there is no requirement that differentiation be of meaningful benefit... just... different. Parents may wish to ask about the 5Ws: who, what where, when, why, how... to anticipate what their child's learning experience may be.

I will admit that advocacy is where I will struggle most. I tend to be a little stubborn. My husband is much more diplomatic. I will have to put my listening ears on at our first meeting.

According to PA law - Chapter 16 defines gifted education as:
(vi) Individualized to meet the educational needs of the student.
(vii) Reasonably calculated to yield meaningful educational benefit and student progress.
And goes on to state that the education provided:
(2) … is based on the unique needs of the student, not solely on the student’s classification.

so they do have to prove that what they are offering is sufficient

Apparently, I am late to the party...

1. Reaching a ceiling has different meanings. One sense is the discontinue rule, which means that the student had the number of items incorrect (usually in a row, or within an item set, depending on the test) needed to trigger the discontinue criteria for that subtest. Another is the test ceiling is too low, meaning that there is reason to believe that the student's abilities were underestimated/truncated by this instrument, because there were insufficient difficult items to spread the upper extreme of the population. Typically, this is indicated either by failure to trigger the discontinue rule (see the previous meaning of ceiling), or by obtaining the maximum possible scaled score (on the WPPSI-IV, that would be a 19 on the subtests).

Your child's subtest scores do not reach the ceiling in the sense of max obtainable score, but it is possible that the discontinue rule was not triggered prior to running out of items. That would be a question for your test administrator.

2. Score profile: It would appear that your child was given the WPPSI-IV subtests comprising the GAI only, which is reasonable in a GT assessment, but does not provide the fine-motor processing speed data that was mentioned above by Portia. As she points out, the BD score is noticeably lower than the other scores, and does suggest that further investigating her motor and/or spatial skills might be worthwhile at some point. She is also very young, and in her first formal school experience (it appears), so this may indeed also represent lack of exposure. I would keep an eye on it, though, especially as asynchrony in fine motor skill can be a key factor holding children back from various forms of substantive GT interventions, both in the primary grades, and much later on.

3. Achievement testing: with regard to the KTEA-3, it is a norm-referenced instrument, designed to provide information on one's standing compared to age- and grade-peers (depending on which norms are used). It does not comprehensively sample the skills expected for each grade level, which is why it cannot be used to determine grade placement (you would need a criterion-referenced instrument, or a curriculum-based assessment, for that). On the plus side, it does highlight the outlier status of your child, which can be helpful in advocacy for explaining that, for example, the child who is at the 98th %ile is one in 50, which means that, in a school with 4x25 = 100 kindergartners, there would be expected to be about 2 students available (including her) to make up a reading group for her. So no, "going deeper" on the existing grade-level curriculum materials probably won't meet her needs.

You may wish to share this discussion thread, and the links to resources, with your husband, so he may also read up on advocacy, acceleration, etc. It may be helpful for the pair of you to attend meetings together. This often helps ensure that the conversation stays focused on meeting the child's needs... while one spouse takes notes.

You may find that the school only needs to prove to the state department of education that the child makes reasonable yearly progress.

For example, the school may not be required to prove to you that each planned differentiation activity has meaningful benefit.

You'll want to learn how things work... in your school... in your state.

If thinking about acceleration, as a starting point you may wish to read up on the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS), and old pros-and-cons discussion threads.

a million times thank you aeh!!!! This is exactly the information I have been digging for all day.
When I asked about KTEA-3 and how that relates to placement this was the response I received (referenced deeper in a previous post):
"Unfortunately, while standardized assessments provide helpful information on student’s performance relative to age/grade peers, standardized assessments do not provide solid information on real world specific academic instructional levels."
Should i be asking for additional testing to be included in her PLEP so that we can accurately determine a proper grade placement for each subject, or at the very least should they be giving that information from the KTEA to me so that I can make some educated decisions about the types of accommodations she would be best suited for?
If I am understanding you properly about her BD score -- are you saying that the asynchronicity of her development may be masking even higher gifted abilities? That once those skills that are "lacking" catch up she would score higher on these tests? I have read that mental rotation is late to develop in girls. Could this account for the discrepancy?

I will absolutely be sharing with the hubby! No worries there

Many years of data have found a small but persistent gender gap in spatial abilities,which recent research suggests is exacerbated by gender disparities in play, adult expectations, and responses to failure. On the bright side, these are all amenable to intervention, and the skills themselves are fairly malleable.

For your child, yes, it is possible this test underestimates her ability, both because of the discrepantly low BD score, and simply because of her youthful age. Scores generally are considered more stable around age eight or nine.

For placement purposes, I typically suggest end-of-unit or end-of-course exams taken from the actual curriculum the school uses. Test up level by level until her score drops below about 80 to 90%. That will give you some sense of when she transitions from her mastery level to her instructional level. If having grades that reflect her normative status by age are important, then I would use 90 as the cut score. On the other hand, scoring in the 70s on a unit prior to instruction is still pretty good (so using 80 as the cut score), and bodes well for scoring high after instruction (so it doesn't eliminate the likelihood of high grades, by any means), but also gives the student a little bit of opportunity to experience the process of learning as something more effortful than unconscious absorption.

Generally speaking, the creation of educational opportunities for outliers may come down to a family's skills in researching, advocacy, and providing extracurricular activities.

For example, these articles from the Davidson Database may provide a few ideas...
The Davidson database has information on choosing a school, including:
- Basic educational options for gifted students in schools
- Choosing the right school for your gifted child (contains "must-ask questions and the answers that you should seek")
Parents may wish to learn answers to these questions, regarding their current school's approach to gifted education.

Center for Creative Learning LLC has an article Dear School People, which may also offer some ideas.

If your child has particular areas of interest, you may wish to ask forum members to recommend specific resources which their children have enjoyed for advanced learning in those areas.

Your input has been invaluable aeh, thank you for taking the time with this newbie. My biggest struggle hasn't been with determining whether or how gifted she is -- the problem has been figuring out what she needs to continue growing. I have been trying to piece that together from the WPPSI and KTEA and it hasn't been making sense. Now I know why! I'm missing part of the puzzle! I will ask that they complete the placement exams before our GIEP meeting to be included in the PLEP section -- otherwise there is really no point to the meeting as we still won't know what to do with her.

thanks again indigo -- you are quick with those links! Thank goodness too, because these tired eyes have been combing the web all day! I do appreciate all the help.

BTW, I don't have a WPPSI manual, so I can't say for sure, but two 17s should generate a VCI in the 140s, which may be close enough for DYS consideration, if you can get another index score in that range (you need two Index scores on the WPPSI-IV of 145+). If she is given Picture Concepts, and it scores at least as high, that would generate an FRI which may also be in the 140s.

Basically, her level of verbal giftedness is likely higher than suggested by the GAI of 134 (was that it?). And her abstract thinking may be as well (that's fluid reasoning). While you're asking for additional placement testing, you might request that they give her that one additional subtest, so you can have two Index scores, just in case they both fall in the 140s.

aeh - i had no idea! Thanks again! I would love to see her qualify (plus maybe the school would take my requests more seriously) I am in for a world of education -- if only I were as smart as my kiddo lol.

The point of the meeting could be to learn: "how things work"... what they suggest as "next steps"... how many children they've seen at a similar level over the years... what gifted programs/services they've offered/developed for those children... how many have been accelerated... the size of cluster groups they've been able to create for these pupils... etc. Ask questions and listen well. You may learn whether the school would typically offer the end-of-year tests, etc... and you may suggest offering them.

Please do not see this meeting as a one-and-done. It is the beginning of what one might hope would be building a positive partnership in defining/recognizing and meeting your child's changing educational needs over the next decade or more.

Common core has ushered in an era of data collection on school children... which can have life-long impacts upon your child's future opportunities.

Take your time, prepare yourself well before you meet.

Agreed! You may be interested in this youtube video, Gifted All the Time, by Dr. Dan Peters, Summit Center, CA.

The benefit to a pull-out program may be the clustering with other gifted kiddos... these kids need and benefit from having an intellectual peer group. The research in this old post emphasizes the importance of an academic/intellectual peer group.

Once your child is acquainted with other gifted and/or high achieving children, parents may choose to create social opportunities outside of school... both for the children, and for the parents... it can be helpful to be connected to a local network of parents of gifted children.

Thanks indigo -- unfortunately I have already gotten the impression from the school that they would like this meeting to be one and done -- I am sure they will explain all of those things, but they will also expect me to sign off before I leave the room. In PA it is required that all testing is completed before the meeting. I also know that we are in uncharted territory because the schools "official" program doesn't starte until the second grade and they have already confirmed that there are no other children her age her age currently in the program. I agree that there are benefits to the pull-out program, just that it can't be all they offer.

Going back to some of your comments about skipping - I really wouldn't worry about ensuring that there aren't any gaps or that she's covered *everything* in grade 1 before skipping the grade. Assuming your curriculum is somewhat similar to what we have there is so much spiraling and review that I would expect a gifted kid to easily catch up and fill anything in if you're talking about an early elementary skip. If your kindergarten program is extremely play based then it might be preferable to skip grade 2 instead of grade 1 so she has a year of desk work style education under her belt first but honestly, for most stereotypical girls that could probably be handled easily as well.

You have lots of great advice above. I would emphasize going through the district website thoroughly and understanding what they do and don't offer. When we started this process it became obvious pretty quickly that a well-informed parent often knew more about their policy and programs than the average administrator.

I'd also emphasize documenting EVERYTHING that they say/promise. We had administrators outright lie to us but I don't have the paper trail to call them on it.

In the end, for children in the regular classroom it really comes down to the teacher. Some teachers will do nothing, others will do amazing things. The best piece of advocacy work that I ever managed was to request a teacher in the spring that was at least willing to deal with a gifted kid the next year.

If there is any chance of having peers that can also make a huge difference. Many schools want to spread the gifted kids out. Advocating for my DS to be in the same class as the other known gifted kid at least meant that there were two kids to differentiate for and we were able to advocate along with the other parents instead of being on our own. Of course, the downside is that they sometimes advocated for things that I couldn't have cared less about, but at least we were harder to ignore as a group. Having another gifted kid in the class at least made DS stand out a little less. With DD this wasn't as much of an issue - she's much better at blending in when she wants to so YMMV.

Is she happy in K, or is she bored and frustrated? If she's happy enough, one way to ensure that you don't have any gaps would be to have her continue with K this year, and then start 2nd grade next year. You could then request materials from the school and use the summer as a chance to cover the missed material. She would also then benefit from the beginning-of-the year review period in second grade.

If you choose that route, could they confirm at the meeting that she would be eligible for the "official program" next year for second grade?

chay - thanks for the input. I have tried my hardest to dig through the district site, but this district is very reluctant to put ANYTHING in writing - so I have seen some mention of policies, but they are always pretty vague and accompanied by the contact info to speak to someone else. I think if I am looking at a grade skip I am going to have a heck of a battle on my hands -- she is in half day Kindergarten at the moment so in a dream world I'd like to see them let her try 1st grade in the AM and send her back to K in the afternoons like usual. Hopefully that would let everyone get used to the idea before a big skip. (Plus this is the only year something like that would work!) It would let her keep the comfort of her K class while branching out into some harder 1st grade stuff and give her a chance to meet the kids and get comfortable with the age difference before moving up to 2nd with them. 2nd grade is where the gifted pull out traditionally starts anyway -- so she would have some second grade peers next year whereas in 1st grade she would be the only student.

Sometimes no policy can also be in your favor when it comes to skipping. When they say that it can't be done ask them to show you the policy that states that it can't

Please deal only in facts. An "impression" is an interpretation and/or an opinion.

Facts would be: WHO said WHAT, WHEN/WHERE?
Example: Written invitation dated Jan xx, 2017 said "... to finalize child's plan for academic year 2017-2018 during meeting scheduled Feb xx 2017, 9:00 a.m. - 9:20 a.m.)
Reference - School policy XXX.yyy, State statute xyz.12"

Research:
- Is there a State law which states the plan needs to be accomplished in one meeting?
- Is there a School policy which states the plan needs to be accomplished in one meeting?

It is more likely that your child's needs will be identified well (mutual agreement between parents and school as to what the needs are) and will be well-served if you take this slowly, seek facts, create dated documentation. For example: laws change, policies change, websites change... your created/collected/organized documentation at home will not change.

Thank you indigo -- looks like I am going to have to start making a research binder

Amen! chay lol

The school psychologist wants to call to discuss things today (I guess I sent one too many emails lol) I'll let you all know how it goes (fingers crossed!!!)

Correct. What is documented in school policy would tend to apply to ALL students. You may be looking at creating a never-before or rarely-implemented educational plan for your child.

As shared upthread, YOU create the documentation for your child's educational journey by taking notes from each meeting, letter, phonecall, website visit, etc. As suggested in the advocacy tipsheet, link under "Meetings":
- After the meeting, write a summary (points of agreement, etc) and share it, possibly by e-mail

Only if you do not follow the effective advocacy approach, but rather make demands.

In general, a one-time visit to a classroom to "shadow" for a day (or half-day) may be the norm.

In general, schools receive monies based upon the count of pupils... the amount may vary by grade level... and in kindergarten may vary by FT attendance or half-day attendance.

In general, classes tend to run at full capacity, and there may be mandated student-to-teacher ratios which cannot be exceeded... these may vary by age of student.

Therefore placing a part-time kindergarten student into a full-time schedule may tend to run into several obstacles... including the aforementioned budgeting constraints and the student-teacher ratio.

Not to say that a move from K to 1st grade has never been done midyear, but one may be wise to listen well to how things work at their local school, learn the obstacles which may be encountered, and help trouble-shoot or problem solve alongside the school, to help create opportunity for your child. For example: All of the 1st grade classrooms may be filled to capacity but one... which may be mutually agreed to be a poor fit for your child. A school may have a student in mind who may be interested in transferring into this classroom, leaving a possible spot for your child, in another classroom which may be mutually agreed to be a better potential "fit". This would take some time as the school may contact the parents of that child, explain the opportunity for their child, allow two weeks for them to consider transferring back or finalize the placement. After two weeks, if all goes well for that family's transition, your child may be offered the opportunity to visit/shadow for a day, in the newly opened classroom spot. The school may need to work with several classrooms/grade levels to schedule an aide to be present in the 1st grade classroom when your child is present (the student-teacher ratio of younger students is generally different than that for older students). Choosing the day on which to introduce the child can take a bit of effort, when considering elements such as:
- having a test that day?
- completing a project begun on another day?
- beginning a project that day, which she will not have an opportunity to finish on a subsequent day?

Please be very flexible in your thinking... ask questions... listen... take notes... develop documentation...

This is the most comprehensive doc from the school district I have found:
http://cbsd.org/Page/666

click on gifted services

My take on this... You may want to print the 17-page document (last updated 2013), in case any future updates are made which may eliminate options you may be seeking. The 17-page document has graphics which cover the options being discussed (such as acceleration, differentiation) and the document lacks specifics. Therefore one may wish to use the document as a conversation starter, and ask questions as to how these things typically work in the school. After hearing the school team's answer(s), you may want to float some ideas... possibilities... questions. For example, if interested in full-grade acceleration (grade-skip) you might ask about:
- having your child visit/shadow in the 1st grade classroom...
- having your child placed in the 1st grade classroom 1/2 days...
- having your child take end-of-term tests...
- whether the school is familiar with the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS)

Take notes.

The two books listed on page 17 of the document you referenced could most likely be checked out from a local public library, or through inter-library loan, if you'd like to research what they offer for "Teacher Training".

Also look for your school's policies, which often reflect State laws. Schools may look to their policies to ensure they are in compliance with State education laws.

For example, earlier than gifted pull-out was available for DD, the teacher was assigned a high-achieving cluster for math and that cluster worked above standards when possible. Meaning, the teacher had a topic unit for the class, had a brief instruction period to the class, then the three groups rotated stations (group meet with teacher, work independently, and group work on project or game). She looked at the standards rubric for standards mastery one year ahead, and provided material at that level to the top group. She was unable to fit in a full year ahead of material, but DD did get to work above level, along with doing some more engaging logical thinking challenges. It wasn't perfect, but it was above-level differentiation. This year, we have a different arrangement due to different circumstances. In fall, her school assessments (MAP, which goes above level) show her scoring in math in the mid-90s percentile for those two grades ahead. It really depends a lot on working with and supporting the teacher.

For reading, in our school, they also break out into small group book clubs at different levels. At times they go to a different classroom for one teacher to instruct that higher level to students from multiple classrooms. General literacy isn't very differentiated, though, which can be frustrating. DD would complain about having to pick out the main idea of a three sentence paragraph and wanting to have more detail to read.

Yes! Making an advocacy binder is recommended in the meeting prep links listed in the advocacy tip sheet.

YIKES! None of the advice from the forum suggested peppering the school with e-mails.

Unfortunately, you may not yet be well-prepared for interfacing with the school. (Prep goals would include reading the materials provided, discussing/agreeing with spouse on advocacy goals/approach/strategy, and being mentally prepared for calm listening, asking, note-taking.) Please be cautious not to contribute to the creation of a "toxic" learning environment in which your child will not be able to flourish.

indigo - I don't want to worry you lol. My spouse is a teacher and I have had to advocate for DD in the past due to medical issues. My concerns aren't with my interaction with the school so much as they have been with what my expectations should be in the schools willingness/ability to provide for her different instruction.
The phone call went very well. I asked a bunch of questions and they were very helpful and informative. What a great place to start! Most of the accommodations she mentioned were about offering more advanced materials during "centers" for math and reading. She did mention the ability for these subjects to span grade levels, which was reassuring, but if I am looking for a whole grade acceleration I may have some resistance. She also agreed to more testing for her PLEP - which in previous emails she was against so that's great news! Especially if it supports my case for acceleration. I would be willing to let her stay within grade for instruction up to about 1 year above, but after that I think she would need something more. As is I know this is true for reading and I am unsure about math. She also mentioned that she did hit the ceiling on the Information segment of her WPPSI as well as indicating that she believed a lot of her strengths would be in subtests that they did not administer, so if we wanted to pursue more testing for DYS in the future she would be open to that. I'm thinking that should wait until she is old enough for the WISC so that we don't run into ceiling problems again

As a teacher, does he have experience with gifted pupils, being part of a school team for advocacy meetings, and facilitating classroom differentiation, grade skip, etc? Possibly he could provide his expertise...?

So often the two are related... and you earlier mentioned a concern that the school would bully you into accepting what it wanted to offer... hence the posts offering advocacy guidance.

Excellent! ...and you followed up with a friendly e-mail documenting the agreements? next steps...? timeframes...? etc

It seems this anticipated time frame would be in June 2017? In general, schools are not often fully staffed in the summer months... so advance planning may be needed unless the testing is to wait until the fall of the 2017-2018 school year.

Wishing you all the best.

Thanks indigo! I just had just sent my email when I checked back in on the boards lol.

aes - or anyone lol
looking at the DYS application it requires a 145 on two indexes or one GAI or full scale. Currently DD has a 140 in VCI but she did hit the ceiling on the Information section. My question is, do you think that her GAI could increase if more tests were added to the current score? Would adding Picture Naming help raise the VCI and would Picture Concepts elevate her FR enough that it would be worth considering? I don't want to make her or the school continue testing if she is too far outside of the range, but if she is close it might be worth looking into. Would doing a full scale test raise her scores or is the GAI relatively stable with just the 4 simple subtests she was given. If it is worth pursuing, when should I do that? Now? when she turns 6 on the WISC-V? As soon as she turns 6 or later? Are they scaled to age -- meaning would they know the difference between scores on a kid who just turned 6 vs 6:11? Thanks again for helping decipher all the craziness!

There is nothing you can add to raise the VCI on this administration of the WPPSI-IV, as it is composed of the two subtests that were administered. That she did not trigger a discontinue (which I assume is the meaning of hit the ceiling that you are referencing), suggests that it is reasonable to conclude that information is a low estimate of her true ability, so that testing with a higher ceiling (such as on the WISC-V) may produce a higher VCI. The FRI was not calculated, as it requires both matrix reasoning and picture concepts, but I suspect that she would need at least an 18 on picture concepts to reach 145. In any case, since the VCI is below 145 (though I would not want you to think of this as "only" 140, since that is still extremely high!), it probably makes more sense for DYS purposes to wait a bit, until she is more likely to generate stable test scores, and until she is age-eligible to be assessed with a test with more headroom. Also, the FSIQ would be higher than the GAI only if she scored very well on the WMI and PSI subtests, and her lower block design score suggests that this would not be the case at the moment, at least for PSI, which is fine-motor-involved.

The stability or instability of her scores is more a function of her age and the developmental variability intrinsic thereof, than it is the number of subtests (though the FSIQ is the most psychometrically-stable score, it doesn't add enough to likely raise her score by 11 points).

The WISC-V, like the WPPSI-IV, is normed by age, so yes, it would distinguish between a child age 6-0 and one 6-11. If you choose to do so, when you re-test will depend partly on how much support you end up getting from her current placement (and thus how urgent the need for advocacy backup), and partly on her development and improvement in testability.

aeh - thank you so much! I had a feeling this was the case but I don't always have the knowledge to back it up. We will wait for the WISC-V and see how supportive the school is before pushing our luck We have plenty on our hands at the moment anyway lol.