My DS8, 2nd grade has a WISC GAI of 148. (PRI 143, VCI 136, WMI 110, PSI 97 due to coding score at 35% percentile) I had him tested with the WJ III normed for grade 2.8 for DYS and received:

Test/cluster. SS(68%) GE
Brief achievement 123. 4.8
Broad reading 125. 5.7
Brief reading 123. 5.6
Basic reading skills 123. 6.8
Brief math 117. 3.1
Brief writing 125. 6.6
Academic skills 127. 5.1
Academic Apps 120. 4.7

Letter-word id 125. 6.4
Reading fluency 124. 6.2
Calculation 128. 4.1
Spelling 119. 5.1
Passage compréhension 112. 4.3
Applied problems 111. 3.6
Writing samples 127. 10.7
Word attack 120. 8.0

English is a second language for my DS. He started learning it in K, so I am blown away that his scores in reading are higher than in any math. I am a bit sad he didn't qualify for DSY, but now have a meeting with his private school to discuss his scores. What do I ask them?? How do you encourage reading? (Most of the discussion I've read here is usually about super advanced math). How do I advocate best for him? Should he be getting enrichment? For what? Any help appreciated! !

In general, parents may wish to follow their child's lead. If the current academics seem to be meeting the child's needs, is there reason to meet with the school to discuss test results? Test results are often used as supplementary material to back a parent up when requesting a specific accommodation to improve the "fit" of the academics or learning environment for their child.

The article The Parenting and Education of Gifted Students by Jan Davidson Ph.D. is positive and informative regarding gifted traits and identification of the gifted. It also mentions that "unchallenged bright students are at risk for frustration, depression, underachievement, and often give up on school as a place of learning" and that they may exhibit "an inability to concentrate on a task that is not intellectually challenging, including repetitious ideas or material presented in small pieces."

This raises awareness of the unfortunate impacts of a learning environment which does not "fit". This information helps alert parents and teachers to signs and symptoms, and also offers suggestions on providing a stimulating, challenging, supportive learning environment.

Information at the following links on the Davidson Database may be of interest...
1- Advocacy - Working with your child's school http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10558.aspx
2- Guidebook - Advocating for Exceptionally Gifted Young People, plus lists of other resources http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/browse_resources_165.aspx

I am just curious about something in your post. You said the test was normed for grade 2.8. My DD had this test to check for possible learning disabilities and the psych didn't mention a particular grade level test. I told him she's in third grade and he had her DOB but was focused on her grade and thought she was actually a year older that she is. I didn't mention she was grade accelerated and should actually be in second grade based on her age. So then when I got the scores, they didn't really make sense. For instance the handwriting score put her at a percentile of 50, but it put her in the middle of third grade for a GE. But most kids who are a few months past their 8th birthday are not in the middle of third grade. That happened for one or two other subtests as well. 50th percentile put her at the middle to end of third grade when technically she's not old enough to be in third grade.

Anyone have any insight into that?

I asked him if he maybe put the wrong age into the scoring system and he said he put in the DOB that I listed on the form. I think he was surprised when I told her that she's not 9 though, she had turned 8 a few months before the test. Previously, when he talked about her he kept referring to her as a "9 year old" and I never bothered to correct him.

In terms of the grade equivalents, I think they are pretty useless and don't mean a whole lot. DD had one grade equivalent level that was post high school, but her standard score only put her at the 80th percentile for that test. So a very high percentage of kids were scoring WAY ahead of their grade in the norming sample for that particular test, at least. What I found most useful was taking the standard scores and looking online to find the corresponding percentile using a chart like this: http://www.medfriendly.com/standardscoretopercentileconversion.html

So a score of 125 in Broad Reading would mean he's at the 95th percentile, or probably one of the top kids in the class. But would 5th grade level books really be appropriate? Maybe or maybe not. The comprehension score is lower. That's what I mean by taking the grade equivalents with a grain of salt. Applied problems would be around the 77th percentile but a lot higher for calculation. So you could think about reasons why there is a difference there (with my DD, she was higher for applied problems than calculation). One thing you could work on with your child, for example, or ask the teacher about, would be to work more on word problems rather than working more on computation, which he is already high on. Or ask about reasons why is applied problems score is so much lower. Does she see evidence of that in class? My DD is the opposite in that she needs to work more on computation. Hope this helps.

You know- I just assumed that it was normed to grade 2. His report has both age 8.7 (he is an older kid because of the birthday cutoff date for the state) and grade 2.8.

Thank you indigo.

The reason why testing was prompted was because I was tired of receiving notes from the teachers of him being unfocused, distracted and not finishing his work. Last year's teacher was worried about ADHD and vision problems (both negative). This year's teacher complains daily about his handwriting and not using capitalization, periods, wordsstucktogether, etc.

In all honesty, with his GAI scores, I was expecting higher achievement scores. If they had been higher, I would have requested some sort of acceleration to see if perhaps he was just bored in class.

With these scores, I'm unsure. I don't know a ton about WJIII scoring, but most of the comments I've read in this forum have scores that are just so much higher... Is acceleration in certain subjects a bad idea?

For me, school was always SO EASY, no studying was ever necessary and getting all As was a given. For DS8, when he looks at it, material seems easy, but all those complaints from the teachers are just worrying me- what if school ends up being too hard?

Oh, ok, so you mean he was in grade 2.8 when he took it. I just can't figure out how my 8 year 3 month child could be both at the 50th percentile and late third grade equivalent for some of the subtests. Unless the test was normed on kids in a certain state like California where 4 year olds go to kindergarten.

ahh.. isnt that because the grade equivalents are based on 50% as opposed to the RPI which is based on 90%?

What's the RPI? Now I'm completely lost.

http://www.riverpub.com/products/wjIIIComplete/pdf/WJ3_ASB_11.pdf

Let me add some further information from scores listed above:

Test/clusters RPI
Brief achievement 100/90
Broad reading 99/90
Brief reading 100/90
Basic reading skills 100/90
Brief math 98/90
Brief writing 99/90
Academic skills 100/90
Academic Apps 98/90

Letter-word id 100/90
Reading fluency 98/90
Calculation 98/90
Spelling 99/90
Passage compréhension 97/90
Applied problems 98/90
Writing samples 99/90
Word attack 100/90

I would appreciate any information on how to enrich a kid with higher scores in reading/writing- Is there any online curriculum or game for this that he can do at home?

Would acceleration in certain subjects make sense or would that make school just too hard?

Depending on the school, the RPI scores may or may not be useful. If the school generally teaches above national norms, they won't be an appropriate tool. However, it does look like it might motivate a discussion with the school for a curriculum-based assessment.

The Iowa Acceleration Scale is a good tool to determine the appropriateness of an acceleration. There are a lot of factors to consider, and test scores are a starting point. That being said, I would, however, first have a discussion with the classroom teacher about how she sees your son and his growth and performance in the classroom.

The best way to enrich a child in reading is to read and to discuss books. If the child doesn't like to read too much on his own, consider books on tape when riding in the car.

right- so I think I'm going to go to the "committee" meeting with the idea of saying:

"I keep getting reports that he is unfocused and needs redirecting to finish his work. He is not struggling academically, but he is not shining either. He is not ADHD and is obviously really smart. WISC report states that he may have trouble coding/writing (some mild form of dysgraphia, perhaps). What accommodations do you, committee members, recommend to better engage him with the curriculum and help him succeed?"

That should state that I am open to recommendations on their side about how to handle him being distracted in class. Those notes always frustrate me because if I am not in class with him, how am I supposed to help him focus and keep him from being distracted? Isn't that the teacher's job, after all, to engage the kids?

Yes it shows your openness. I definitely would discuss accommodations since it has been a chief complaint. A few things you can ask for if they don't offer:
- keyboarding time
- limit markups on capitalization and periods while working on this to try and encourage positive feelings towards writing and be sensitive to self esteem.
- allow grippers, slope writing desk/top, check for posture (fit in ground and proper pencil grip).

I also would discuss enrichment. The goal needs to be to balance his need to remediate writing while still meeting his gifted needs. Does this private school recognize gifted ness and have programs?

I think your approach with the school staff is fine, but I'd recommend you also look a bit deeper into the issues with handwriting that the teacher has noted. Your ds is the same age/grade my ds was when he was diagnosed with dysgraphia - your ds' PSI and WJ-III Achievement scores in writing are higher than my ds' were at that time, but much of what you've written sounds *exactly* like what was happening with my ds - issues with handwriting (spacing, reversals, etc) and reports from his teacher of difficulty staying on task in class etc (his teacher suspected ADHD). With a discrepancy as large as your ds has on his WISC (between VIQ/PRI and PSI), it would be really beneficial to look at further testing to determine *why* there is a large dip in processing subtest scores. For instance, you'd want testing that looks into potential visual issues and fine motor issues (both can be root causes of dysgraphia). Vision issues aren't as simple as going to your regular eye dr and having a checkup and getting a report of 20/40 eyesight etc - they can be issues with tracking/convergence etc or it can be a quirk in how visual information is processed in the brain. Fine motor isn't necessarily something that will be remediated with practice or OT work - with most dysgraphics it's an issue with inability of the brain to develop automaticity, which means the student might never be able to rely on handwriting to fully show their knowledge. Sorry, didn't mean to sound dramatic about the dysgraphia :), but just wanted to point out that you've got two very clear indicators that *might* point to dysgraphia (as well as a tester who suggested it?). You mentioned possibly "minor" dysgraphia, I'd just caution that dysgraphia can *look* minor from the outside looking in, but it can really impact a child in a big way, and 2e kids with high IQ often get lost in the shuffle because they can compensate so well in the early years of school - yet these early years of school are the time you want to catch LDs if they exist and start remediating what you can and accommodating what needs to be accommodated.


Yes, it's the teacher's job to engage the kids, but it's easy as a parent to think that the issues are only revolving around a bright child not being challenged or engaged. I was soooo there myself in 2nd grade! It's also the sign of a good teacher to notice when something's not working well for a student, which it sounds like your ds' teacher has mentioned (handwriting etc). It's highly unlikely that any teacher is going to be able to pull all the pieces of the puzzle together though and be able to tell the parent that their child is dysgraphic or ADHD or needs extra help with (fill in the blank). You're going to be your ds' best advocate as a parent, in seeing the big picture, putting together the data you get from different places (teacher, testing, etc) and coming up with a game plan moving forward.

So yes, there may be things you can do as a parent that will help him be less distracted in class even though you're not there. First step that I think would happen here is a bit more testing to determine why he has the large gap in processing speed. The tests that are typically given to get to the root cause are things like Beery VMI (Visual Motor Integration) and finger-tapping (to see if there is a fine motor issue), possibly an OT eval. Those are tests that weren't offered in our school district and we had to get privately through a neuropsych eval, but they were well worth the extra time/$ and testing. You can also do some informal observations of your own at home that might be helpful - have your ds do a writing assignment using handwriting, then do a similar exercise having him tell you orally - and compare the difference in # of words output + quality of the writing (descriptive detail etc). You can also time his handwriting while copying (or have him write the alphabet, for instance) - basically write something he doesn't have to think much about. Then google "letters per minute + 2nd grade" and compare your ds' handwriting speed to the range of lpm you find onlin for his age/grade. If it's considerably slower, that's another sign of potential dysgraphia.

Hope some of that makes sense!

Best wishes,

polarbear

In addition to polarbear's excellent suggestions, make sure he's getting enough sleep and adequate nutrition. It sounds very basic, but it can make a big difference.