My almost 8 year was recently tested by the school for follow-up to a mild speech/language disorder and possible emotional disorder (behavior issues in the classroom). He also hates writing. He has a PG older bother and average IQ older sister.

His WISC-IV Scores were:
VCI - 116
PRI - 117
WMI - 102
PSI - 144
Full Scale IQ - 126

The behavior rating scales done during the same timeframe indicated that follow up was needed for possible ADHD, anxiety and/or conduct disorder.

Scores of subtests:
Similarities- 16
Vocabulary- 10
Comprehension- 13
*Information- 15
Block Design- 12
Picture Concepts- 12
Matrix Reasoning- 14
Digit Span- 13
Letter-Number Sequencing- 8
Coding- 18
Symbol Search- 18

From what I have read it seems that a very high PSI would rule out ADHD? Has anyone seen this type of profile before?

The neuropsych who tested my DS at age 6 for ADHD actually seemed more interested in the working memory section of the WISC (I think both are generally impaired with ADHD although there are variations depending on the type of ADHD).

DD8 has a PSI in the 99%, too (but lower than your DS!), and a similar WMI (only slightly higher). I have been very curious about the significance, if any, of this profile myself.

Not diagnosing one way or the other...but sometimes kids with ADHD hyperfocus, which can result in a very good score on measures of cognitive efficiency, such as processing speed. And yes, working memory is the one I usually look at, more so than processing speed. The name ADHD is somewhat misleading, as the deficit is not really in attention per se, but in the regulation of attention--so there are moments when it is difficult to focus and pay attention, and others where the challenge is shifting attention off of something. Or being able to screen in the stimuli in the environment that are worth attention, and screen out background stimuli. In addition, like with everyone else, high interest tasks draw the attention of individuals with ADHD. The two subtests in the PSI only require attention for two minutes at a time, which may be within his range when engaged, even if he actually has ADHD.

I am more struck by the difference between digit span and lns, and between similarities and the other verbal tasks. I assume the latter difference is related to his communication disorder pulling down the verbal area below his true reasoning abilities. The former difference makes me wonder about the digits forwards and backwards subscores, whether he did very well on the former but not the latter?

Thank you for your insight.

The digit forward subscore was 12
The digit backward subscore was 15

Per the tester- All of the testing was done in a environment that was noisier than he normally tests in due to lack of space on the testing days at the school. The tester also thought the verbal subtest score differences could be related to my son's expressive language deficits. (Receptive language is high average with expressive language a low average-- 23 point spread).

Your post caught my attention when I was browsing. When I was in grade 9 I was diagnosed with ADHD and had very similar results to your son!! This is so interesting! My mom just recently showed me my papers from it. My processing speed and visual spatial were the highest and I had a deficit in verbal expression. I'm 24 now. I never would have thought I would find someone with the same diagnosis and iq numbers as me. I was on here looking for my kids, lol. Feel free to message me if you ever have any questions. Take care!

Original poster back after a few years with an additional question.

Can a child with the WISC scores above have dysgraphia? At same time as that IQ testing the brief writing skills score from WJIII was 86 (that was score not percentile). It was noted in reports he had poor fine motor skills and poor writing skills but due to the project based nature of the school of his current school he never had to do much writing. It was suggested in reports to follow up with OT and allow more time for writing tasks. At this time the behaviors were more of the focus so this area was overlooked.

Child has now entered 6th grade at an academic charter school and we find he is struggling with all writing tasks. Upppercase and lowercase letters are mixed. Spelling is inconsistent and poor. Poor spacing with writing. Following margins and writing on lines is impossible. Pencil grasp is wrong and writing seems exhausting and painful. Is this just because he lacks experience in writing or could this be dysgraphia? From what I have researched usually low processing scores are seen with dysgraphia not high ones. Child is able to type but still struggles with generating ideas and correct syntax and grammar.

We are currently looking at having another evaluation done to assess for a possible LD.

milkyway, I have a ds with dysgraphia. I can't answer the question about WISC scores, but I can tell you that the symptoms you've noted above sound very much like dysgraphia. There are different root causes for dysgraphia, and I suspect it's possible that a student with dysgraphia could have a high score on processing speed tasks depending upon the root cause of the student's dysgraphia. Here's one explanation of the different causes of dysgraphia: http://www.sess.ie/categories/specific-learning-disabilities/dysgraphia



Not all children with dysgraphia struggle with generating ideas once they are given a keyboard. My ds is one of the kids who *does* still struggle with generating ideas even with accommodations for his fine motor-related dysgraphia, but the issue he has with generating ideas falls under an additional diagnosis of expressive language disorder.


I think another evaluation is a good idea based on what you've posted above - I'd recommend either a neuropsych eval or an educational eval that takes a global look at your ds rather than focusing on one specific concern and that includes a parent interview where the evaluator reviews your ds' developmental history as well as testing to determine why there are discrepancies in test scores (if any are found). For our ds, we also found that an SLP evaluation was an important piece of the puzzle re understanding his difficulties with written expression and generating ideas - but that was after we'd had a thorough neuropsych eval and understood his challenges. Please keep in mind though - I'm only a parent, not a professional so please don't take my suggestions as professional advice

Best wishes,

polarbear

I should note that I have seen dysgraphic presentation in quite a few students diagnosed with ADHD, especially the more severe ADHD learners. I suspect that the pathway to dysgraphia may be different than in dysgraphia without ADHD, but the end result is much the same.

Also, remember that the fine motor demands of the PSI are much less complex than those involved in letter formation (especially on Symbol Search, which is just a slash). And your DC was tested before age 8, which means that even Coding involved simpler symbols.

I would agree that another comprehensive evaluation may be indicated--with a broad look, rather than preconceived notions. Many of the diagnostic possibilities would not have been evident at the time of the earlier eval, simply for developmental reasons, or because of lower age-expected demands.