Hi again! I apologize for putting my previous post in this forum. It probably should have gone elsewhere.

I'm looking for explanation/consolation/understanding about the subtest scoring on the ACT as it applies to our son's scores. DS13 took the ACT in October. We just received the scores, and though most of them are fairly high, he has one math subscore that is questionably low. Though it certainly affected his Math score and his Composite score, he still did well overall.

Regardless, he is very interested in applying to the TS program at the UW. They "look for students who score at the 85th percentile on the Reading, Writing, English, and Math subtests" on the ACT. DS scored as follows:

Reading: 31 (94th percentile), subscores: Social Studies/Sciences: 17 (98th percentile), Arts/Literature: 15 (85th percentile)

Combined English/Writing: 28 (89th percentile), Writing subscore: 08 (77th percentile)

English: 30 (94th percentile), subscores: Usage/Mechanics: 16 (93rd percentile), Rhetorical Skills: 15 (93rd percentile)

Math: 24 (74th percentile), subscores: Pre-Alg/Elementary Algebra: 15 (87th percentile), Algebra/Coord. Geometry: 09 (37th percentile!?), Plane Geometry/Trig: 14 (91st percentile)

Science: 24 (79th percentile)

Composite: 27 (89th percentile)

My understanding is that the math subtests are tiered. How is it possible that he did so relatively poorly on the middle tier? How did he do so comparitively well on the third tier? He is a current 8th grader taking 10th grade math. Math has never been his passion. Language Arts always has been. On that note, why is it that "math" seems to be a common focus among gifted advocates?

Back to the ACT questions: Is it common for students to show so much discrepancy in scores? Does anyone know (generally speaking) how institutions will look at scores that are all relatively high in combination with the one low score?

Oh! Additional background: DS took the ACT in February as a 12 yr old and though his scores were good, they were not as good as they are now. Everything went up (some scores went up considerably) with the exception of the Algebra/Coord. Geometry subtest which was the exact same score/percentile as in February. What does that mean?

Also, we haven't gone through the application process for DYS though we have been encouraged to by friends whose children are a part. In looking at the requirements, it looks as though his ACT scores would qualify him, but not in Math (presumably because of the low subtest in Algebra/Coord. Geometry) or Science. Should we have him tested for his IQ score? If so, which exam is best? Should we wait and have him retest on the ACT later?

I'm so sorry for ALL the questions! I'm just at a loss as to what the next proper step is, and also would love to have a better understanding of what DS13's scores really mean.

Thanks in advance for your patience in reading this post and for any answers/opinions you are willing to share!

Hi! Welcome to the board. I don't have any insight into the discrepancies on your DS's scores. However, the ACT numbers do qualify for DYS so I would recommend going forward with the application. Good Luck and congrats on your DS's good scores.

One thing to keep in mind about those subscores is that they're based on a relatively small number of questions. I've got an old ACT here (from a practice book) and according to their scoring table it is only one or two questions per point for each subscore in math. So especially with a time limit, any pattern of skipping could affect one subscore more than another... like if he skipped anything with a graph, that could bring his score way down just in that area.

What I've also noticed with a kid a tutor is that the balance of scores does seem to reflect what we prep with... so when we were focusing on trig, his Plane Geometry/Trig score shot up (again on old practice tests) and the others didn't... so reviewing just the sorts of questions he missed might get a more even score if you retest.

We had a similar situation with DS(9) and the Explore... between his testing at 7 and his testing at 8 his science score just sat there. It was fantastic in either case, but it didn't move! He'll be taking it again this year and the suspense is killing me! LOL But I figure of all the concerns to have, worrying about the difference between great and super-wonderful isn't too bad Of course if we were on the edge of admission to a program like TS it might be more stressful, but it sounds like he's almost in range there and one more try might do it.

For anyone interested in early entrance college programs I found a neat website with a lot of good info. It also charts each program and compares them:

http://www.earlyentrance.org/Home

Thanks 'Neato. I'm passing this on to a friend who asked about this very subject last week.

Hi MomoftheFuture - Welcome! those are great scores - congrats to your DS. I have a little kid (DS4), so I don't have any answers on scores, but just wanted to say hi.


Here's an interesting post addressing verbally gifted kids:

Invisibly Gifted

Look what I found on the FAQ!! Thanks so much for the link I have always thought early college was such a fabulous idea and if things continue on our current path my dd7 might just be a good candidate.

The hardest academic deficit to overcome is often writing ability. The English language is largely an art that is acquired through practice. Many gifted youngsters do possess above grade level writing and reading proficiencies, but those who aren�t effective, efficient writers when they enter college, often find it is very hard to catch up. The humanities have fewer essential facts and don�t require a particular progression of knowledge and thus students rarely suffer any detrimental knowledge gap from missing high school versions of these classes. What the humanities do require is adequate competency in writing, argumentation, and reading.

Bookmarked it! Nothing in our home state though.

Maybe we won't need it...

Argumentation! I'm definately profoundly gifted in that area. Where do I sign up for my special classes?

Seriously, thanks for the invisibly gifted link. Fortunately, both our girls like math, they also seem to have a strong aptitude there. However, their real strengths seem to be in language arts.

Mom of the Future,

It's my understanding that ACT are achievement tests, so if your son had one low score, it's likely that he hasn't learned that material yet. When he goes through a geometry course, I'd expect that score to bounce up. We also saw a big jump from 12 yr old score to 13 yr old score. I'd love to think it's because DS learned so much in that year...

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I appreciate your insight and encouragement. We will look into getting an IQ test done for DS13. Would one be better than another? I know nothing of IQ tests.

I will get in contact with the Robinson Center to see if they recommend retesting on the ACT. My concern is that I know they do not want the kids studying for the exam. DS did not. The scores I posted are his own. He earned them. If he had been exposed to the material, I would imagine that the middle tier math score would have been comparable to the others.

Anyway, thanks again! I'm thrilled to have found you!

Hi MOTF,

I know I'm chiming in late, but I've been away from the computer for a while. I just wanted to compliment your son on his scores - they are great!

My son also took the October ACT as a 12yo. He & your ds actually got exactly the same score breakdown for English! He also did well (although not quite as well as your ds ) but bombed on the Arts & Literature section of the Reading test, which brought his Reading score down to 19 & his composite down to 24. I dunno - maybe he was just getting tired by that stage.

The Transition School sounds fantastic! I wish we had something (anything!) like that in our country. That might be motivation enough for my ds to want to take the test again as a 13yo & try & push his score up a little.

As for the IQ test, I would have thought that at 13, ceiling issues are going to come into play on any current test for a HG kid.

Anyway, qdos to your ds, & best of luck.
Cassandra