DD8, 3rd grade, took the Explore test for the first time in February. One reason I had her take it was that after her testing for her school's G&T program, I wanted to try a test with a higher ceiling. Also, her Wechsler abbreviated IQ test score was above the DYS minimum. I also wondered whether these scores might help her get into DYS.

Her results were as follows:

English: __
Mathematics: __
Reading: __
Science: __
Composite: 18

We are completely new to the Explore test, and no "interpreting" information was included. I think that comes later from our talent search?

These appear to meet the minimum for 3rd grade. The funny thing is, I've always thought READING was her strongest subject!

I am wondering where to go from here. Do these scores merit showing them to her school? She is in her school's somewhat limited in focus, but decent, G&T program, but she will face retesting in a couple of years (as will all of the students) to keep a spot. I'd love to have something to back me up that she needs the program in the future. Also, I am constantly worried that she is not challenged in her other classes.

If I try to continue to prepare an application for DYS, is it better to try to get a complete IQ test done (she took the abbreviated earlier this year, so figuring out how to best get a full WISC is a tad tricky), or should I opt for a portfolio? DD does not love to write, but maybe she could read or talk about science for a video? If a portfolio is a better option, does anyone have any good suggestions for a portfolio?

Thanks for any insight or suggestions in advance!

Your Explore Score Report should include norm data which compares how your child scored to the 8th graders who took the test in the Fall of 2013.

I was surprised with my DS's Reading score this year too - he scored 2 points lower than last year compared to his English score which went up 5 points.

If you can afford to IQ test, that might be the quickest and easiest. I don't know the rules on the timing of the brief vs. full test, but maybe you could have her tested with one of the other tests. I also think her scores are very strong so you may have luck with the portfolio. Here's a link to a thread with info about portfolio. Good luck!

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....6805/Achievement_Test_and_Portfolio.html

Thank you, Percy. It sounds like your DS had some nice growth in English! Congratulations! Perhaps the reading is tricky for many of the out-of-level kids? It sounds like from posts on this forum that quite a few parents have been surprised at their DC's reading score.

Thank you also to everyone here who helped me decide to have DD take this test. I had been concerned about having her take it, because she is a younger 3rd grader.

I also had rather low expectations after she told me she didn't finish the math or science, and did not even guess on the unfinished answers. She must have managed to get some of the questions she answered correct.

The talent search data would probably help me better put this in perspective. That will be interesting to see.

I do prefer the idea of using scores to a portfolio (feels less subjective, as I am not sure "I" have any clue what DYS would find impressive enough in my DC's portfolio), although DD's recent testing for her school's G&T program is making this quite tricky. I would need to see if I can find someone who understands how to work with her prior tests or will administer a completely different one. The WISC seems to be a "go to" test around here.

If you can afford it, you may want to look into finding a tester to administer the SB5 which apparently has a higher ceiling.

Those scores are very high!

SB5 also has some signficantly mixed results for kids tested HG on older tests and demonstrably HG.

This is just my opinion, but I think your dd's scores are so far above the minimum, that you could use the partial WISC you have, plus some kind of portfolio on her best subject and submit it. I don't think DYS tries to exclude-- I think they try to include.

This is just my opinion, but I think your dd's scores are so far above the minimum, that you could use the partial WISC you have, plus some kind of portfolio on her best subject and submit it. I don't think DYS tries to exclude-- I think they try to include.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Yea, I read that too. I wouldn't say don't look at; I'm just saying be prepared for unexpected results. Here's a thread after I had been doing some research on it, because of DS' results:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/149050/SBV_working_memory_issue.html

Thanks, Zen. Yes, I do not feel great about the SB5 because of what I have heard about it (similar to what you have pointed out here), but also because testers in my area seem to use it only rarely (which I am not very comfortable with).

I've honestly not heard of anyone around here taking any of the other tests listed - the WISC seems to be some sort of "gold standard" here. The WISC would definitely be most useful in the long run here (for whatever purposes going forward), because it seems well-recognized and respected.

Thanks, KADmom and syoblrig.

Thanks to everyone here for your feedback! Much appreciated!!!

Apm221 - PM'd you.

Any additional portfolio suggestions are appreciated (here or by PM). Finding a test/tester is proving to be tricky (I had started looking into this earlier "just in case" DD had the Explore scores she needed). Thanks!

Anyone have any ideas on the difference in emphasis there is on the DYS application between WISCIV and ACT Explore scores? Our 2E DS 9 scored 136 FSIQ on the WISC administered for ADHD diagnostic purposes 1 yr ago. We just got his Explore results, English 17, Math 25, Reading 19, Science 19 and Composite 20. The composite puts him in the 92nd percentile for fall 2013 8th grade students. Based on 2012-13 information, that puts him in the 95th percentile of the eligible 4th graders who took the exam. DYS guidelines say 17 composite is minimum score plus two other scores at or above stated minimums....his composite plus three of his four scores are above DYS requirements

Did they calculate a GAI for the WISC? In instances where this should be done, the GAI may be higher and may be more representative of the person's abilities, and both GAI and FSIQ are acceptable for Davidson.

I'm sure others here can tell you the when, whys and hows of calculating that.

The Explore results you reported are very high.

Also, you could submit the Explore scores and a portfolio.

JAH823,

There are 3 options.

You may submit EXPLORE test result and portfolio (instead of IQ test option). Especially he is very good in Math, you can record how he solve Math problems, etc in portfolio. I would not submit WISC IV. It may go against you. But if his GAI, PRI and VCI is high, it would be OK (because of 2 E).

Do you have the subtest scores for the WISC?

Thanks for the comments. He is closer on one of the WISC scores than on the FSIQ. As with other comments I have read from others, we have not done a very good job of creating 'portfolio' material. One potential issue with the wisc test is that it was done for diagnostic purposes...once in 1st grade, once in third. He was off meds for this last test, and I am sure that may have had a minor impact...enough to possibly cross the threshold of the DYS requirements....we will review with his doctor and possibly re-test. In his case, GAI was only slightly higher...I think 1 point. The Explore test was a real eye opener....the concept of above level testing was new to me...an interesting link from a DITD previous article on the subject http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10468.aspx
Kind of scary how well he did!

Does anyone have a great document for explaining scores to a school/teacher who might be unfamiliar with them?

OR, does anyone want to explain how they approached their school with the scores (particularly schools that might not be terribly familiar with what they are looking at)?

Thanks, again!!!

Loy58, the link below will take you to Duke's site....it is for last years test. The info shown there will be updated for this years test in May. The link in my earlier post does an excellent job of explaining the Talent Search concept....an idea that originally started to test 'precocious' math kids back in the 70's. Take the top 5% kids from a normal bell curve, re-test those kids and take their scores and create a new bell curve. I think your DD scored 18? As a 3rd grader? if so, very amazing. I'm guessing 18 would put her in the 80-85 percentile against the 8th grade students. Using the 2012-2013 info,she would be in the 87th percentile for the 4th grade testers...so few 3rd graders take it that they don't even have a column for that! Using those same figure, she would be in the 62nd percentile for all 3 grades of testers...remember, these kids are the top 5 to 10%

Be prepared for them not know how to proceed with your DD

http://tip.duke.edu/downloads/ts/46/EXPLOREResultsSummary.pdf

am traveling...don't have the sub test scores

Yes, I'm getting that response more than any other. My DD9 (age-wise a 3rd grader, but skipped so is a 4th grader) has a composite score of 21 from this year's test, and no one that I've talked to has much to suggest to me (other than extracurricular enrichment, yada yada yada), even the school district office. I shared results with her teacher who said, "What are you going to do?" (Uh, I was hoping you'd have ideas??) I will sign her up for a summer camp associated with our local talent search (WATS) and hope that she enjoys it (fingers crossed).

I don't have an IQ number for her, so will be needing to put together a portfolio for the DYS application, and really don't know what to put in that. Does it all have to be recent, or can it be from when she was a lot younger? Her TAG advisor gave me a set of problems from a previous Noetic Math competition, so I could have her fill that out and see how she does. (Looks like those can be purchased if you google "noetic learning") She's working on a song parody so maybe I can record that when she's done. Do STAR reading reports showing her advanced reading level count as a good piece to include in her portfolio?

When I talked with an admin at the school district office for TAG, she knew of DYS but didn't know of many DYS kids in our district, just a few here and there. So I don't even know that if DD9 is accepted as a DYS, if that would do us any good at all if there's little or no knowledge of what that means.

JAH823 and Aqx3 - great scores!

Yes, so as I sit here with scores that have completely surprised me (they are as high as I have sometimes "feared" they could be, much like the previous abbreviated Wechsler scores were), as a parent, I feel obligated to do something to somehow help said child, but I really feel clueless. How do we get the schools to see that our already G&T-ID'd or grade skipped, etc. DC (referring to other poster's DC, too) might actually still need MORE?

This ISN'T a matter of wanting to BRAG to the schools ("no, DC isn't just smart, she's REALLY smart" - ugh, no, not what I am trying to say), and I'm afraid that is how it might be taken if presented the wrong way - but how do we get our DC's needs met/at least considered?

I feel like there has to be a document or something out there for parents to share with schools. I have read quite a bit, but no one document seems to concisely capsulize what I need to get across to the school. Maybe wishful thinking...ha ha!

The counselor at our school basically said to go more for the extracurricular stuff. The school prides itself on providing individualized attention...but that only goes for 80-90% of the kids. Not an easy problem....you can imagine your DD 4th grade teacher trying to work with someone who just scored in the 95th percentile for 8th graders? They just can't comprehend it....and it is not like you can have them skip a couple of grades, they are not ready socially. Our DS is 9, and one of the youngest in his class. My DW does a lot of extra schooling at home, and the only other educational component is iMacs, which he does very well in.

forgot to add, on our recent visit with the lower school counselor...he took one look, said that's amazing, and just pushed the report back to me....didn't even want to make a copy. He also said don't even think about sharing it with the teachers. That was real encouraging!

the interesting thing with these kids is I'm sure we have all been pleased when they have scored consistently high scores on grade level exams...but in our school, there are a lot of bright kids who all score at equally high levels...and all the parents think their kids need gifted studies ...this test is different, and yes I know it is only one test....this test levels that playing field by only including the top 5%....you just want to get the schools attention and say 'I know everyone thinks their kid is bright or gifted...here it is on paper!' Kids scoring at this level in 4th grade are being challenged by 8th grade level concepts they haven't been exposed to yet. I think our 2E DS did better on the Explore test than he does on grade level exams because his mind could not wander....he had to stay focused, and that is an example of why he needs more of a challenge.

DS's EXPLORE scores were initially not attended to. Nobody (but us) knew what they meant. EXPLORE was just not a viable way to communicate with an elementary school. We found that an elementary school is also typically just not set up for acceleration-- they're not set up to let a kid do advanced science, for instance, because science instruction is melted into a generalized "theme time," the scheduling of which is particular to that grade.

However, fast forward a few years and we were in a position to ask for a grade acceleration in science-- we were able to refer back to the EXPLORE scores in a way that was understandable (because of the 8th grade norming), and the scores helped with negotiations with the middle school.

Further, DS found the EXPLORE an excellent warm-up for the ACT-- having sat a mini-ACT in 4th meant he was well-prepared for taking the longer version as a middle schooler. It was laid out the same, testing the same kinds of things, all familiar.

The ACT-- now that is apparently something that school district officials DO understand. So: it's been a process of getting it to come into focus.

Duke TIP has posted the 2013-14 Explore Test Results summary. 4 of the 5 percentiles went up slightly for the same scores...very happy in this house tonight!

a quick note....kind of strange, could not access using Chrome, had to go into the site with Firefox....

DeeDee - thank you! It is nice to see that the scores became useful over time, even if they were not initially understood by the school.

JAH823 - congratulations! Wonderful news!