He said he had so much fun taking the test, and he thought he did well on it. Considering the difference between his GATE score (I don't have exact score yet but you needed a 95%) and the private assessor's determination of FSIQ of 138 (with a GAI of 159) I'm frankly shocked.

I understood that the OLSAT might not pick him up, but this was IQ testing for HG which he is. He finished the test, he answered all the questions, he said he loved taking it and thought he did great on it. It was a group test though-but based on his experience it didn't sound like he zoned out or couldn't figure out the answer.

I don't understand.

What instrument did they use? Was it a nonverbal-only assessment, like the NNAT? (Not too many verbal IQ tests can be group-administered.) Was his individually-administered GAI slanted toward verbal? If the answers to the last two questions were both "yes", it may be that this instrument didn't pick up his area of greatest strength. Options for appealing with alternative assessment instruments?

If it was a group test, be sure his results weren't confused with someone else's results. I have had the school tell me stuff about DS which turned out to be some other child's issue and nothing to do with my son at all.

I think you can ask to see the test or test results.

Hi Minx-

Thanks- I asked her twice and confirmed with birthday etc. I am going to request the results today by fax, but I asked her twice ARE YOU SURE? And she said yes.

I will still pray that you are correct, but I'm not getting my hopes up... I did send you a PM about something else, but based on today it's likely a moot point. Good news is, he has the Murderous Maths series now, thanks for the tip

He went to camp today with a book on the solar system and planets....I think I'm going to go cry now.

Is there an appeals process? Will they take into consideration the individually administered scores in your original post (WISC?)?

From what I've heard they don't accept outside testing and appeals are pretty much impossible.. I am going to request an actual copy of his test-I still can't believe it...

Aeh sorry I didn't see your answer til just now.. They wouldn't tell me what test it was but traditionally they use the raven. I will push to get them to give me a copy, I'm not sure they will but I don't think I can believe it unless I see his test with his name on it in his handwriting

I looked back at your earlier post with his WISC scores in it, which reminded me that he does indeed have a large verbal/perceptual split, in the direction which would be greatly to his disadvantage on the Raven's, which is purely nonverbal in nature (well, except insofar as individuals use verbal mediation to solve perceptual reasoning problems).

Actually, his Matrix Reasoning subtest score runs right around that 95-97%ile mark, which means it is not inconceivable that he scored just below the 95%ile cutoff on the Raven's.

LAUSD likely uses the Raven's or NNAT (very similar, but decades newer test) because they have had legal issues in the past with verbally-laden tests, which tend to have more of a cultural bias, usually to the disadvantage of cultural/linguistic minority populations. Since certain ethnicities are already overrepresented in GATE programs, they have to use an instrument which is generally held to be among the more culture-fair out there.

Do you have options for GATE support for specific areas of academic talent?

Aeh thank you so much for all your help -to me and to all the other people confused by testing, truly your time and expertise is very much appreciated... you are really helpful and thank you. What you say makes sense, and because of his FSIQ I wasn't sure he would test as HG, but at least if he got into the gifted program I could show them the other testing to support the HG with his GAI. Since he isn't even gifted by their standards, and they won't likely let me talk to the psychologist, I'm not sure what I can do about it.

Right now I am having a really hard time because I just don't know what to do for my DS. Maybe the right thing is not to do anything. Both my kids have all the gifted characteristics of over excitability and deep thoughts and serious interests that are their own - but without the need or even apparently the desire for accelerated academic advancement. Maybe if my son was in the gate program he would just be taking space from some child who really needed it.

And unfortunately I don't know that he has a specific area of academic talent. Maybe this will all be clearer as he grows up - at least I hope so.

His GAI would actually qualify him for Davidson Young Scholars. Do you have other scores or can you put together a portfolio for Young Scholars? Has anyone had Davidson help them with advocacy? Perhaps that would help your case.

Chana thank you I will look into that

Okay, I feel really really sick now. Something is very wrong. GATE office just told me his score is in low 80s percentile. They are going to send me a breakdown.

Is it possible to have two IQ tests be so completely different? I verbally confirmed with two separate people in GATE office so I don't think it's a mistake.

Also his OLSAT score was 81. Same percentile.

I'm sorry to keep bothering the people on this board - It's just an IQ test but I thought there was supposed to be something about IQ not changing that much..

In a group setting, was timing a factor? In looking back at his earlier results he has a really slow processing speed. That is the only thing that comes to mind.

I do think that if he seems okay in a regular classroom setting, maybe apply to Davidson and see what outside enrichment you can get for him-- maybe more/faster academics isn't what he needs in the first place, YK?

Two things come to mind. First - is it a "fill in the bubble' test? Maybe he somehow got "off" the correct row.

Secondly, maybe he was just having a really off day. One of my sons (age 7), who clearly demonstrated addition fluency during first grade with timed tests, completely blew off that section of the WIAT-III and received a very, very low score for that section. All of the other sections are in the high 90s for percentiles. There is no rational explanation, because he KNOWS his addition facts and passed 26 similar timed tests in school this year very easily. His only explanation is that he has been thinking about "subtraction" a lot lately. Luckily, this doesn't really matter as far as school goes, but I could see how horrible it would be if we were counting on this test to get into a gifted program.

HowlerKarma -

The test was timed but he said he finished about half way through. I was worried about that too, but he did finish it.

momoftwins -

He didn't seem to be having a bad day, in fact he came back saying how much he loved taking the test. It was a bubble test, but it was fill in bubble choice under each question which I would think would be hard to get confused about.

I don't think GATE is a good fit for him, whatever his gifts are they aren't going to be found in PS I guess. I'm starting to think if I can get him accepted to Davidson that would be better.

Thank you both for answering.

Have a look at the results. A workmate's child didn't get into y7/g6 extension (the first time anything is available) and you could see clearly in the tests that he had a weak area. It had been picked up at his IQ test a fee years earlier but the parents but only in a vague "get his eyes checked" kind of way.

At that point it wasn't enough to pull his score down too far but things change.

Will do Puffin. At this point it's not about GATE anymore it's about figuring out what he needs, so I appreciate your suggestion, I will let you know what it says.

This happened to my son when he applied for the GATE program at his school a few years ago. I too was shocked when he was denied with scores below 80%. Luckily when I brought it up with his teacher she recognized something was off since he was one of the top performing students in the class. Turns out it was a scantron error. My son had bubbled in his answers incorrectly. They allowed him to take the test again the following year and he was accepted. If I were you I would push the school to give him another chance. I can't believe they would ignore his IQ results as he is obviously highly gifted and deserves to be included. Good luck.

Thanks brandijocelyn-

I am hoping it is something like that. I guess I will see when I get the breakdown..it really doesn't make sense.

LAF - what was the test? Was it the LAUSD 2nd grade OLSAT? We were warned by our testing psychologist that our DD7, whose profile looks almost exactly like your son's, is unlikely to test well on the OLSAT.

seablue- No it was not the OLSAT, the OLSAT is an achievement test, not an IQ test. He had taken the OLSAT last year and only got an 81. He was advanced in all areas, but not enough for GATE. However, I didn't expect that he would do great on that, the OLSAT catches all the high achievers, the bright kids, plus the gifted kids who are working above grade. It doesn't catch all gifted kids, and it doesn't qualify you for the Highly Gifted schools (only the Intellectual assessment, i.e. IQ test, does that).

He took some kind of IQ test that was likely either the Raven or the NNAT (both IQ tests). I called the GATE office yesterday (they just got back) and they supposedly were going to mail me out the breakdown etc. the same day. I just realized I should check to make sure they sent me everything..for all I know they didn't reread my fax and will just send me the percentile (which I already know).

...and just called them and they only sent out the percentile. Nice lady I talked to said she will have someone send me out the raw scores, but that's all they can do as that's all the info they have. Hopefully they will have time to send them today, in which case I will update this thread tomorrow or Monday when I get it.

LAF, was your ds' WISC testing done privately? If so, does the private psych have any insight or advice re the possibility of appealing to the school district?

polarbear

Hi Polarbear-

Nice GATE office lady actually gave me advice about appealing, but I don't know how much of it is lip service (although she seemed sincere). She said that it's not a done deal that they never allow retests, but DS's teacher and the principal have to get behind the appeal. I can also use his other results from the WISC IV as the basis for an appeal. I also have to check and see if our GATE coordinator passed along any of the information I gave to her regarding DS (re: slow processing, inattentive and anxiety) - this information should have been passed on to the psychologist by the GATE coordinator even if he doesn't have an actual 504 or IEP.

With regard to the private assessor, she had no real advice about appealing, instead she suggested that GATE wasn't all it was cracked up to be (a lot of their funds have been cut, for instance), and that I should look elsewhere. Specifically I should try and get him through public school for elementary then check into private schools that would be a good fit in middle and HS and she suggested some schools.

It sounds like you've gotten great advice LAF - but I wouldn't give up on the GATE appeal. We're not in CA, but we have a similar situation with our gifted options in public school in elementary where we are (and we also had to appeal - maybe I should say scream? - to get our ds included in the program). It really wasn't anything that ever would have made any kind of difference in terms of actual academics but it made a huge difference in ds' life in that he loved just being with the group of higher ability kids - even though it wasn't a group of EG kiddos. Might not be the same type of situation in CA, but otoh, it might be worth an appeal.

One thing that's also most likely important to look into - getting 504 accommodations for the slow processing if it's impacting him in getting his work completed, both on homework, class assignments, and testing. It's possible that's where he was hit when he took the IQ test if any portion of it was timed (same thing with the OLSAT) - I don't honestly know if those tests have timed portions, but eventually he will run head on into most likely achievement tests that are timed by the time he's in upper elementary if not earlier. Likewise work that may be taking him a little bit longer than his peers now is going to morph into a larger time sink once he hits middle school. It's good to get the accommodations in place now, while you have a relatively recent eval noting the issues.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I am curious what schools she suggested. Did she mention Bridges? It's a 2E school in Culver City that sounds promising (excpet for it's price tag). DS's psyc said it would be a good fit for my son. I have been trying to find out more info about it. I might go to one of the fall open houses. Problem is I'm in S. Cal but not LA and it's really a NASTY commute from where I live.

No, but I have a friend whose child goes there. I know he has ADD but I wasn't aware he was gifted (but she's pretty smart so no surprise). I can ask her what her experience has been if you'd like.

It calls itself a 2E (twice-exceptional) school. So I would have thought that you would need to be gifted. That is the kind of information I'm interested in. So yes.. if you don't mind asking I would love to hear what they like about it.

Bridges is a middle school I believe. There are two campuses, the other is in Studio City in the Valley.

LAF, I am very curious about how you are going to proceed, because we are a couple months behind you in the process. We are going to look into the two elementary schools that require the LAUSD-administered IQ test, Eagle Rock and San Jose Elementary. Are you looking at these programs, as well as your school's GATE program? I have the contact information for the coordinator at the high IQ programs - PM me if you want me to share that because that person was very helpful, as was the LAUSD school psychologist I spoke with on the phone.

I imagine our DD7's achievement test scores will be quite different from her WISC-IV results (which were very much like your DS's) because her reading skills are comparatively low (possible reading disability + dysgraphia).

It is a middle school. I have a call into my friend.

Seablue, I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed. My DS9 is okay (well he's got a friend and wants to stay) at the school he is currently in so I just advocated for a teacher I think might be a good fit. I am going to PM you, as I would like to get the info from you

I am STILL waiting for the raw scores from the GATE office- they said they mailed it out on Friday, but it shouldn't take this long to get to me but I don't want to keep badgering them. I'm going to wait until tomorrow and if it doesn't come in tomorrow's mail I will call them again.

According to their Web-Site Bridges is a junior high AND High School. But I don't know anyone who goes there personally and haven't gone to see the school at this time. Perhaps your friends kids are in the middle school.