My dd14 was in tears last night with the frustration of feeling isolated from the other kids in her school. "Sure I have plenty of people I am friendly with, but no one who is my real friend, who I match with." She is an incredibly kind, outgoing person, who refuses to talk about other people. Socially and emotionally, she's like a college kid (in fact she has a few friends who are college kids...)

I can't believe I did this, but I drew her the bell curve. And I explained a little. And I finally ended up saying "you don't feel like you match with anyone, because you probably don't". If I combine the unusualness of your smarts, with the unusualness of your artistic sensitivity, with the unusualness (for middle school) of your interests it is likely that no one matches up with you. And I tried to reassure her that next year things could be different. She's going to a new, bigger school that she/we chose because it "felt right". I explained that she is more likely to find children more like her-- closer fit friends.

How'd I do? What would you have done differently? What do you wish someone had told you in middle school? Are there books you'd recommend to me? to her?

Thanks

HereyNowy,
What does she do over the summer? Having peer in summer programs has been wonderful for my son's sense of belonging in this world.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

She participates in musical theater camps (at least two this summer) and will be auditioning for a show which runs at the end of the summer--lots of rehearsal. Luckily the camps are for high school kids, so she will be one of the younger kids (a much better fit than when she is one of the oldest). She also takes music "enrichment" classes on Saturdays which has helped her find friends like her who are drawn to her same interests; these children are from many towns across our city/region. Too bad they can't sit with her during middle school lunch.

Would something like this be possible for your family?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTY

One thing I would do is help her check her thinking a bit. What would a "real friend" be like? Is she being a perfectionist? Sometimes kids, especially girls, get a very romanticized idea that everyone has a perfect best friend and nothing sort of that counts. As an adults many of us have different friends for different parts of our lives - maybe book club friends, soccer team friends, neighbors, etc. Yes, maybe these are not "best friends" but they are still friends and they still count. So, maybe thinking a little bit about what she can get from friendships she has and can develop even if they aren't perfect. They are still a place to practice being a good friend.

My DD13 has known her position on the curve for about a year now... I think that there are times when the information is pertinent. She also knows about the weaknesses of the test etc. I have found being honest with my kiddo about things has made her trust me and know she can get the right answers from me. She has asked for clarification on information that she is learning from her middle school friends about certain topics that I am sure you can guess what I mean. I am glad she checks up on it because I think a lot of those kids do not have accurate information... I think the openness around her IQ scores has given her understanding for some of the isolation she feels. I think you have done well. Imho erring on the side of honesty is the safer way to play it. As far as books, my daughter tends towards fiction reading. She has been reading Jane Eyre which is really about the isolation of a gifted woman way back when.... and I think she identifies with the characters. There was a vampire series that she read where the main character was gifted and went to college early. HTH

I don't see a lot of the things that make her happy on the list of offered classes. They look very academic-am I missing something? also, I have just signed her up for the June ACT. She has never had any above level testing before.

We are planning on sending her to an arts camp next summer.

My kids are much younger than your DD, but I think you did a wonderful job explaining to her what's going on and helping explain away some of the "what's wrong with me?" feelings she's probably having. I wish my own parents had sat down with me and that bell curve in middle school! I had no clue till I had my own kids and started doing research that our giftedness affects our social lives; it would have been nice to know the cause of some of that angst when I was in the middle of it so many years ago.

If next year's school "feels right" to your family, hopefully some of these feelings of isolation will be alleviated next year; and she is more likely to find one or two "matches" in a bigger school. I feel that if our kids can have at least one or two "real friends" as your DD defines it, on top of all the other people they're just friendly with, they can feel like they belong somewhere.

In the meantime, hopefully understanding how her giftedness affects her social life has provided her some consolation on a deeper level, even if it doesn't change her sadness over her current situation.

When I was handed a number indicating what portion of the population I fit within, I was very upset. A simple calculation told me I would likely never find a person like myself.

I don't know if hearing this was good or bad. It did cause me to decide to stop looking for one person entirely like myself. Instead, I decided to be satisfied by being around a variety of people who had some subset of qualities like myself.

Thinking I belonged in the geek crowd turned out to be a big mistake. Luckily I had grown up initially with no access to this crowd and by the time I found it, I realized a life in this single crowd would not have been very satisfying. Not that I don't have any geek friends, but they are only a portion of the people I have in my life.

I recommend finding a way to expose a person to a wide variety of people. Using simplistic methods to choose the right people is often not a good way to find the right people. By simplistic methods, I mean basing choices on academic scores, interests in common, lifestyle choices, group membership, gender etc.

Random is what I think is probably the best way I can think of to find the right people. Using some discretion is a good idea. I have some relatives who grew up in an area where they found the geek crowd they think they belong in. They constantly talk of not being satisfied and still refuse to step outside the life they have locked themselves in. Sadly, I feel they will never get to know what they are missing.

I stayed away from placing my dd on the curve exactly, and spoke more in generalities (mostly because that's what I've got). How does your daughter feel about it all?

I think about how my jr high/high school years might have been different if I had understood more about myself. I guess I have some baggage.

I'm with you about the middle school "topics". I'm not sure she is coming to me with everything, though. She's never been one to discuss her day much.

Jane Eyre! Good idea. I want to read it too! She actually saw a trailer for its movie the other week when we went to Kings Speech. I bet she'd read it.

(The vampire one sounds familiar...I'll ask her if she's read one like it)

Thank you. There is something tremendously helpful on being able to share and get such supportive and understanding comments. This is not the kind of thing I can't talk to ANYONE else about.

I think you did well, in fact I'm squirrelling away notes. What I wish someone had told me at that most miserable age? That they loved me, and that it really would get better, that I wouldn't always feel like that. For me the best thing about getting to university was that I was suddenly surrounded by people who were passionate about all sorts of different things. Not only were there people just as enthused by my subject and my hobbies as I was, so that I didn't need to feel weird, there were people enthusiastic about all my least favourite school subjects and about things I'd never even heard of. It was as though suddenly I'd come into a new world where people didn't need to wear disguises. I wish someone had been able to convey to me when I was 14 that that feeling existed. Mostly, though, I wish I had felt as though someone accepted me for who I was. It sounds as though you're doing that for your DD, so well done :-)

In our family we downplay the sense of difference that comes through knowledge of IQ scores; DS has a tendency to arrogance in his thinking about other people that I cannot afford to feed.

However, we routinely fill our home with dinner guests who have intellectual interests like DS's-- he knows mathematicians and astronomers and all manner of people who think his interests are great. They're not children, but at least he is well aware of how the light at the end of the tunnel looks.

DeeDee

My kiddo I think has some relief for understanding more. However, she also had an outburst in the car not that long ago about wishing she was not that smart. So far her school friends have been supportive. She told me a story the other day and my heart started to drop because I thought she was being teased but as she clarified I realized she felt she was being complimented. She still feels isolated to a certain degree and does not have that one best friend that really "gets her." I wish she did. She never has. I long to put her in an environment where she might have the opportunity to meet others. I think the isolation is partly due to her relationship with academics rather than just being smart. For example, my mother-in-law passed back in October. When we flew to the funeral, my daughter missed some school. Her Geometry text book is large and completely online. She however wanted to bring it with her because it made her feel secure. She is excited to take the SAT for the second time and enjoyed the first time. I think those attitudes are not always seen as "cool" by kids her age. She will be attending an arts summer camp this year... not sure what that will bring...its suppose to be good. HTH

I think it is fine to share where a kid is on the bell curve. We have shared how far out on the bell curve our DS is. He knows he is different , there is no denying this and why would we want to? To expect kids who have an IQ of 140 to see the world the same way as a kid with an IQ of 100 is not reasonable. Each point up is a steep climb. There is a big difference between 140 and 150 and 150 to 160 etc and so on.

Our son has not found a best friend yet or a close friend even, but we have told our son that it only takes one interest in common to kindle a friendship. They can share an interest in Pokemon or maybe it is simply their humor that they have in common. Mostly I have been reinforcing that people aren't perfect and there are no perfect friends. It is also more fun and interesting to have friends with lots of different interests. When I hear the perfectionism coming out in him regarding people I do take the opportunity to point out to him what he has in common with that person, "you both like karate."
Truthfully, he is sad that he does not have a best friend yet. Each year I am seeing that he is connecting less and less with his age peers. We have him in a large variety of activities to expose him to as many kinds of kids as possible.
My heart does ache over this issue (okay this topic has hit a sore spot- sorry if I got off topic). I guess what I wanted to say is that my kiddo related to feeling isolated too. Much love to you and yours.

The feeling of isolation is the reason I came to the forum. My son feels isolated and quite frankly I do too! I have read other parents commenting that they cannot share with anyone about their kiddo and this is how it is for me too. I am glad this is being talked about, thank you!

I think your DD has a best friend. You! I know how parents are supposed to be parents but I often feel we can be their best friends too. I also understand that having a friend her age will make a world of difference. But I grew up without that person and think I somehow coped well enough to last this long without being screwed up. I wasn't a high achiever. My gifts were in the arts and "reading" people and giving empathy and I couldn't find anyone else who got things about people or the arts like I did so I was a loner most of the time. Met and married another loner. How our kid turned out totally gregarious and un-loner-like I'd never know lol. But he has the problem too. He has no best friends. A few really good friends but we don't see these kids as often as he'd like.

I wish when I was 14 that someone, an adult especially, had held my hand and assured me it's okay to be different. To be gifted in a different way, different from my own siblings, different from all the popular girls in school. That it's okay to be who you are because you have your own strengths to contribute to the world.

So I think you did great herenow. And I wish I'd have the presence of mind to handle things like you did when my son is older. Many, many hugs to you!

D16 never did find friends that were much like her in middle school. I think her first true, deep connection with other kids came when she was invited to join Cogito, a chat/forum run by CTY. Although we live in the midwest, we had her NUMATS talent search scores sent to CTY as well so she would be registered with them if she ever wanted to attend their summer programs. They invited her to join this online group, and it was an absolute godsend for her socially.

In high school she is doing better, there is a new girl in her class who started with them last year; she is very bright and has become a very close friend. D spends less time with her Cogito friends now, but still chats with them sometimes. That virtual community was one of the best things that ever happened to her, I think.

This is one of the reasons why DD10 is so against a full skip. She was lucky enough to find a best friend who is also quite bright and shares many of the same interests.

I worry that DD8 may never find a really close friend. She's a quirky, creative kid who is highly introverted and has a different way of looking at the world.

Herenow, I think what you did was great. As others have said, more than anything at that age I think you need to know you are accepted and loved by the people who care for you and to know that you can trust them to help you find your own way.

For what it's worth, I didn't find my own 'perfect' friend (who of course, is not actually perfect!) until I was in my late twenties. Unfortunately she lives in another state, but that's ok - I know she's there. It took a long while and part of being able to do so was knowing about giftedness and understanding that there wasn't something wrong with me (lol, I didn't have someone sit me down at 14 to explain it all to me).

I also think it's ok for us to be our children's friends to some extent, especially while we're the only ones who 'get' them. I don't mean that there is no discipline or adult authority, just that I think there has to be a level of openess that is perhaps unexpected.

Thank you for this thread. You know over the course of the last month of reading I have reflected on my own life a lot and realised that my previous assumptions about why I was so isolated in school, while quite plausible, were probably not the only issue, or even the primary issue. Because the further I got into "the real world" the easier I found it to find, make and keep friends. So far my eldest has not had any social problems, but this year DD2 is visibly becoming steadily more isolated and it is sad. And yet also comforting to know that even if it is not at school she WILL find people she can bond with in time.

Thank you for this thread. So true, it is isolating. I believe when we the parents accept our children the way they are, intensities, perfectionism, etc then it will be slightly easier for them to accept themselves.

And now with the internet, it is easier for us to find each other.

Added:
I would tell my young self that the dream of having one best friend is an ideal. Continue to try, but in the meantime have a few good friends and have some interest-group friends

Mumofthree, I just thought I would mention - and this may or may not end up being the case for your your dd - that my dd was very isolated at that age. Dh and I would despair watching her interact (or not) with other kids. It wasn't just age appropriate parallel playing it was just not getting them AT ALL. Why didn't they know how to share? Why couldn't they communicate with her? Why did they push in or say mean things?

Well, now 5, dd is very socially competent. She leads play with her 8 yo cousins, has a good friend who is a gifted 7.5 year old, but can happily play with kids all ages from 3 - whatever age with no problem. In her class she is sought out by other kids and is very well liked. Only this weekend I said to DH, "remember when we used to worry about how she was going to go socially".

I don't know what caused the change - though in part - and I guess this ties in with what this thread is about! - I think it has come from our recent conversations about why she might feel different (she knows that she is gifted and we were very careful to explain this in neutral terms that imply it is a natural difference rather than something that makes you better or worse than someone else) and that seems to have given her the freedom to just enjoy herself and others rather than focus on what is wrong with her/them. Obviously this conversation is unlikely to be effective at 2 - and it may or may not be useful if and when you do have it. I guess I just wanted to say that we were really worried about how isolated dd would be and in fact, over time it has been much less of an issue as she has gotten bigger.

Deborah Mersino has written a lovely blog post about these kinds of issues this week (and while written in the context of being an adult, she lists some things she wishes she'd known when she was a kid): http://www.ingeniosus.net/blog

From ingeniosus:

How does knowing about one�s giftedness � and being supported from an early age � impact a person�s life and their movement through Dabrowski�s 5 levels? With so many myths, paradoxes and debate around the �gifted� label, I believe knowing about one�s giftedness at an early age � and being educated on social-emotional issues in particular � can have a significant positive impact on a life. I�m not likely to pursue a Ph.D., so I hope someone runs with this! I see my own daughters growing up with books like,

�101 Success Secrets for Gifted Kids� by Christine Fonseca

and having lively, critical discussions in their peer groups. I know teens are benefitting from Author Lisa Rivero�s

�The Smart Teen�s Guide to Living with Intensity: How to Get More Out of Life and Learning�

and the empowering work of gifted authors and specialists throughout the world. I would love to have someone do empirical research on how gifted learners receiving full-fledged affective support in this new generation will forever be altered, as they view themselves more kindly, know themselves better, and travel through their lives with knowledge about their own hardwiring.

I think the time my dd spends on the computer after school "chatting" with her friends scattered across this city has buoyed her throughout this school year. It doesn't matter as much if you don't have someone to sit with on the bus if you have a few friends to greet you (online) when you get home.

Thanks for your kind words Giftodd. I think I have confused you about her age - by "DD2" I meant that she is my second DD, her age is 4.75 years. I would say that she is quite socially competent, or I would have up until recently.

All of her friends went up to school without her at the beginning of this year, leaving her as one of the eldest in preschool, and not wanting to be in preschool anyway this was a bit of a double whammy. Unsurprisingly she's not really managed to find anyone to bond with. Having always loved company but been equally happy to self entertain, if children don't play nicely or she can't fit in she will just go do her own thing. It seems like she has gotten so into the habit of being alone that she no longer seems to notice that she has options at the times when there are children there she does connect with who would want to play with her. Sometimes our play dates go really well, but other times she will just go straight off to do whatever interests her without thinking to try to engage other children in her interest, or trying to join what they are doing.

I had my dd as a "captured audience" today in the car and I started talking about the kids in our neighborhood going to college and segued right into your post above; I practically quoted you word for word. I too remember the emotional freedom you described so well... I think it helped her a little.

I agree. And I will make the above my mantra.

Usually when I talk with my dd, I try to help her find solutions. I tell her I am here to help her; I'm on her side. (This has worked for us because she is enough of a perfectionist that if I started to criticize her, it would spiral out of control) But the trick here is that I can't really think of a solution for her. I feel like I explained a lot to her but didn't give her any tools to really help the situation.

I guess just knowing why she feels the way she feels is important. And maybe approaching people knowing a little more about herself will result in improvements. I just have some sadness that I don't have any answers.

My apologies mumofthree! I should have remembered that from your other posts.

When I was at the hight of worrying about dd's lack of socialising I happened to read something in a book on gifted kids (which I have somewhere but must be tucked away in a box) which basically said that if they child is ok with it and they otherwise have good social skills, then it's not too much to worry about. It's ok and not uncommon for gifted kids to be happy with their own company. Is your daughter introverted? If so, she might be fine until she makes another connection she thinks is worth the effort. On the other hand the authors also said if the child is unhappy about it then it is worth looking for peers even if they were outside preschool/school (easier said than done I know). Also, I've read over and over again that preschool/early elementary school age is the hardest period socially for gifted kids because their opportunities for meeting other kids is so limited and and controlled and bigger kids don't take them seriously.

That it's ok to enjoy your own company really resonated for me - I am very introverted and could happily entertain myself pretty much endlessly given the chance. I have to force myself to connect face to face with others (which I am perfectly capable of doing and generally enjoy it once I do - I am just most comfortable in my own head). Lol - we've just had a 5 day long weekend here, which is the longest time dd, dh and I have been together at the same time for sometime. By the end of the weekend I was going to bed straight after dd, I was so tired from the constant interpersonal stimulation!

Knowing that it's ok not to want or need to be surrounded by others can be useful too I think if your are introverted (if indeed it is something your dd is ok about). But I think it can be hard to feel like it's ok - we all want our kids to feel likeable and I think we get such strong messages that the only way to feel liked and likeable is by having as many friends as possible, when really that feeling comes from within (which I think comes from feeling loved and accepted by those people who are important in our lives, though I think I may have made that point once or twice already!)

Anyway, I've gone off topic enough!

Giftodd - thank so much for this thoughtful post, I sent you a PM, but it just occurred to me you might not see it. I know I have trouble noticing when there is something new there because the little icon is permanently flashing (maybe I have missed something about how the PM system works?).

This is a bug - if you PM Mark Duwhatsit he can fix it for your account (and IME, it then stays fixed).

Wow thanks! I feel less incompetent now :-).

While I was meditating this morning, I did see a little Moth, crawling around the inside of our big picture window for the whole 20 minutes. And I did wish it would use it's wings to fly away from the glass so it might be able to find it's way outside. I thought: How cliche to see a beautiful winged creature trapped against the flat world of glass and wonder if it even knows that there is a whole 3D world, and aren't we like that too?

I think that there are tools to help one be more accepting of peers where they are, more influential to allow peers to open up and share their real strengths, and more connected to one's internal/spiritual strength. I think that those tools are conscious breathing.

A book I like on this is - http://www.amazon.com/Energize-Your-Heart-Puran-Bair/dp/0979526914

Enjoy,
Grinity