My neighbor has a seven year old daughter who has always been a bit foggy. In K she was identified for special ed and reading support since she could not pass Dibels and was having trouble with phonemic awareness. In first, she received more services and could not pass timed math tests and was not meeting grade level expectations for reading. Her parents finally took her for an outside assessment and the psychologist said that she has ADD (that was obvious) but that her IQ is in the high nineties. I didn't want to be rude, but I had to wonder if he meant high nineties as a final number not as a percentile, but the mom thought he meant percentiles. The written test will be sent out soon. I am floored. I have never seen anything that glimmers of giftedness in seven years. This psychologist also offers some alternative treatments for ADD. Every single test that was given at school had low scores, but every test he gave had high scores. Any thoughts on this "mystery"? Could the ADD be that thick that not one glimmer of brillance shown through in another circumstance, or might the mom be misunderstanding something, or could this guy be playing them? We are close neighbors and she watches my child a lot so now I am hearing quite abit about how smart her child is, but honestly, there are no outward signs. I am sure she will have an uphill battle with the school that has seen nothing on their own to detct brilliance. He tester did say she had a very low processing rate. I guess I am wondering if anyone else had a child that had such dramatic differences in testing from situation to situation.

I think it's very possible that the child scored in the high ninety percentile on the subtests that best determine giftedness and that the processing speed and working memory could be lower to the point they may mask outward signs of giftedness--at least temporarily.
It's also possible the whole score was in the high 90%.
Giftedness doesn't always mean early reading and fast at math.

My daughter's scores range from above the 99th percentile to below the 1st percentile. Some people see only the giftedness and refuse to acknowledge all the LD issues. Some see only the LD stuff and think it is crazy that anyone could possible consider this child gifted.

Slow processing speed makes a HUGE difference. Anything is possible...

At age seven you wouldn't have seen any glimmers of giftedness in my son either.

My 2E son was as you describe this child. Most people thought he was slow and generally not overly with it. I occasionally saw flashes of brilliance, but they were very few and very far between. On the first IQ test he took at age seven, he did indeed score in the high nineties--and I *don't* mean percentile-wise. The scores were uniformly low, but processing speed scores were through the floor.

Five years later, he was diagnosed with dyslexia and ADD. He also had an HGish GAI. The flashes of brilliance have gotten more frequent though certain things will always be more difficult for him.

I have a friend that went from being in the special ed class to being in the gifted class.

He made the switch around second grade.

I wouldn't assume that the school has done a lot of testing (although you might know for sure, since you have a child at the school). Our school doesn't test everyone until 2nd or 3rd grade (you can be tested before, but only if identified). I have zero experience with ADD, but one of my sons flew well under the radar due to apraxia. His difficulties writing made timed tests very hard, and his spontaneous reading made understanding phonics slow at first (he never had to sound it out). His (lack of) fluency ensured he qualified for the special reading program, even though he read incredibly advanced books. He had an aide in K and 1 and received OT and PT through 3rd. He just got off his IEP in 7th, and I am just fully beginning to accept that everyone at school thinks he's gifted. He was initially identified in 2nd grade, but it took several years before I think everyone really believed it. It took a while at the MS for me to realize I didn't have to "defend" his intelligence.

I completely understand that you care for your neighbor and don't want her to get scammed, which is admirable, but I think this is something she'll need to figure out on her own. I'm sure her sharing will die down (at least I hope it will) but right now she's probably just really excited to consider that her daughter is possibly gifted after the mom has watched her struggling with school.

Well, the former is definitely a red flag... and therefore, your skepticism about the latter point is probably not without merit, either.

My personal belief is that you never go to a diagnostician who is selling cures for those diagnoses which are not available elsewhere... without at the very least getting a second opinion from someone who is NOT selling anything else.



Unfortunately, there ARE some unscrupulous people out there, and some of them have fancy titles and nice offices. Sadly, it sounds as though your radar is going off here, and while it's possible that this is a 2e child who is trapped by very real disabling conditions which are masking his/her true intellectual gifts... it's also possible that this mom just got sold something she would desperately like to believe is true, by someone who is telling her so in order to get her to keep coming back (and writing checks). The more unfortunate thing is that the school may not be of much assistance in sorting it, either, given how little help they are to 2E children.

What treatment is being recommended? Maybe someone here knows something about it.

thanks everyone. This child is the sweetest, kindest child ever, so it would be wonderful for her to have this latent potential that may show itself once the ADD is addressed. Anyway, the treatment is neurofeedback paid for out of pocket. They also offer tutoring over the summer, paid out of pocket. They have deep pockets and want to help their child, and if they chose to do those things, I can understand. I just was floored when they said she tested to high because they had considered holding her back. The parents are strongly against using medication, but the poor child just drifts off into a fog so often, even during parties and play, not to mention during tests. If she is truly gifted, it is sad that it is behind this screen. They are very close to and hope the testing was accurate and the tester advises them in a beneficial way.

Totally agree.

DeeDee

I think we don't have enough information to assume that this psychologist is selling anything, or even how alternative their suggestions actually are. It might be as simple as CBT as an ALTERNATIVE to medication... Or occupational therapy to see if it helps first... I think really we are way, wayyyy out into "not enough information" territory here.

That said, absolutely agree with the sentiment of HKs post 100%. And second opinions are always a good thing even when you really LIKE the first one.

As I posted above, it is absolutely possible for a 2E kid to proceed through seven years of life appearing less than gifted.

But I did want to mention that if a child's scores don't confirm what a parent already knows about that child, then those scores may be wrong or at least not telling the whole story.

But I'm talking about a parent here, not someone with less intimate knowledge of the child.

ShiningStars, as the parent of two children who were thought to have ADHD and later found to have other issues, I wonder a bit about the actual ADHD diagnosis - please know I realize I can't diagnose through the computer screen and a few lines in one post - but the description of the girl "drifting off into a fog" might be something other than ADHD. Do you know if she's ever had a full neuropsych veal? If she hadn't, this is a good age to do a full eval.

The other thing that might be helpful to her mom is if she or you could post the names of the tests she's scored high vs low on - it really isn't all that unbelievable that a 2e child would test extremely high on some tests and extremely low on others - I've had that happen with all three of my children. Not all tests test the same abilities or capabilities or learned knowledge, and I've found testing to be especially puzzling and challenging to interpret for my dd who has a challenge with an ability that impacts reading.

I also have experienced thinking one of my children *wasn't* all that bright, and then having her score high on the WISC. All of a sudden thinking she was "gifted" actually changed the way I talked to her, my expectations, and how I interacted with her. It was amazing how differently *she* reacted in return. I think most of us have preconceived ideas about what "gifted looks like" but from what I've seen - it can "look like" just about anything - all kids are so very different.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I agree with Polarbear. "Drifting off into a fog" can be due to a number of reasons, not necessarily ADHD.

Neurofeedback can give you a more definitive, objective answer as to whether ADHD is present or not based on actual brain wave activity. It's now being used to treat ADHD and other brain-based issues. My ds7 is 2e and has been in/out of neurofeedback for the past year.

I had no idea my ds was eg/pg until I placed him in a private gifted school after he shortly turned 5 and started to read/write more. Up until 5 and pre-k, he had been in special needs for pre-k. Bright, yes. But giftedness, we didn't have much evidence until he started to read/write more from vision therapy.

Ds, too, was diagnosed as having ADHD. I went to a 2e specialist last June and we talked about neurofeedback then based on comments on read on this forum. I have since learned that the ADHD diagnosis was a misdiagnosis. So I'm glad we didn't rush to medicate him or listen to what many people suggested we do.

when you say fog, you are sure she's not having absence seizures, right?

MotherofToddler, they did wonder about those, but the psychologist they saw thought it was ADD not absence seizures. If someone talks to her, she may not respond, or she turns her head slowly and may respond slowly like she is moving through tar if that makes any sense. This Dr. did extensive testing and seems set on the ADD diagnosis. I am just a bystander who was curious about such a turn of events. The mom never suspected giftedness at all. As far as I know, they may not have received the full report yet. She hasn't brought it up since. I guess it isn't really my business, so I won't bring it up again.