DS is currently taking Pre-Calculus so should be ready to take Math II in the spring. My question is whether he should wait until high school when he has had Calculus even though Math II only goes up through Pre-Calculus. Another issue is the crazy percentiles - you need to score a perfect 800 to reach around 80th percentile! Do you need a perfect raw score to reach 800 or can you miss a problem or two?

I think when my son took it you could miss 5 or 6 and still get an 800.

I remember picking him up and asking how he did and he said "fine". Then I asked if he answered all of the questions and he said "of course not". I said "Wait, what?!? Why in the world would you not answer all of the questions?" He said "I answered enough to get an 800".

Sure enough, all of the questions he chose to answer were correct and he scored 800. A score of 800 was the 81st percentile for the January 2016 administration.

The Math I Subject test is much less forgiving. I believe he had to answer every question correctly to score an 800. A score of 800 was the 99th percentile for the June 2014 administration.

I have no idea about the percentiles, but fwiw my ds' counselor recommended taking the Math II subject test after pre-calc. There isn't anything further he'd be learning in Calculus that would help on the test. Not sure what grade he's in, but one reason to take it sooner rather than later is that if you leave subject tests until junior year... chances are your ds might also be trying to take SAT/ACT/AP tests etc in the same time frame, and that's just a ton of testing to deal with, so getting what you can out of the way early can be a really good idea

Best wishes,

polarbear

I think that some people are confusing percentile and percentage.

Thanks, CalvinsDad! That is very helpful. Good strategy on your DS' part. My DS is still not the greatest with strategy and has been known at times to get stuck on particular problems rather than moving on efficiently during competition math. That is why I prefer that he take the Math II after it becomes "easy" to answer every question correctly. I will check but I am assuming that there is a penalty for a wrong answer and/or time is tight.

It's a relief that you can miss so many and still score a 800! However, it does beg the question of why they don't use those 5-6 questions to differentiate the top scorers so that you don't have almost twenty percent of students with the same top score.

We are not bothering with Math I since it is low level and not meant for STEM students.

That is crazy - isn't it? I couldn't believe I read it correctly the first time I saw that either. To be fair, mostly students who are strong in math/science take Math II. Other students take Math I. Of course, the percentage of students scoring perfect 800s wouldn't be so high if they limit a score of 800 to students who miss 0-1 questions like on the math portion of SAT I.

That is good advice regarding timing issues for all the different tests in high school! In DS' case, it would be a question of taking it in 8th grade versus 9th grade. One reason I was considering waiting another year is so that he could take two or three subject tests on the same day rather than just one. By 9th grade, he would be qualified to take one or two other subject tests besides Math II. I wasn't so much thinking that he would learn helpful concepts in Calculus but that he may mature mathematically and improve as far as timing and accuracy.

Who? Me?

Yep - at least 19%.

The test may be meaningless for college purposes if taken as an 8th grader. Different colleges have different requirements, but some require that tests were taken in high school (even AP tests).

I know that you have to formally request retention of scores earned prior to 8th grade - we did that for DS' and DD's SAT I scores this past school year. I have not heard of colleges rejecting scores earned prior to 9th. Our state system accepts such scores but I have not checked with potential private schools so that is something to keep in mind.

My DS just completed his MIT application. When he checked to confirm that all of his documents were received, I noticed that his 8th grade SAT scores were listed. What the..!?! I never requested that they be retained or sent to MIT. I just checked my score request confirmation from the 8th grade registration and the only organization listed to send scores to was JHU CTY. How in the world did they get sent to MIT??? At least they were good scores!

My kid just took the October SAT Math II subject test, two years after pre-calc. I was worried he'd be rusty on some of the material on the test, but he got an 800. He has taken Calculus courses continuously since precalc, so most likely the precalc material is reinforced/solidified over time.

I was always told you take it after pre-calculus. My son took it at the end of sophomore year. There is no Calculus on the test & students usually find it easier to take right after they finish that class.

One thing to keep in mind the Subject tests are offered in the fall. Why not take it Sept/Oct of his 9th grade year. As for taking many at once. Why? That just makes them more exhausting and more to study for. I would think it would be to your son's advantage to just take the one. And then take other later when he is ready.

DS is also an 8th grader and taking AoPS precalc now. We have been planning on having him take the Math I and II SAT subject tests at the end of this school year. I just looked on the CollegeBoard website and it indicates that they are both offered in May and June.

I also understood that his scores would be accepted for college apps even though he is taking as an eighth grader - do others think this is not true?

Thinking about it I see no reason why colleges wouldn't accept SAT subject tests taken as an 8th grader.

One possible reason they may no accept SAT scores from 8th grade or below - no photo id is required to test.

If 20% of kids are getting the top score then the test is too easy or poorly designed.

There would be very few scores from before 9th grade out there, since you have to ask to keep those.

I have seen a few colleges say they like (but not a requirement) scores to be from 11th or 12th grade. I believe they want scores that reflect what a student currently knows/recalls. I have heard very advanced kids say they forget a few things on SAT Math II if they take it years after they are frequently performing such calculations. Of course, a quick review of pre-calc/trig facts would solve this. It may be more relevant to something like the World History test. If you took that in 7th grade and never touched that subject again, how much would you remember 5-6 years later?

I think it is okay if a bunch of kids are getting a "top score". The Subject Tests are meant to show a level of understanding/competency in a subject. Sometimes you can place out of courses with a certain Subject Test score (most common in foreign languages). Also, a high score in something like English Lit can indicate that an international applicant has a good command of the language.

That is really weird! Are those scores even visible in your DS' College Board account? DS only has 7th grade SAT I scores in his College Board account because I requested retention of them by the end of the school year. His 6th grade SAT scores (for SET qualification), which I did not retain the year prior, are not even visible in his College Board account.

Amylou, that is my thought - that mastery of the material may become more solid over time. I think that for many high ability kids in particular, it is really easy and quick to merely understand concepts, but it can take time to truly master materials so that they can consistently solve problems, especially non-routine ones, quickly and accurately. Of course, our decision will depend on how " hard" the Math II subject test is for DS. We haven't even look at sample questions yet.

June would be the most convenient time although College Board is now offering a late August date, which would technically be 9th grade. September/October is busy season for music (all-county/all-state auditions/rehearsals, etc.). It was my understanding that most students take three SAT subject tests on a single test date to avoid clogging up too many Saturdays and paying triple registration fees. I just assumed that if he was ready, then there wouldn't be much studying other than a couple of sample tests?

Ruazkaz, what is your reasoning for taking both Math I and Math II? Isn't Math I really trivial for a mathy student?

I don't really know about the eighth grade score issue at individual colleges but I do know of a number of students who are using eighth grade subject scores.

Both DS and DD used official IDs because it was less stressful than explaining the talent search affidavit form to unknowledgeable proctors.

I haven't looked at the test so I don't know how easy it is. However, the issue may just be the raw score to scaled score conversion - missing zero to five/six all yield a "perfect" 800. Perhaps there may be a valid reason why College Board is not differentiating among the top 19 percent. The pool of Math II student is much more select that SAT I or Math I and they may not want to make too fine a distinction if it is irrelevant for program fit purposes.

There is also the fact that only certain colleges require subject tests although more at least consider them. I think it is fine that so many kids get a top score; however, it just creates more pressure to make sure that you score perfectly as well.

Hi Quantum2003 - I have not looked at the Math I and II subject tests closely but thought I had seen various kids post scores on another site I follow where they were taking both. Thanks for pointing out that the Math I is not considered difficult. I will look into it further and if no benefit to take it then will avoid it.

It seems like early 9th grade could be a better time to take the Math II test but it would be a lot more convenient to get it out of the way at the end of 8th grade as it would be very fresh and he has more time. It looks like 9th grade will be quite busy...

This may help answer the question about the subject tests and percentiles: http://www.compassprep.com/whats-a-good-sat-subject-test-score/

Yep, weird. The scores are not visible in his College Board account.