You'll have to forgive me because I'm not sure which test the school psychologist gave my DS4 and I'm not even sure of the exact scores/sections, but I'm curious about how to interpret this.

My son's FSIQ came in at 136.

There were three sections to the test. I believe he scored only 115 on the verbal; 120-something on the part who's name I can't remember; and 146 on the visual-spatial section. His visual-spatial score was the highest the psychologist had ever seen.

I realize that there are issues with testing a child so young, but he's been having problems in his (Montessori) preschool that I thought were due to giftedness and wanted to have him tested. I'm trying to decide the best course of action for next year -- whether to keep him in the Montessori program (which is expensive) or attempt homeschooling.

My questions about these results are:
1. Do you think that the "low" score in verbal indicates a potential disability when compared with his higher visual-spatial score, or is this just a strength-weakness thing?

2. His FSIQ would put him in a G or MG category, but the higher visual-spatial score seems more like EG. (Since I don't know the specific test she used, it's hard to get specific about this.) My understanding is that the brain of an EG child works differently than a G or MG child, so I'm wondering if when teaching him, I (or the teacher) should consider him EG or G. Does that make sense? I haven't gotten far enough in my research to understand exactly how you would teach the levels of giftedness differently; just that they learn differently.

Thanks for any help!

At 4 relatively poor performance on the verbal section, compared to his visual spatial score could indicate anything from not liking to talk to adults he doesn't know through simply more age appropriate skills in that area (which have yet to take off but could yet) and up to an actual sign of a problem. What did the psychologist think? You took him because he's having problems - is he having problems because he's very gifted or because very uneven development is causing extreme frustration (and he's very gifted in some domains)? That's what the psychologist is being paid to help you figure out!

I had similar scores for myself, and personally I find it to be a challenge to have such a massive discrepancy (of around 45) I feel I should have had some sort of help through school, since I learn in such a different way. I wouldn't say I had a "disability", as I was still bright in other areas. I feel like my high PRI actually lifted my other areas, such as writing and sports. I just had trouble listening to verbal instruction, and felt really stupid for not getting it. So, not really a disability, rather a need to absorb information in a different way (idk, maybe that is a disability LOL).

It is a strength/weakness thing; I am definitely a visual learner. A couple of tricks I discovered are silly things, like when I watch a movie I find it hard to listen as I am too focused on watching everything. So I find it very helpful to watch movies or tv with the subtitles on. And with university lectures, it helped to have a transcript to read whilst listening; and I did a lot of concept maps. Nothing to do with a four year old, however

I don't know if this makes sense, but I was so brilliant with some things, and NOT average with others, despite my average scores with VCI and WMI. Aside from the listening problem, I was still a straight A student, until the point of boredom at school and the school's refusal for me to skip a year really ruined things.

My DD's FSIQ was similar, and the profile was also similar, though the spread was a bit less extreme (verbal in the 120s, visual around 142). And in her case, that's an accurate profile, highlighting her strengths and weaknesses.

You can tell you have a visual-spatial processor in your house when, every time she tells an anecdote, she tries to reenact it with whatever objects are at hand (stuffed animals, salt/pepper shakers, etc.). She was doing this starting around 3.

Thanks! These are questions I came up with after speaking with the psychologist and haven't talked to her again yet. I'm sort of waiting for her full report.

He's not having behavior problems at school -- he just complains that he hates it. To the point of throwing tantrums when it's time to go to school. I suspected that it was because of giftedness and being forced to do repetitive work. For example, he's working on addition and has this little book with all the 1-10 addition variations. The teacher is having him repeat the entire book of sums to fix the 15 problems he got wrong (including 10 on one page where he was clearly not paying attention or trying to cheat something).

So far, I'm still not sure that the teacher is getting that his brain is different than other kids', despite her many years of teaching. I gave her an article about it that she'll hopefully read during the break. I'm leaning toward homeschooling next year.

I appreciate the first-hand insight into the mind of a v-s learner!

The "visual spatial learner" concept is not well-supported in the literature, as far as I know, with the primary source of support being assertions by Linda Silverman that are not backed by rigorous research. Still, if you wind up homeschooling and have had adequate testing done to rule out learning disabilities, no harm done.

Squishys - I recall something about a discrepancy of two (three?) or more standard deviations (15 pts per) between high and low scores qualifying as a disability, regardless of how high the "low" is. Not sure if it's 2 or 3 SDs.

So you can be well above average in your weakness, but as long as it's at least 2 SDs below your strength(s), it's still considered a disability.

(FWIW my poor DS had such a huge discrepancy "consistent with only 7% of the population" that the psych. couldn't even calculate his IQ.)

EDIT - it's TWO SDs... (just looked it up in my school notes ) We discussed it in our 3 hour session on gifted. Not NEARLY enough time to adequately cover the topic...

Oh. Okay, then I guess I do have a learning disability. FWIW, I didn't have trouble learning in any area; despite some average scores, I did above average at school. Where I did have trouble was in the confidence, concentration and motivation area- which was more of an environmental factor for me.

This is why I used the term "visual spatial processor" instead. The idea that people can be sorted into visual/aural/kinesthetic learning styles is a false trinary(?), because people learn in all of the modes, and some are more appropriate than others in certain contexts.

Having a preferred mode of thinking is a whole different thing.

Exactly right in my opinion, Dude.

I think it's important to note that a discrepancy *might* be due to an LD, but it could exist in an individual without the presence of an LD. Typically what happens with an LD diagnosis is that a person will have some type of struggle or area of weakness, that might (or might not) show as a discrepancy in IQ subtest scores or ability vs achievement scores - when the discrepancy is noted combined with observations of a challenge, *then* additional testing is conducted to determine the nature of the discrepancy and challenges. It's not as straightforward as "a discrepancy of > 30 points = LD" and likewise, not a guarantee that there's an LD simply because there is a discrepancy.

polarbear

I think you'll understand a lot more about what the psych found once you actually meet with him/her My advice is to think through the complaints about school - what is it specifically that your ds doesn't like about school, have you watched him at school yourself? What do his teachers say etc? Have that fresh in your mind when you go in for your post-testing review with the psych.

I also wanted to note - your ds is very young, and as another poster replied, there could be many *many* different reasons that one subtest score was much higher or lower than another. At the same time, try to look at what's happening at school with an open mind - don't be too quick to assume it's all just a bored gifted kid. My ds has an LD that causes a discrepancy in IQ subtest scores... he was so obviously gifted when he was 5 years old and first tested (based on listening to him talk) that both myself and the psych who tested him put off a large discrepancy in scores as due to gifted behaviors while taking the test. As ds went on to Kindergarten and then 1/2 grade, he had an undiagnosed LD, and I was still seeing an obviously super-intelligent kid, so any signs of complaints, tantrums, etc I put off to his being bored with what should be easy work at school. Thing is, that work wasn't easy at all for him.

Soooooooo..... my suggestion is - listen to what the psych has to say about the discrepancies. If she suggests it's just an issue of having not done his best due to being distracted or some other reason etc - ask if there is any other type of test she can administer to verify that it was just a one-test fluke. Or if she says that it might be due to an LD or might not but it's too early to tell because he's so young, ask what other types of tests might be used to follow-up on what's going on. I wouldn't be satisfied just leaving it as an unknown or assuming he will test differently/higher later on *when* there is an issue with complaints about school happening already. He might be just super-bright and bored or there might be something else going on. If he's just super-bright and bored, nothing bad is going to happen by reassuring yourself through a closer look that that is all it is. If there is more to it, you'll be soooo happy that you took the time to figure it out now instead of waiting a few years.

Best wishes,

polarbear

And apparently, it's a different thing that actually has scientific support:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090325091834.htm


I would say that, if you hear or read verbal information, convert it into imagery, and learn from it, you're still learning verbally, even while still employing a preferred visual processing mode. Or vice-versa.

Could you put him in a play based pre school. 4 is awful young to be asked to do boring worksheets over and over again. You can teach him stuff at home and he can go to school to play.

I come from a country where academics before five are frowned upon but it seems to me if you can delay the boredom a bit longer it will give you more time to sort things out.