I wanted to get some feed back from all of you that have gifted kids at the high school level, or those that teach gifted programs at high school. In my school district there are no special magnet programs for gifted/high ability learners. The push among parents seems to be directed towards early college / concurrent enrollment high schools.I am not convinced that this is the best option for very gifted learner - I like education to be broadened, not fast forwarded. IB diploma program looks very interesting . Does anyone have any experience, good or bad , as far as HS choices? Private schools are not challenging at all, so this is not an option where I live.
Ania
IB, from what I hear, has a tremendous amount of homework. I would imagine that taking a college course can broaden education. Gap year programs are also important parts of the puzzle. Science fairs and the various academic competitions can be useful. Mentorships and Internships can be used. This isn't a bridge I've crossed yet, but I've been keeping my ears open. My understanding is that in HS it's the extracurriculars that expand horizons. Does your child have a special interest that can be met that way?
Best Wishes,
Trinity
Gifted students often are underserved in middle schools but that is less a problem in high schools. In most high schools, there are the normal track and the honor track. The honor track consists the honor/AP classes (or pre-IB/IB classes if offered). If your kid stays with honor/AP classes, then he should be properly challenged.
IB and AP classes are roughly comparable in the eye of colleges. We did some research on IB vs AP issue before my kids enter high school. In the end, we choose a school with AP program for some other reasons. IB with its international root is an excellent choice if your kids intend to study abroad. But it is less known to US colleges. Ivies know IB well and so do large public universities such as UCs. The problem is with middle-tire colleges. You need to check the college's IB policy. They are all different.
Although they are different, you kid can be successful with either one of them.
Does your child have a special interest that can be met that way?
Trinity [/quote]
Well, my DS is 11 going on 12 so his interests change accordingly. I quess he will be into diffrent things by the time HS comes :-) But I am still entertaining an option of skipping 7th grade, so HS is getting much closer. For now he is into violin and fencing (probably in reversed order :-), also should mention drama. His greatest strength though is math and sciences, although he is not into real problem solving yet.
A HS with a great math teacher and a very strong math team would be my delight for him.
Ania
I did fencing my first year of HS as an afterschool club - what fun!
Grade skips are such a tough decision. If it's any help, I can clearly state that the research that says "skips are much harder if the last year in a building is missed" has shown itself to be true for my son. I still think he's much better off with the skip even missing that bridge to middle school, but if I had the choice to skip him last year, it think (won't ever know) it would have been a smoother transition. Have you looked at the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual? (It's about 20$ from Amazon.com) I found it very interesting,as it gives an excellent explaination of what the various types of tests mean. BTW - It only addresses up to grade 8.
Best Wishes,
trin
Our school is K-8, so by skipping 7th grade I am not forcing him out yet ;-)
I do not know what I will do, for now I am not very thrilled with 7/8 grade team. For example, LA teacher main focus is spelling - and DS always gets the words right without much practicing. Also, next year will be Algebra II and then pre-calc. I do not know if I really wan't to go that way. But my son is getting older and he has more and more to say in that respect, so maybe ultimately it is going to be his choice. Anyway, you are right, it is tough.
Ania
My oldest son goes to high school next year. In our small town there are really 3 choices (excluding religious schools, which I'm not doing). One choice is great academics, military-style boarding school. My son is young because of late summer birthday and a grade skip and he doesn't want to leave home (nor do I want that, but I'd sacrifice if he wanted it), so that's out, at least for a couple years. The other two are kind of like out of a TV show with the slightly privileged and the "other side of the tracks". We live in the area feeding the privileged school, but zone exemption is possible. Believe it or not, the other side of the tracks is supposed to be a better school, particularly for math and sciences. My dilemma is whether I should send him to the other side of the tracks (sorry to keep using that euphemism, but it fits) where he'll encounter gangs (not maybe, but definite) and may not connect with a social group at all, so it'd be purely for the academics, or to the privileged school. I think he'd be able to succeed academically either way, but I don't know whether I'd be doing him a disservice in the big picture of life by sending him to the "other" school. Both schools offer some APs and honors courses. Only the "other" offers science clubs/competitions and they seem to have a better, more interested staff & admin.
I've always scorned parents who make school decisions based on "friends", and here I find myself agonizing on precisely that. My kid is not particularly sociable as I'm sure most PG kids have trouble finding a peer group with common interests, but he's been isolated in small class settings all through his schooling, that I just thought he should have some social opportunities in high school. I guess part of me is also afraid that if he doesn't get some experience with friends and fun in high school, he might go wild in college when he should really focus on academics. Any insights/suggestions?
I think friendships are important, but it's hard to know in advance where the friendships will come from. Can you get a graph of SAT scores from both scores? The means will tell you something, but the tail will tell you more.
What kinds of colleges do kid in the high tail at either school attend, that will also give you some insight.
I wouldn't worry about your child "going wild" in college, since I don't think there is any data on way or the other about what the causes or antecedants of "going wild" are. My guess is that your son is going to have to "cast a wider net" than either high school for friends who get him.
OTOH - active clubs and afterschool activities are another possible way to choose. See if you and your son can sit in on meetings of the Math Clubs and Chess Clubs of both high school. If you bring the pizza, you may get the info you need.
If you son doesn't seem responsible enough to go away to college at HS graduation you'll have to face that when the time comes. How many normal children are "close enough" to ready when they go away to college? Apparently many parents see college as a time when it is safe and appropriate for their children to "go wild." I strongly disagree.
Best Wishes - There are sure to be advantages and disadvantages with either path.
Trinity
Thank you Trinity.
I appreciate your advice. Sometimes these decisions seem so major and then a few years down the line you wonder--Why did I agonize about that so much? I think we'll go visit both schools after the holidays and maybe talk to the gifted advisors at each. See where that leads us.
Cym
My son started High School this year. We live in a rural area with a small High School. They do not have an honors program, no IB program and only limited AP classes. They do have Early Start classes which are also the AP classes. So the student can take the class for college credit and pay the fee or they can take the class and then take the AP exam for credit. Either way they take the class for an entire semester. They run quite slowly and the school will only allow 11th and 12th graders to take them. So we found a better way. We went to homeschooling. He is allowed to take 3 classes at the high school each day. Then he goes to the community college here in town. He can take the same classes they offer at the high school for early start credit, but since the college is on a trimester schedule, they run a lot faster and he can take more classes during the year, which he loves. This also enables him to participate in all the extra-curriculars at the high school and allows him to keep in contact with his friends at school. This program also allows him plenty of time during the week to do any courses he wants to persue at home.
Emh,
I'm so glad that you found a way for your son to get what he needs! Was it difficult to get the highschool to allow him the 3 classes/day at the high school and the extra curriculars? Is it difficult to get the schedual to fit? How lucky that in your Rural area, there is a community college within driving distance! Did you, or the school know other students who had taken this path? Was it difficult to get your friends and relatives "on board?" What kind of college experience are you hoping for for your son?
Smiles,
Trinity
Hi Trinity,
Our school district has been very good in supporting homeschoolers. The homeschoolers have the option of doing what is called dual-enrollment here with the public High School. The school system, probably more because they need extra students than because they love homeschoolers, allows the homeschoolers to take 2 academic classes and one elective class at the high school. If they take advantage of this option then they are also allowed to do extra-curriculars as well. The truth is though, they should be allowing the students to take up to 5 classes a day, but they have stubbornly held it to 3. So far we haven't had a problem with getting classes to work with his CC schedule. He takes his High School classes in the morning and his CC classes in the afternoon at the college annex in town. Eventually he will run out of classes here in town and then will have to travel about 20 minutes to the CC campus. He can also take classes on line from the CC. These have been great for classes that are required for his degree program but are not something that he needs to spend a lot of time on in a classroom. For example he is taking a basic computer course this term that is a prereq. for other computer courses he wants to take. It's also helpful if there is a class he wants to take but won't fit in his schedule. Such as a physics course he took last term.
I did know other homeschoolers who had taken classes at the CC but they were all high school seniors. When my son talked me into calling the CC to ask if he could take a course I thought they would laugh at me. He was only 11. But the Dean took me seriously and said she would like to meet him in person. So we went to the college for what I thought would be just a discussion on possible future classes. Well, she must have done some homework because when we got to the meeting she knew alot about him and had an entire orientation package waiting for him and welcomed him with open arms. She said they had never had a student that young but had confidence he would do well. After all the stone walling we got from our elementary and middle school, she was a wonderful breath of fresh air and has been great in helping him get the classes he needs.
As far as friends and relatives go, they saw his giftedness way before I did, so they thought it was only natural that he should be doing this. I think I'm usually more surprised that they don't think its odd that I have a 13yr old kid with a degree program. I don't know what his future college will be. He wants to go to MIT but I don't know how that is going to work yet. We're just taking it one year at a time.
Eileen
Eileen, it sounds like things are going well for your son. For anyone else who reads this and is also from a small town, perhaps without a community college (it's 200 miles to the nearest college from my town) I would like to suggest, in addition to the homeschooling, that some retired folks make great tutors. Retired teachers are a particularly good choice, and you may be pleased to find that they'll teach for free. The best teachers, when they retire, often miss teaching. What a gift for them to have the opportunity to work with your bright young person!
Golly Rabbit -
How did you get the nerve to ask some of the retired folks to tutor? I know that there are retired folks here in this town that would be wonderful tutors for my DS10, but I just can't get myself to take the first step.
Hi Eileen -
I'm so glad your son's education is working out. My DS10 just asked me yesterday, isn't there anyway we can homeschool? With my 7-6pm schedual, I don't see how, but I'm keeping my eye on the local cc for the future.
Trinity
Hi, I am new to all this but have enjoyed reading this. I am looking for resources and guidance to help my 15 year old son who wasn't challenged in elementary, or now two separate private schools. He shows no interest in school, doesn't socialize - prefering to noodle on his guitar or design on his computer at home with us. He is in honors courses and the teachers tell us he is to be tracked for AP course work, but there is a serious breakdown here! Our rural high school doesn't have anything in technology or math and science. Maybe humanities, History is an interest as well as graphic design and technology. I don't have any thunderolts to cause schools to want to do anything special for him, where it sounds like your son's abilities preceeded him to CC. Were his test results from the public schools off the chart? Were you doing any specific homeschool curricula, and are these cooperative schools in Connecticut? Love to hear from you. Thanks
Hi Cmom,
Well my first though is that summertime is comming - is a summer sleepaway program a possibility? The talent searches do them, and there is davidson's Think Summer Institute. Has he taken the SAT or ACT?
Is there a Community College around you?
There are plenty of self teaching AP prep courses and materials on the WEB - would he do an self study in AP computer-something and take the test at your local test center?
Is he willing to attend his current school? Does he like it? Maybe all that is needed is getting him a Mentor - Internet or in-real-life, and getting him in direction to meet some like minded friends? Is Early College or Boarding school an option?
In CT we have a Sudbury school which is an unusual but potentially interesting option. The kids basically assume all responsibility for what they want to learn and contract the talent. If we were closer geographically, I would have pushed for this option.
My son is at a private school, prep-type with a grade skip. Since he came over after 4th grade, his school grades were pretty much all As even with Serious Underachievment. We had IQ and achievement tests, twice, which didn't help (much) at the public school, but by the time we got to the private school, the gradeskip occured within 10 days of the request. Very strange after slogging it out in the public school for a whole year.
Check if your rural high school offers online or distance classes - many do.
Whats going on for DS "as a person?"
Love and More Love,
Trinity
Trinity-
To answer your question:
I found a notice posted by a retired English teacher at our library. He was offering help with SAT prep. I called him up and said "Hey...".
He LOVES working with my kids because they are interested in what he has to teach.
I found a math tutor through a friend - when I was introduced I said "Oh, you're a teacher??? Well, I've been looking for someone..."
I would encourage you just to approach the people you mention. Really, good teachers often miss teaching when they retire! If you think your son would be at all attentive, I'd go ahead and do it - you are offering to do the retired teacher a favor!
I teach at an arts magnet school. Kids choose to specialize in one of 6 areas: math/science, dance, creative writing, music, theatre arts, or visual arts. It's a public school, so kids still get the state mandated curriculum. We do offer a lot of AP courses, too. The teachers here are very creative. We have to be creative because we've got a lot of gifted and high-achieving kids. It's a great program.
The IB schools in our area have a great reputation and are not really known for giving an unmanageable amount of work. I would check out this program. Take a list of questions with you!
Pinkpanther:
I posted a link to an interesting article in another thread.
Here it is:
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.phpI would be very interested in your thoughts, as a math educator.
Ania
We definitely buy into this at my school. Our math/science curriculum features AP courses, but we go well beyond the scope of the AP topics, digging deeper for further understanding. Problem solving is a huge aspect of our curriculum. I teach discrete math, and I focus my course on proof and problem solving. My goal is to get the students to think creatively about math and to communicate effectively using mathematical symbols and terminology. In fact, we use the AOPS series with our math team students. I think the term 'calculus trap' is an unfortunate label, though.
((Electric sparks from drooling on keyboard))
Wow! What part of the country are you in? Am I too old to go?
Trin
Hummm, Has your school ever considered developing an online education component for kids in other locations? Perhaps during afterschool hours?
Trin
I agree that it sounds as calculus was something sinister...But the point they make is so true in my son's case. All the school has known so far was to push forward, which I am grateful for, but we also realize the need to go deep, as deep as time allows. Unfortunately, time does not allow to solve any challenge problems from textbooks. Thus the work at home.
Pinkpanther - I would love to learn more about your program. Does the school hava a website with teacher pages? I find that I am learning tons by looking at assignments given at different schools. Private message me with this if you wish.
I understand the time issue. That's why our kids spend double periods in their specialty area. For math/science majors, that means 1.5 hours in math per day, so there is plenty of time for advanced problems, hands-on explorations, discussions, etc.
The website is asfa.k12.al.us. I don't know if you can access Sharepoint (teacher pages) as a guest. Let me know if you need any additional info.
THANK YOU ALL!
WONDERFUL and stimulating conversation here.... I will add my thoughts....My son attended a great K thru 7th grade small private school, for 8th HE opted to go to a new public junior high, that was a feeder school for a terrific group of new high schools in our city. He is a genuinely brilliant musician and writer, and it has been a considerable effort to provide him with learning opportunities that match his curiosity... but we keep trying...well had a great 8th grade experience, spreading his wings in activism, which is deepest held joy (with music). Then, the high school he attends was problematic from day one... I would say that, as parents, we saw this right away and stepped in to advocate (beside him, as we felt that he was mature enough to speak for himself about the problems he was having)by doing this early, and focusing on solutions, the school amazed us by bumping him up to the sophomore level to solve the problems... which actually has worked quite well.... moral of the story: don't be afraid to articulate issues early emough in a semester to get a positive result.. this school clearly saw our son's value as a student and a person .. and so they acted to help him in any way they could.. he took an online math course to accomodate the freshman math.. and will take a comm. coll. class in history.. ALL of the school's courses are "ap"... but this is highly unusual in our big state (CA)... and, I believe most states... our son wants greater challenges in reading and writing, so he is taking a Johns Hopkins onlline for that... but keeping the homework level low allows him to put emphasis on practice time for his music and performances... man, and we thought parenting a gifted child would be easy! Certainly it involves copious amounts of travel time... AND, he feels he doesn't have his own "group".. a bit left out--although he is extremely social-- his teachers are excellent this year... they said that many of his questions and discussion points are not understood by the class.. instead of making him feel left out, they choose to spend the time talking it out with him... either in or out... of class... however, we as parents make time each day for in-depth discussion, and that, I think, has made all the difference... all best, I am so grateful to have found this site...
Welcome Foxter!
I'm glad you have found us and so glad to hear that you've found ways to meet your son's needs!
I was just relistening to "A Wrinkle in Time" and wishing that "Meg Murry's Mom" had been able to help her the way you helped your son! Of course that book was published in 1962 - so I would hope we've come a ways since then. ((big smile))
Best Wishes,
Trinity
I am resurrecting this thread as it is very dear to my heart.
Any new HS parents here?
How are you guys managing GT in HS?
To Moderator - since this forum is to be deleted, can we move this thread into Age Specific forum?
Tell me more about that required course and testing out - I will need info like that.
I don't know if you were talking about testing out in these terms, but we are just developing assessments for appropriate placement. It's no problem to skip Alg 1 and go to Alg 2 in high school, but so far we haven't been able to skip Alg 2 (for kids who have taken it as middle schoolers). It'd be great to test out of English 9 and go straight to English 10 (what I tried to negotiate). I would have loved them to have an assessment so DS could have tested out of the state-specific history course that is also required for 7th graders (making kids spend 2 YRS learning state-specific history within a 2 yr period!) and go right to World History. Maybe some of these assessments will be in place for the next DS...
Here's something.
DS13 took a summer institute course last summer (Microeconomics). The professor suggested that he take the AP Exam this spring (almost a year later) as an additional challenge and possible way to place out of entry-level Micro course in college. DS said he wanted to do it and even though the course isn't taught in our district, they ordered the exam for him. I bought him a study guide months ago but he didn't start studying until a few weeks ago. He took the test yesterday and was more excited than I've seen him all year. He said "This is cool"--that, from my kid who never tells me anything positive these days means a lot. I don't know if he did well or not, but I am so pleased that he took it and challenged himself and was happy and has the experience of AP exam and maybe will want to take several more, even if his classes aren't officially AP...kind of enhanced, independent study.
Thanks, Dottie, I am counting the days till freshman year is over (only finals to go) and I can not wait and hope DS will make the big final push to get everything together. The lack of control for involved parent is very frustrating from my point of view.
I'm not sure if it's because he's young, having skipped & being late summer birthday, or his laid-back attitude, but it does concern me. It could also be hormones. He was very organized in middle school, timely in turning in assignments; but this year, he leaves everything to the last possible moment (perhaps to be entertained by apoplectic mom). For instance, today is the last day of classes with lots of assignments due. He discovered at 8:30 pm last night that he had left his folder with all his work somewhere. My questions are, "Why didn't you make sure you had everything you needed for this last crunch?" "Why did you not check till 8:30 pm?" "Why were these things done this past weekend when we had plenty of time, so you didn't have to wait till the day before?" and many more! I know he seriously cares about his grades but his heart and his actions don't seem to align.
Anyway, I am hoping he matures over the summer because I don't know if I can face another year like this one.
Dottie and Cym - I woud LOVE to have coffee with you and chat!
I am extremely busy today, online for just a second while paying bills
I had to point one thing though, re:timing. Make sure to schedule Sat II Math after the student takes pre-calc. It is apparently the best time to do it!
Off and away. I am curious to see how this thread progresses with me being away.
Have a great summer guys:)
Ooooohhh a European vacation! I'm so jealous!!! Do have a wonderful and safe trip Ania!!!!
Have a great time!