Are there any parents of grade skipped teen (or older) girls on this board? Now that my oldest is in high school, the subject of dating is becoming more real. She had a "boyfriend" for a bit in middle school, but it was pretty innocent and he was the youngest in grade (bd on the day of the school entry cut-off) so he was only a year older than dd. Dd's bd is very close to the cut date as well, which made her the youngest in grade pre-skip and now, post-skip, most of the kids in dd's grade are 1-2.5 yrs older than she.

On top of that, in general, she seems to prefer the kids in the older grades. There is also more mixing of the grades in classes in high school. She is in classes with a number of sophomores and some juniors.

For the most part, I'd say that the boys who seem to be noticing dd are significantly older than she. She is, at this point, fine with the idea that she can't date a 16 y/o, for instance (she's 13), but I wonder how this works longer run. Being HG+, she doesn't seem to find peers easily (male or female) and thus tends to be drawn more to older people for friends. I worry that will be the same in the boyfriend department especially since the boys who notice her also seem to be quite a bit older.

Dh and I have quite an age difference ourselves, but I was 25 when we started dating. I see even a few years of age difference to be more problematic in teens. Thoughts on how HG girls who are often in classes and extracurriculars with older boys find boyfriends who are both intellectually and emotionally appealing and not way older?

Hi Cricket,

I can only talk from my own experience, which may or may not be helpful. I started dating a boy 3 years older than me when I was 15. For me it was great, I was emotionally ready for all that entailed, we went out for a little over a year. Between him and my husband, who I met at 18, I dated a couple of other older boys/men, including a 27 year when I was 17, and my husband who was 28 when I met him at 18. At no point did I feel exploited or pressured. These were (and still are - I am still with my husband 15 years later, and still friends with one of those boyfriends), good people who I had a real connection and equal relationship with.

Important factors were, I believe, that I had had thorough sex education, which enabled me to be responsible in my choices. Also, my parents were supportive (if no doubt a little anxious), which meant I didn't have to hide anything. I was pretty street wise from my particular upbringing so perhaps that made a difference - I couldn't say. I just never found boys my age interesting. Still today almost all my closest friends are 10 or more years older than I am.

Based on my own experience, I'd be ok with her dating older boys as she gets a little older (I would probably balk at a situation like my HG best friend's in high school. She was going out with an 18 yo at 12 yo - but as it turned out they were together, very happily, for 7 years!) In reality I'm not sure you can stop it - certainly I would have found ways around any 'ban'.

I have no doubt not all experiences with such big age gaps work out well, but certainly in the case of my friend and I, our relationships were very positive.

In my personal experience, since dd is 7, and this is a question I will have to deal with, I was not allowed to date until 16, which made high school dateless. Although it was rather strict, there was a lot of "group dating" and parties.

There was also good sex education from my mother, who said I had the responsibility of pregnancy. She said sex was great, but I was the one who had the risk.

It is all dependent on your kid, the crowd (I was a cheerleader and partied hard in high school so waiting was great protection from myself). I did have a boyfriend in grade 12, he was no genius but a foot ball player. I think if I had better taste in men (finally as I got older I did) dating wouldn't have been so risky.

Ren

Yes, I'm one of those parents. I'll be honest, it's one of the things I found quite negative about the skip. Dd21 had a bday 3 days before the cutoff and skipped, so she is very similar to your dd. Dd19 had a bday a few months after the cutoff, so she is definitely younger, but not as much (although she'll graduate college in three, so she's continuing the younger trend :)).
For dd19, she didn't really date until the end of HS. She was always very mature, a bit quiet, tall and gorgeous, so I think she intimidated boys. She's now been dating her prom date for two years - he's 5 days younger and a grade behind, and followed her to college. Dd21 was another story. She is PG, math and science oriented (biology degree) but frankly, she loved dating and loved boys (even though she has no patience for stupid ones, at least for the long haul). She has always dated older men, including a 29 year old recently. She's into make-up and fashion and sexy clothing that I do think started with her trying to fit in and look older (not trashy sexy, but still, just a shade too tight, heels too high, for my comfort level). In MS, she was very tiny, and looked very young - and she pushed issues like makeup and heels to combat that. Things like driving didn't bother me, but being asked to the 9th grade dance when she had just turned 13 and her date was 16 - that creeped me out.
I think it's really tough - dd19 still finds boys her age annoying in many ways, but she loves her bf and realizes that he is fun for her - much more social, they both love singing, etc... Her intellectual stimulation comes from her classes, her internship (literary) etc... For dd21, it's been hard. The 29 year old (a surgeon) was brilliant and intellectually stimulating, but in a completely, utterly different life point.
I feel like I'm being really negative and I'm not trying to be, but it IS tough. Being gifted and dating already has some challenges, but being younger and gifted is even more challenging. Dd21 can chew men up and spit them out to a certain extent, and she could in HS as well. I don't think she'll find a good life partner for a few years at least. She'll really need a strong, intelligent guy (strangely enough, looks don't seem to be hugely important to her, even though she's done modeling, but intelligence is a deal breaker). OTOH, Dd19 seems to be fine dating guys who fulfill other needs besides intellect - unlike dd21, she doesn't want to debate her dates, or spar intellectually with them.
I think you may come to the conclusion that your dd may NOT be able to find a boyfriend who is both emotionally and intellectually appealing, and not way older. She might have to compromise in HS and either decide not to date much (as dd19 did) because she just can't find a boy mature enough, or decide to date older guys, or smarter, but more immature boys her own age (as dd21 did). The biggest help I gave my girls, honestly, was just to listen to them when they couldn't find anyone who really fit what they needed and reassure them that they didn't need Mr. Perfect... I truly think that the perfectionism that gifted kids have can play into bad experiences in dating. My PG dd21 is very typical - super intense, perfectionistic, razor-sharp, quick... she's like a freaking force of nature. Sometimes we need to remind her to take it easy on these guys (I'm dead serious). Help your dd think about what she wants - someone to talk to? someone fun to date? someone who shares a certain interest? someone she finds attractive but not necessarily intellectually stimulating? She doesn't have to find everything in one guy - not in HS at least! In the same way that skipping was not an ideal solution, but worked better than the alternative, your dd probably won't find the ideal boy, but that's okay, because she doesn't need to right now.
Good luck...

Back again. I have found that PG girls generally find men in their programs, PhD etc. My childhood good friend is one, or they have a difficult time, especially if they go into business.

When I was in my 20s, I worked for a famous woman on Wall Street. She divorced the first husband and then married a very successful guy when she was in her 40s. On our way to a meeting I told her of my woes with this guy, an IVY league lawyer in a major firm, that seemed to like me. And she told me that her husband would never have come near her when they were in their 20s. She said successful smart women are very threathening to ambitious, smart guys. Because they are not sure of themselves until a certain point.

I dated a lot of investment bankers, top lawyers, traders, some famous and it is interesting when I look back. Many kept in touch over the years and only later did I get marriage proposals.

I am planning the nerd route for DD. Watching her now, I see resistance in the future, but then there is always that convent in Spain for high school...

Thank you all. Just to clarify a few things. I'm not necessarily needing dd to be dating and would be quite good if that didn't happen for a bit. What has mostly brought this to mind is that dd, herself, seems to be developing an interest in having a boyfriend and that she's had a few older guys (16-17) who are taking notice of her.

I majored in public health in grad school and part of what scares me about the age difference is a project I did on teen pregnancy. Major risk factors for teen pregnancy included lack of higher educational or career goals (NO problem at all here b/c dd13 is unusually directed in that regard) and girls dating boys older than themselves. If I recall correctly, something like half of teens who had babies had fathers of the babies who were in their 20s. Granted, I'm not looking at 20 y/os being interested in dd, but by the time she is 15 or 16, these same 16 or 17 y/o boys who are interested now will be 20.

We are pretty open and close and I know that she is pretty comfortable talking with me. I'd just much rather she find a peer group (guys and girls) who are closer in age and intellect so she didn't seem so drawn to older people for friends and boyfriend possibilities. I guess that I care less if her female friends are five years older, though, b/c there is less risk there unless the girls are drinking or something. Dd doesn't seem to be drawn to hanging out with people who are getting into trouble, though.

When I was 14 (and young for grade due to having moved from a state with a later cutoff), I was dating a 17yo. I broke up with him when I realized that he was a lot more serious about it than I was.

One of my college roommates was a girl who had been dating her 30-yo boyfriend since she was 13, and all of the rest of us thought that was creepy and disgusting.

Hi Cricket. DD 14 goes to a 7 - 12 school. She is three years accelerated in math. She takes classes with anyone from 7 - 12 grade, and one college course. She intermingles with older students. Her closest friend at school is a girl who is a grade above her and also accelerated two years. She has been dating mostly kids around her age. I think that her older girlfriends are more a problem in regards to the dating as they are talking about the more advanced sexual relationships than her same age peers. She is not asked out as often as her same age peers. She is tall, gorgeous (not only a mother's bias) looks about 17 and smart. I think she is to intimidating for boys. This is also disconcerting to her. She has a pretty good head on her shoulders and basically thinks that kids around her age can not fall in love yet and the dating thing is just a hoax. We are pretty open with each other and discuss a lot about sex etc. I worry about teen pregnancy. Interesting discussion... I have always dated older. I like to intellectually spar...My guess is so will DD.....

A general question is to what extent parents should try to influence and regulate the personal lives of their grown-up children.

This thread reminds me of an article

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/living-together-pays-off-more-for-the-college-educated/
July 6, 2011, 3:21 PM
Living Together Pays Off More for the College-Educated
By ANN CARRNS .

It may be that high-IQ people (college grads have higher IQs than average) are more able than others to make good decisions in their personal lives without much outside advice (including that offered by organized religion). For most of U.S. history, and currently in much of the world, cohabiting outside of marriage is "breaking the rules". When rules are relaxed and people are left to their inclinations, that may be good for the bright and bad for the less-bright.

In our household my wife will likely lay down the rules for our kids, since she is more conservative. That leaves me free to philosophize, but not in front of the children .

Ahh, well...this thread isn't about adults. The OP was referring to a thirteen-year-old girl. I'm not sure that this is the right thread for a general discussion about parents and their adult children.

Mom2Four's dd21 seems to describe me pretty well in my younger years.

I was accelerated and wound up dating a few older boys. One was a 19-year-old classmate when I turned 15. Although I ended up being exposed to some more adult parties, he was a gentleman and understood that a 15-year-old isn't ready for some of the same college activities as a 19-year-old. Though we were at different points in our lives, he was a good fit for intellectual debating and playing sports.

Since then, I have dated guys around my own age, as well as a few older (mostly as a teenager). It evened out for me once I reached grad school/my career, where I can meet men my age who can carry on a good converstation about many different topics.

By "grown-up" I meant post-puberty and having the mental age of an adult. Gifted children can reach the latter milestone in their early teens.

That becomes a different question, then. Do we let our young teen kids make all decisions for themselves b/c they are mentally older than their age? I guess that is a parenting question and I'd lean toward saying "no" for our family. I have no intent of banning my dd from things and have let her make choices for some time regarding reading books that seem inappropriate for her age, for instance. In general, she's made good choices. We talk through things and I'm usually fine with the decisions she makes.

However, if the only alternative I can offer her to considering older guys is "don't date at all b/c boys your age are too immature," I don't suspect that is likely to be a good alternative. When she chose not to read the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo when we talked about it having some weird sexual stuff and bondage, the alternative wasn't "read nothing."

I guess that I'm trying to get from others if their HG+ girls were able to happily date boys their own age and where they found them or if they ran into fewer of the problems than typical in dating older boys by virtue of their greater maturity. Mature or not, I do know that human hormones play a part in our making good decisions when we are young, though.

Well this is certainly one of those threads that brings back memories of experiences that made my life measurably worse.

Great -- lol! May I ask how so?

Guess I'm going to disagree with you there. I don't think that being post-pubescent makes you an adult. Teenagers I've known (including pretty much every HG+ one I've ever met, and including people with IQs north of 160) have been a long way from being grownups.

Being able to read classic books or talk about politics doesn't make you a grownup. Being a grownup comes from having a body of life experiences that you've learned from, and simple arithmetic keeps this out of reach for 14-17-year-olds who live at home, haven't had babies, haven't had to pay bills every month, buy supplies for themselves, find housing, or get something done repeatedly without adult supervision, etc. etc. etc. Plus, there is also the issue of brain development, which continues into the 20s. Most 18 year-olds aren't really adults in the true sense of the word, though they're old enough to start feeling their way by that point.

If I recall correctly, I was only able to date people in whom I had no actual interest in dating while being unable to approach the people who I wanted to date.

I don't recommend that approach.

It doesn't work.

And you end up with people yelling at you and crying.

Plus, there was that time my parents tried to fix me up with someone who thought she was dating me, but I didn't think I was dating her.

And other stories, equally as stupid, and some much worse.

In a four-year residential college, many of the students living in dorms, especially those fully subsidized by their parents, are not adults by several of the criteria you mentioned, yet colleges make little effort to regulate their behavior, and it is impossible for parents to do so. I don't think there should be a supervision "cliff" at the time students enter college. What the slope should look like is hard to say.

And failure to appropriately navigate this cliff causes what I like to describe as Catastrophic Permanent Life Failure.

I still have nightmares about college on a regular basis.

I agree with Bostonian's point here.

Maybe, but you've ducked/segued away from your original point claiming that many gifted post-pubescent teenagers are basically grownups, which I disagreed with.

I'm not sure I follow your messages; the first one in this thread claimed that post-pubescent children (as young as 15 in girls and 16 in boys) are grownups and a question to ask is, "How much should their parents try to regulate their personal lives?"

I disagreed with that idea.

Then you said that there shouldn't be a supervision cliff when students enter college. To me, this implies that you think that these students need more supervision...yet you argued that many post-adolescents (especially if they're smart) are grownups and wondered if or how much their parents should be regulating their personal lives, implying...less supervision.



You often say that college attracts people with higher IQs. Here, you also said that having a high IQ can lead to a mental age of an adult at an earlier age. So, by that reasoning, many college students would meet your definition of being grownups by the time they were, say 17 or 18, (allowing for extra time for non-HG+ but smart students).

So there seems to be a contradiction in your messages that I don't follow.

For full clarity, I said that by 18 most people are ready to start feeling their way. If someone is footing the bill, college is, in many ways, a relatively gentle step into adulthood.* Someone is paying your way, there are real grownups around who have a certain amount of authority over you, and if you live in a dorm and have a meal plan, you avoid a lot of the messy details of adult life while you have a measure of independence, figure out how to get stuff done without an adult hovering over you, and figure out how to live and work with people who are very different from you.


*Compare to people who are expected to get a job and move out soon after they graduate from high school.

FWIW, based on my experienece and that of my close friends,I don't think grade-skipping is really the issue with HG/PG girls wanting to date older guys. I think wanting to date people who can get your jokes and who have the same interests and level of emotional maturity is the issue. If she has the opportunity to hang out with guys her own age who meet those criteria, then she'll probably be interested in dating them. Gifted summer programs like THINK or TIP might help get those relationships established.

I'm in the camp that agrees it makes sense to at least "try" to influence the personal lives/dating lives of our 13 year olds!

I think the advice above makes sense....the camp programs are a good idea to introduce your daughter to like-minded, similar-aged peers. But I have to say that for myself, as a teenage HG girl, I did not have crushes on boys based on whether they got my jokes and had the same interests and emotional maturity....hee hee hee.....it was really based on who I thought was cute, and often, athletic. Exuding confidence was key, also. The like-mindedness really didn't come into play until I was past 18. So I may be a case study of an HG not being perfectly mature at a young age :-)

I agree that there is an additional reason to pay attention if your daughter is young for her grade, because I think most parents would *prefer* their young teenage daughter not date significantly older boys (although the 2nd poster points out that of course it can work out just fine!). Obviously, your daughter will be exposed to more older boys than she would if she hadn't been skipped.

My kids are a tiny bit younger than yours, but I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that they date appropriately, whatever that means!!! Good luck....

Based on my very limited experience (I can remember my own high school days, my sister's and my best friends - each of us was grade-accelerated and in classes with kids 2-3 years older than us... plus we had the opportunity to meet quite a few college aged kids who were friends and sibs of friends)... two things pop out to me:

1) Who we were interested in (of the opposite sex) had very little to do with what was inside their brains and everything to do with how cute or attractive or what sport they played or did they have a great sense of humor or were they fun to just hang around with. Some of the judging based on looks etc sounds horribly superficial and shallow, but the facts on the table are - when we were young teens, we were in fact a bit shallow! So were most of the girls I knew when it came to dating, no matter how high or not-so-high their IQs were. As someone mentioned above, that changed in college for most of us and that's when we started seeking out people to date who had similar intellectual interests.

2) A lot of what happens with dating in high school is going to be related to a combination of personality. I was never particularly interested in dating in high school, and I didn't have very many boys ask me out. I did date one boy briefly who was 2 years older and driving when I was still a year away from getting a learner's permit. I felt weird about the car thing, even though my sister thought it was beyond cool. Being the shallow teen that I was, I broke up with him because he could drive and I felt more comfy around all my friends who couldn't drive and didn't have cars.... not sure I was using my brains and high intellect very clearly there lol! My sister, otoh, had a very serious relationship with the first boy she dated, who happened to be two years older than she was. They dated all through her high school, even though he'd long sense graduated and gone on to college. Her dating life, even though it was with an older boy, was much less wild than most of my friends who were dating same-age boys, and she's still friends with her now "older man" all these many years later. My best friend was always all about dating older boys - as many as she could, and as wild as they came. By the time she was a junior in high school she refused to go out with any boy who was still in high school. She wasn't looking for intellect, she was looking for sex. I honestly think, from knowing her well, that she would have had the same type of dating life even if the only boys she'd had to choose from were the same age as she was and she'd never been accelerated in school - it was just who she was. She was still very much the same in college


3) Older boys aren't the only boys I can see myself worrying about with my girls - I knew a few friends who were sexually active as early as 6th grade when I was growing up, we had girls get pregnant in our middle school, and one of my best friends was constantly pressured to have sex with her then boyfriend, who was the same age as us (11-12). We also can set a lot of rules about what to do / not do as parents, but ultimately it's our success in passing on our values that will be most important in helping our kids get through the crazy early years of dating.

4) I wouldn't worry too much about setting some limits if you want to and are worried that they may seem out of place for a child in the grade your child is in - for example, only go out if a parent is driving (or whatever). I can see that's something a parent *might* worry would set their child apart from same-grade peers, but from what I remember of high school, there was a huge spectrum of parental limits across grade level - I had friends who weren't allowed to date until they were seniors and other friends who had limits on who they could ride with etc. Curfews were all over the place. So what I'm trying to say is - giving your child a limit isn't going to automatically blare out as a red flag that "I'm young", kwim?

Sorry - none of that is probably any help! Just more food for thought

polarbear

This is a very helpful thread.

I sense that some of these concerns are a little less hypothetical for those of us who are already living this out, though...

My DD's first "friend" who was more than a friend... was then fourteen, and she was not yet 12. They were classmates, and it was very definitely a mutual crush.

The one thing that my DH and I are trying to do with this particular area of development is to be non-reactive about it in a general sense.

It's hard when you have a 13yo who has classmates and acquaintances express romantic interest in her... and those people are 15-18yo. KWIM?

There is just no way to make that kind of thing feel 'comfortable' to me as a parent.

We've also found that most of DD's age-mates are incredibly intimidated that she is a high school student while they are in 6th or 7th grade.

The exceptions tend to be kids who are quirky outsiders themselves. DD gets along exceptionally well with kids on the spectrum because they, too, tend to live their lives as outsiders relative to cultural social constructs.

Her current boyfriend is an age-mate with mild Aspie tendencies. They met because he is the younger sibling of a peer/friend (with pretty severe ASD) that DD met via summer workshops and an extracurricular activity that they are all involved in. I strongly suspect that the only reason that this isn't incredibly awkward and weird is that the two siblings involved are Aspies. I know that my friends at this age all found it highly creepy if their older/younger brothers were interested in me (happened at least a few times-- once with a brother 3years older than my BFF and I, and once with the younger brother of a good friend who was four years older than myself).

I don't know how long it will last; it seems to be her first "real" relationship of this sort. We're trying to figure out whether or not 13 is "too young" to go to the movies alone, etc. What we are finding is that we don't necessarily have the same opinion on individual items, which is kind of a first for us as parents! For 15 years, we've sort of assumed that we're always on the same page as parents-- to the point that we almost don't need to even discuss things. Now this. LOL.

It's complicated because both kids have had not-terribly-age-appropriate expectations placed upon them since very early childhood (DD because of her disability, and the boyfriend because of his sister's). So neither one of them is "typical" for 13, and this may have been what drew them together in the first place. He knows that DD is very definitely smarter(?) than him, but isn't threatened by it (somewhat to my amazement).

I think that polarbear's comments about it being fairly shallow at this point are absolutely correct. Yes, there are some shared interests, but really, it's the fact that it's mutual and they are both drawn to what they see as "cute" in the opposite sex.


We're pleased that this first boyfriend is NOT 16-17, to be honest. DD is very definitely not prepared for the physical side of that kind of relationship, and some of those 15-17yo classmates and peers are starting to notice her.

She's a girl who is "one of the guys," only now those guys are starting to take notice of the fact that she's a smart, wise-cracking, funny, blonde...
pretty...

girl. (Cue 'Heyyyyyyyyy... how did SHE get in here?' )

Luckily, I was the same kind of girl. Well. I don't think that I necessarily want DD to follow the same kind of path that I followed; I don't think that I ever went out with anyone my own age. My first spouse was someone that I met when I was fifteen. He was 22. But what I mean by that is that I am mentally better prepared to 'guide' my DD through what can be some very rocky waters.

I hope, anyway.

You sound like my cousin who married her high school band teacher.

Things sure were different back in the late 1990s then they are today, that's for sure.

Interesting topic.

We're not there yet (DD is only 9) but I've had a taste of it: I felt forced to tell her about the facts of life before I was ready (she was fine with it, lol). This was because a) her end of year birthday combined with b) her going into the lower grade of a split last year meant that most of the kids she was surround by were 1-2 years older.

I, meanwhile, didn't start dating until after high school. I agree with a previous poster in that it can depend on the child. I'm an anxiety-ridden introvert and as such was socially isolated. I've tried to provide a different experience for my kids - being proactive about socializing them with like minded peers - so we'll see how that turns out.

Yeesh. I'm so not ready for "dating age" children, lol

Heeeee.... well, this was a lot longer ago than THAT. I was first married back in the late 80's.

In all fairness to the ex, the age difference wasn't the problem-- it ultimately didn't work out because he had no intention of ever growing up, which I sort of wish I'd realized before we got married. Plenty of disingenuous/naive behavior there to go around, though. His parents LOVED me-- because even at 18, I was a lot more responsible and mature than he was. KWIM? I think that my grandmother summed it up nicely when she pointed out why Spouse 2.0 was better for me than the beta version... "I always thought that {name} was such a nice boy. But he wasn't for you." (Bearing in mind that the person she was referring to had been 26 years old when we married).


There was never an inappropriate power/status differential between the two of us, though. He was hardly a pedophile. He actually thought that I was more like 18-19 when we met. In any event, my current spouse is also five years my senior. However, this is not a very big gap when you're talking about people in their mid 20's and beyond. BIG difference when the person(s) in question is/are under 16.

I do think that any kind of power/status differential between relationship participants is more concerning than age difference, per se. That power differential or any whiff of manipulative behavior is what raises red flags, IMO.

It's just that in teens, the two things tend to be yoked together. An older partner can drive, may be able to do other things restricted to those over 16, 18, or 21 years of age... etc. Power/status is greater.

I've obviously given this a lot of thought over the past year. We've known that it was coming eventually.

When I got married at 26, I think I had the emotional age of about 15.

Now that I'm 38, I think I'm up to at least an emotional age of 22 or 23.

My cousin seems happy. I'm not sure how much older he is, but they have stayed married and have kids. I would have loved to have attended that wedding, but it was too far away at the time.

I'm just trying to keep my gut in the driver's seat and gently steer where DD seems to want guidance (or where her dad and I think that she HAS to have some).

So far, she's exhibited really very good judgment. She sees no reason to change who SHE is to suit others or to be more attractive to the opposite sex. She's been putting safety and her responsibilities first. She's not dumbing down or anything. We've talked about the risks of ignoring one's platonic relationships, too, in the initial intensity of a relationship with someone-- particularly someone 'needy.'

I'm laughing at the enthusiastic efforts by one of her female friends to give her a 'makeover' recently in light of her new love interest. DD placidly allowed the friend (who is 15) to dress her, do her hair, etc. But then she promptly undid all of it once the friend left, and just shrugged, explaining "I think I'll probably come across better overall if I'm not tugging at uncomfortable clothing like I have some kind of bad rash in embarrassing locations." LOL.

I am a little concerned that DD doesn't seem to feel "worthy" of her intellectual peers, though. She only knows maybe one or two other PG kids, and while both are male, neither is her cup of tea. Ergo, most of the intellectual peers that she knows are classmates who are MG-HG and two to four years older than she is.

I think that her reluctance to engage with (even interested) classmates/peers may be about risk-averseness, but I'm not sure. It's also possible that her emotional maturity isn't at a point where she feels that they are her "peers" in this particular realm, and if so, she's probably right about that.

She certainly feels safe with the, er... "misfit" kids her own age, though-- to a degree that makes her dad and I a little bit worried for her. Is she doing it because she fears/knows that her chronological peers will reject her based on her intellect? Or that her intellecutal peers will reject her/not take her seriously because of her age? I think that may be it. She very definitely has voiced some things in the past year or so about feeling like a "freak" and not feeling like she truly belongs anywhwere (not with older kids, not with age-mates). Her friends are mostly starting to drive, and she's years away from even being eligible for a learner's permit.

Define "mental age". My gifted 14yos are certainly cognitively on the same level as adults I know. But, in the ways of many, many gifted kids, they are the poster children for asynchronous development. Neither is socially ready for adult relationships; it is my responsibility as their mother to keep them safe from making spectacularly bad choices. The ramifications of some of those choices have been bad enough for their cousin, who never had plans to do much with her life anyway; for an ambitious and highly capable kid they could be disastrous.

We've solved the problem for the time being by telling both our son and daughter that pairing off for dates is off-limits at this age. They hang out with groups of friends, and have some individual friends of both sexes, but dating isn't permitted at this point. They've been brought up with the expectation that they're not allowed to date until they're sixteen, so neither has pushed the issue. Given that my dd still thinks boys are mostly icky, she's not really interested anyway; my son figures it's too expensive and will get in the way of school and his music. Did I mention that we're big ol' geeks anyway?

My teen mother cousin apparently outsourced her child-rearing duties to her parents.

So that's one solution to the problem. Things seem fine for her, as far as I know. I guess her parents already raised four girls, so raising an extra one didn't seem to be a problem.

My current thinking is that law school, with it's associated six figure debt and poor job prospects is actually a poorer life choice than teen pregnancy.

Instead of focusing on whether (or whom) she should date, what about making sure she is prepared with birth control and information about sex? If she is going to be sexually active, she may get pregnant with a 13 yr old boy.

It's actually pretty difficult for parents to control whom their kids hang out with. Restrictions on teens often lead to sneaking around. I think addressing the main issue of avoiding pregnancy and making safe choices around sex has a higher probability of being successful and maintaining communication with teens.

Yes. We've never been of a mindset that thinks that some things "can't" happen because DD is so young.

That very definitely is a bonus of having a 13yo who has already seen high school biology and health topics via school, too.

It also comes under the heading of advice/guidance that we feel she MUST have whether it is particularly welcome or not.

We've also made it clear that, just as in other realms, lying/sneaking/obfuscation is punishable in ways that other actions aren't. It's always better to tell us the truth sooner.

Thus far, DD seems to prefer me to her dad in this realm; I'm less judgmental and a better listener, I think. I'm also not trying to "control" her behavior so much as influence it with rationality. I know from experience that nothing else works with my DD.

He can't calmly listen while his instincts are screeching at him that this is his little girl and he needs to keep the world at bay.

An adolescent can read novels about the themes of love and marriage and draw some lessons. Elizabeth Kantor, the author of a recent book "The Jane Austen Guide to Happily Ever After", discusses it at

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/313858/it-s-not-war-sexes-interview
It’s Not a War of the Sexes:
The insights of Jane Austen should not be lost.
National Review
August 14, 2012