We are in an affluent suburb (we bought the cheapest house in the district ) specifically for these schools, which are supposed to be "the best." I am sort of coming to realize though that they have this attitude of "we are SO great we do not have to bend over backward for bright kids -- they are a dime a dozen around here." IF you are lucky enough they decide your child is worthy of testing you need a 140+ on the WISC-IV, and even then you are pulled out only 45 minutes per day, maybe 3-4 days per week.

On the other hand, we've found a public school on the other side of the state line which is a low-income area (for example, in our district 6% of the kids qualify for free on subsidized lunches, in this district 60% of the kids do). But, it is a small district so it has created a consortium with 3 other small, low-income districts to create a gifted immersion classroom. They go crazy working with these kids, hiring specialists whenever necessary -- teaching calculus if warranted, etc. It is only for PG kids and you need 150+ on the Stanford Binet.

My question is: which is better, assuming you qualify for both.

(And as an aside, would a child score the same on the two tests within a reasonable time frame?)

Thanks!

Pursue! This sounds better for the kid who qualifies for it. The other sounds better for the kid who is more in the 130-135 range. Ideal for any kid is the be 'in the middle of the pack' (If placed with older children then I'd aim for the top 20% because being younger does create challenges of it's own.) so that they can develop good work ethic.

But - go and observe both schools. The only way to have even a small hint if something will be good for your child is to spend some seat time observing the teachers interacting with their students. Students interacting with each other, and with the learning materials. If example, if the immersion class is using materials that are aimed for a lower grade level than the current school, then it's a problem. It's great to have peers, but what's needed is peers plus academic challenge.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity. I wasn't specific enough (kind of on purpose -- to de-personalize it). We are currently at the first school. The problem is the 130-135 kid does NOT qualify for gifted at the current school. You still need 140+ for their gifted program. Incidentally, DD6 is already the youngest in her first grade class with a late July birthday. And yes, that creates its own problems, without even a grade skip, etc.

I would like to observe the other school, but before I fall in love I'd like to know if DD6 would test in (150+) and that's why I am wondering if the WISC score and Stanford-Binet score usually come in around the same? And it would require a move -- you HAVE TO live in the district -- no exceptions. And a move is a BIG deal for us -- so I am just trying to get a general feel for IF it is a better option, how much better!?

Thanks so much for your insight -- always helpful!!

I don't know anything about the tests, but I just want to say, I think it is AWESOME that you can even consider a move like that to serve your child's best interests! (((HUGS)))

I was looking into a school that required a 145 on the sb-v. my DS scored 139 on the wppsi, but he had a really high verbal score, so I thought there could be a chance. I decided that I needed the score before I proceeded, and DS scored a 140 on the SB -V. . So my advice on that front is to see how your dd scores on the SB. So my kid scored the same, but I know that's bit always the case!

Thanks 2gift girls! I am not sure we'd actually do it, b/c it only goes thru 5th grade and then we're looking at another move of private school, but hey, I am absolutely open to doing what's best. We always thought we were doing the right thing by being the best district, and now it seems it is falling flat a bit. Maybe we're just young (1st grade) and getting organized and hopefully as she gets older and things get harder it'll all come together.

Amber -- thanks. Interesting that the scores were the same. I am not sure what we'll do yet. We still haven't even had the WISC -- waiting patiently for the district to "collect enough data" to warrant "early" testing. They consider before 8 as early. Tick tock! Ha, ha!

Hi Artsmartmom,
Well, you already have learned that moving to try to find the best school doesn't always work out. So if you do it again, I'd recommend doing many things to figure out if the school would be a good fit (or move to an area with several different choices in schools for HG kids, in case one doesn't work out). And first, are you sure the school wouldn't accept the testing you already have (I'm guessing from what you've said that your DD has a qualifying score on the WISC?)

Can you see if you can get a list of parents who are willing to talk with you about their kids' experiences at the school? And make sure when you talk to the kids, explain what your DD's personality is like, because I think that makes a big difference in whether a particular HG+ school will work out for particular kids. Eg., there is a great out of the box school in the Twin Cities area that allows kids to work independently at their own pace, alongside other kids at their level without regard to grade level. This works great for a highly self-motivated kid, but at this point probably wouldn't work for my kid, who isn't particularly motivated at this point.

I would ask the school very specific information about what they do for differentiation. PG kids can be at widely different levels in different subjects.

Also, I'd ask what many of the kids do after 5th grade. You never know, maybe there's a movement to add grades to the school. It sounds like a great program, but get ready to do a lot of research before making a move!

good luck.

Just to clarify, we didn't move for this school, it so happens when we moved to the area from out of town 5 years ago when DD6 was 1 we chose this area based on schools.

We have pretty much the same dilemma. We observed the classrooms and talked to the older kids and the teachers and directors. There are definitely some great reputations and great outcomes in all schools.

We can choose between several schools - most of which subject accelerate later in the middle grades but which are pretty rigid in the early grades. One school does things a bit different and will accelerate early and often and the teachers work together to find the best fit. ( Interestingly enough, the latter school has had poor outcomes with kids in 3rd or higher coming in from publics, no matter how well prepared, starting at their current grade level. The kids have to be dropped back a grade to make it.) Going all the way through 12th is attractive, but once your kid gets to 5th, who knows what the path will be then?

At the end of the day, what goes on in the classroom is what matters and how engaged your child is within that class and how appropriate the material is for them.

You have to ask yourself, "What is a school?."

I love that question - what is a school? Sometimes we lose ourselves in thinking the big picture is just a decision about school buildings... love it.

It doesn't answer the question but I loved the story once told of the average district and the fancy one. The neighbors in the average district hear the schools are doing great things for that smart little Bobby. He is sent the bldg with higher grades for some classes, and the lower bldg even shifts gym classes around so he doesn't miss them. The neighbors all rejoice - what a great place to live. The neighbors in the fancy district hear "that Bobby kid's parents" think he is special and are getting more for him. They talk about suing the school.

As an adult I have found more acceptance sometimes in so-called average circles where folks don't mind telling you they didn't understand the words you just used vs the fancy ciricles where you get a look like you are the one who is nuts.

The challenge is always this perception of ratings - of quality bricks and mortar - etc. But who is willing to just say - some kids are wired differently, all children have gifts not all children are gifted. A school that won't see you for who you are can make for a long journey of mini-battles.

But Austin's fundamental question is excellent! One we could stand to ask ourselves throughout our journey raising gt kids.

Something else to consider is the population at the two schools.

At our school, which is located in an affluent neighborhood, and buses kids over from a less affluent neighborhood, most of the GT kids are the children of very involved parents. (Now it's true that not all of the kids staffed as "gifted" are actually all that bright; there are psychologists in the area who are known to fudge test scores). Nevertheless, the kids in the GT classrooms reap the benefit of having parents who spend time volunteering, bring extras in from home, etc.

My DD is in a non-gifted kindergarten this year, and there's practically no parent involvement in the class. The teacher is wonderful, but the class doesn't have the benefits the GT class does in terms of parent support.

It's just something to think about. And I'm not even saying which school would be which, as I don't know the areas. But it makes a big difference at our school.

What are the differences in the crime rates?

This is the other thing. The highly endowed schools seem to have a more hands off group of parents. The less so have much more involved parents.

One other point is that the threadbare school will have much fewer distractions. I think this makes the teachers and kids "hungrier."

As far as the crime rate goes, I am sure we'd have an increase but I am not concerned about finding a safe neighborhood in the other district. I think we'd be fine.

Interestingly, while our current district is very affluent...our particular elementary school is for sure below the district average (which is why we were able to find the cheapest house in the district here). So it may be that our specific school we see more of the "nice balance" of involved parents and then the working parents who just do not have as much time to be involved.

Even more interesting is that this PEGS program is house at the elementary school I went to as a child!! So, I am VERY familiar and comfortable with the school in general, but I would NOT be comfortable with the public middle or high school.

I did speak with a woman who has put 4 children through the program and they have gone onto the very pricey private school in the area. This school, which is quite small, and very well respected, is in the same area. She said thus far they have all been able to skip 6th and go on to 7th at the private school. TO me that speaks volumes about the program for the children to be able to skip a grade at such a great school.

I am sort of "stumped" but obviously have more homework to do on it. Just was wondering if anyone had a gut feeling on it, generally? But is seems to be the unknown for many of us! What to do!?!?!

It depends on whether you want to maximize scholarship money, meaning whether you view high school as a financial investment.

For $$$ maximization, you want to get your kid into the lowest SES school that is still of solid quality and shoot for valedictorian. That should get you a full ride to a nice state school, where you then repeat the process and get a high GPA.

Worked for my sister-in-law.

Although now she's making $0 in her pediatric dentistry residency. The $0 will change in the future, however.

I would favor the school with the more involved parents. Also, I would try to meet both Principals and decide- so much comes from top-down, so if the Principal at one school is better, that is also an important consideration.
Also go with your gut- it's often right, and you obviously know your child best.

This is an objective assessment and does speak well. But not so of the private school. LOL.

You can also consider advocating continuing the program in middle and high school or move.


I cannot agree more.