Hi everyone,

I'm new and live in Australia but have been lurking for a few weeks now. We've just recently had our DD6 tested (she's one of 4) due to her maths' abilities. She's always had a "thing" for numbers; could count to 100 before 2 years and could do calculations in her head before she started school. She goes to a relatively academic private girls' school and is doing very very well - we decided to get her tested because of how far ahead she as in maths and how very quick she was with her problem solving. She's also a very good reader and has a new interest in the solar system. Luckily for us she's also sociable, has lots of friends and is moderately athletic and very active. The school doesn't have a G and T program until year 3 (she's in her second year of school, so year one) but the teacher her big sister, aged 8, has had this year has additional training in G and T kids and is generally superb with children of all levels.

(Her sister is probably also in the gifted range but for various reasons we've chosen not to test her, at this stage at least. Mainly because her needs are being met overall and because she's got some anxiety issues and perfectionist traits and a "hard" test would bother her).

I have a meeting with the school tomorrow (which her teacher this year suggested) to discuss DD6's needs for next year and am going to ask for this particular teacher and also that she be with one of her friends from this year, who has similar maths' abilities. I'm pretty sure they'll be accommodating.

Prior to this meeting she had a WISC IV done with a great local child psychologist. The results are surprising to me.

FSIQ : 138 (99th centile) (GAI is 135)
Verbal Comprehension : 130 (98th centile)

Similarities 15
Vocab 15
Comprehension 15

Perceptual Reasoning : 129 (97th centile)

Block Design 13
Picture Concepts 16
Matrix Reasoning 15

Working Memory : 141 (99.7th centile)

Digit Span 17
Letter-Number Sequencing 17

Processing Speed : 123 (94the centile)

Coding 16
Symbol Search 12

The FSIQ is pretty much what I was expecting, we knew she was likely gifted but didn't expect her to score in the very high numbers. However I'm genuinely surprised by how close her VC and PR are for such a numbers based kid.

Does it relate to her working memory in some way?

Welcome!

When you express surprise about the VCI and PRI, do you mean that you are surprised that the VCI is this high, or that the PRI is this low?

While waiting for your response, I'll throw out some thoughts:
1. Yes, the high WMI is probably related to the mathy-ness.
2. Sometimes math is what you notice more because language doesn't have the clear benchmarks that math does (other than when you learn to read, and that isn't always a good measure, as I'm sure you've seen from others' accounts).
3. Someday, when the WISC-V reaches your southern shores, you can have her re-assessed, including the new Figure Weights and supplementary Arithmetic subtests, so a Quantitative Reasoning Index can be obtained. You might see more of a difference between verbal and mathematical ability then.

Hi coffee!

FWIW, DS6 had a higher VCI than I expected,too. He presents as a very "mathy" 6-year-old (likes to play human calculator, lately doing division with remainders in his head). He too, had a pretty balanced VCI/PRI on the WISC (was surprised that his VCI actually edged out his PRI a bit, although both were very high). His reasoning scores were his highest, but he also has a very high WMI (not as high as your DD, though!), and a high, but slightly lower, PSI.

Actually, it was good for me to see that he actually had a high VCI - because I previously underestimated this and I do think a high VCI can really help with learning/school tasks. DD9 is CLEARLY verbally strong (and she did in fact, have a VERY, VERY high VCI on the WISC), and because DS seems relatively less strong verbally - I TOTALLY underestimated him.

It is so interesting to get insight into how our DC learn, isn't it?

DS7 is very mathy as well. He pretty much refuses to write anything down. I took him in for an AT eval because of his dyspraxia and the guy tried to get him to use Modmath. We typed in 200/3 as a long division problem and DS immediately wrote 66 R. 2 on the top without showing any work or putting any thought into it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the app! I'm not sure how accurate his WISC scores are since they were done over a year ago after a traumatic brain injury, but it was his PRI that was very high in the 140's and WMI was average. Doesn't make a lot of sense. I think in his case he may have mild attention deficit disorder or the brain injury affected his working memory.

Thanks for that. I was surprised both at the VCI being highish - was expecting it to be lower - and to be honest I was expecting a higher PRI but with the same sort of FSIQ.

Her memory for other things is very good, her teacher says she can remember a list of 40 or so spelling words in order without difficulty (her spelling is also good). However she's very logical and analytical and loves numbers. After a bad day some numbers based puzzles or online maths really cheers her up.

If she needs to be reassessed it would be interesting to see how things pan out with a newer test. I'm really hoping all will be well (naive much?) and retesting won't be necessary. I think she fits the school stereotype of a "gifted" child well though - she's not so gifted that she can't be catered for by an ordinary curriculum with some extension (maths), she's engaging and chatty and she's motivated and works hard.

I can see how her working memory strength would be more obvious with numbers though. She's suddenly found she can read very quickly as well although her big sister can do this as well (and so can I) so it's not unusual for us.

A lot of math ability development is interest driven. It is aided by abstract reasoning, working memory, and innate number sense.

As parents we also see our kids a bit through filters of our own abilities (and perhaps in contrast to older siblings.)

Great, even scores-- fantastic working memory score. Looks like your DC is gifted and in good shape to do well academically.

Hi Coffee, welcome.

I was told recently that in Australia, Psychs are now only reporting confidence intervals rather than fixed scores for the Intellegence assessments. Did you find that getting your child's scores was a problem? I was just curious as we certainly didn't have a problem a few years ago but this appears to be recent.

Thanks for the replies - I did type an earlier reply but it didn't work so I'll try again now...

aeh - I was surprised that the VCI wasn't lower and the PRI wasn't higher. She really does love numbers, she told me that "For me, numbers are like talking". If she's had a bad day online maths or puzzles really cheer her up! I can see how the WMI impacts on her spelling (she's spelling like an 11 1/2 year old, according to the school) and probably on her knowledge base because she's good at retaining what she's read.

Blackcat - an absolutely brilliant friend of mine at med school suffered a mild hypoxic brain injury as a student. He remained as brilliant as ever to her fellow students but did complain that his ability to do maths quickly in his head was impaired.

zen - I had a good think about your post during my run and she does have the ability to do well in maths, esp as she is a motivated learner who works hard. I also agree with the "filters of our own abilities" comment - I was clever at school and ultimately chose a science based degree but my strength was English. DD8 is like I was so I may well be viewing DD6's numerical talent as something more unusual than it really is.

Loy58 - I agree it's good to know that the VCI isn't actually a weakness and I won't downgrade my expectations in that area after all!

Ndw - both personally and professionally all the cofnitive assessments have come with fixed scores. Maybe there's inter state variance?

My meeting today seemed to go well - her teacher this year gushed about her motivation and achievenents and the principal seemed relieved that my demands were only for a particular teacher for next year (she's a phenomenal teacher though)
Cammon - thanks for the perspective! Trying to make sense of the numbers isn't that productive really.