I really would like to hear how other parents deal with lack of effort they observe in their children. I am sure that we are not the only ones with this problem. How do I keep my son challenged? Everything he does comes effortlessly. He can play chess twice a year and comes home from local school chess tournaments with runner-up trophies. He may forget to practice for a test and still gets and �A�, once he got an �A-�. I try to give him more challenging work at home, but still do not see any effort from his part. It is not just academically, the same applies to sports.
I have been the same way and coasted all the way to doctoral program and even now when everyone else in my cohort is close to nervous breakdown and will stay like that until end of this semester, instead of working on my papers, I am typing this post. I know I will be fine.
Why I am concerned? Maybe because I want him to want more, to push himself harder, maybe not to be like me, have bigger dreams. I could make him practice chess daily and take him to rated games to be crushed by kids who actually are serious about chess �to teach him a lesson� But if that is not the route I am willing to go, what other alternatives there are? He is a happy kid, who does everything with ease and no effort. Should I just leave him alone and let him cruise through the life? Why do I feel that I am failing him, that I am not helping him to reach his full potential?

You feel that way because you are accurately observing the situation. Chess isn't the way to go, for the reasons you stated. Your child needs to be in a classroom that is challenging, or, in the beginning, if not actually challenging, then at least engaging, and then slowly turn up the heat - at school- to get to challenging. (I'm assuming you child is at least 5 - 3s and 4s are allowed to be fickle.)

As you pointed out, if you keep you child with agemates, he may not be challenged until graduate school. You have the advantage while he is young of many more possibilities to get challenge in there.

Advocacy it a hard road - I suspect you will find the challenge you need to grow into your gifts along it as a side benefit.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Grinity, thank you for your answer. I am so glad that I have found this board as I do not have many people around me that I can talk to about this.
My DS is 9, he skipped 3rd grade and is in the 4th grade right now. Starting January the teachers have noticed that he talks too much and fidgets too much in the classroom. The work in the classroom is not challenging for him, but he fits well in socially. His teacher this year is really working hard with no additonal resources provided by school), each child works at their own spelling level; they have math challenge group and reading club. He has enjoyed being able to do extra work. But at the same time, reading club has asked him several times to read at slower pace so he would not be ahead of other kids. He always gets 100% on spelling. His teacher mentioned that it is hard to find books at his reading level, so he brings in books from home.
I have talked with him about grade skip for next year and he really does not want to do it. So, I think we will continue to do what we are doing for the next year, study Chinese (Mandarin), extra math, science. This summer I plan to teach him web design and some programming. My hope is that when he enters middle school he will start taking some 7th and 8th grade classes while in the 6th grade. But I am still not sure if that will be the answer.

This is where the security blanket of test scores is really helpful, but if you aren't seeing him sweat, and he is continuing to act up, then no, he doesn't get to pick.

Can he go to the next grade up for Math in school? and for Reading? It sounds like the teacher is really trying, but if he is around that 3 Standard Deviation above the mean, then a single skip without subject accels is just not going to do it.

And I know Iowa Acceleration Scale says not to skip a child who isn't willing - they don't say how many 'ponys' you are allowed to offer to get him to willing. And there really are too few kids at the 3rd SD for them to create an Acceleration Scale that really fits that bunch. I know families who have really put some pressue on the kids and it's worked out fine.

pressure #1: just think of all the homework of x grade that he'll never ever have to do.

pressure #2: Ok, you can stay in your classroom BUT, you have to work at your readiness level and I'll provide your teacher with spelling lists, books, math sheets, because it sure isn't my intention to have a 9 year old child who doesn't know that learning is supposed to be hard work.

Or just plain talk heart to heart about what is the purpose of school, how you do value the social time, but is that really enough? and the famous - what would you do if you were parenting a kid like you? Childhood is a preparation for life, fun is ok, but not as a first goal.

Twist, twist, twist that little arm, Magna - follow your MomGut!
Grinity

Is subject acceleration an option while he remains in elementary or do you have to wait until middle school for him to have the option of taking higher level courses? If he is really averse to further grade skipping, that might be a compromise.

Do you think that his desire not the skip further is based on social factors or something else?

Oh boy... I could have written this myself when DD was eight...

She didn't really 'push back' on a grade skip-- in fact, she's always been more than eager to do them, but at some point, there's just no getting around the fact that the WAY that schools teach ND children is just plain not suited to kids +2SD out from the norm.

We've learned that the hard way. I wish I could tell you that a grade skip would fix it all-- but it probably will NOT, at least not in the long run. Because the underlying mismatch will always be there. There aren't enough kids like this for any 'evidence' or any standard curriculum to truly fit them or their needs. We're all just flying by the seat of our pants here and trying to stay half a step ahead of disaster.

Your thinking about this is just so strikingly similar to what we thought at the time that I wanted to mention that.

My advice to others that find themselves in similar situations (where NONE of the available options seems 'good') is to go with the current BEST FIT, and then worry about things as they come up. DO NOT commit to something two or three years down the road, and do NOT agree to placement decisions that "will fit in ____ years." The truth is that you don't know it they will, because none of us knows for sure what our kids will need in two or three years-- and neither do the professionals who are trying to work with us to hammer out a plan.

Don't be fooled by thinking that middle school (or high school, or {X} grade) will be different... it might be, but it may not be different in a way that makes it an improvement from a HG+ standpoint. What we've learned is that sure, the output demands are significantly increased in MS and HS... and certainly the demands on executive function are greater... but if anything, that makes the fit MUCH MUCH worse. That wasn't the dimension that the challenge needed to be increased, if you see my meaning. In other words, my child's areas of strength are STILL as unchallenged/unfulfilling as they've ever been, but now she's expected to do MORE of the stuff she found pointless all along, and do it faster and with less oversight/support. This taxes her weaknesses (related to asynchronous development) and is hard on her self-esteem in some ways-- but still doesn't allow her to stretch her wings cognitively the way we were all hoping. She's literally had one course in her school career which actually came with some doubt about the possibility of earning an A+... and it is this year (geometry). Unfortunately, we knew we were in a race against time here, and we lost. She feels that the fact the material isn't "easy" (ie-- I saw it once and now I have mastery, or I already knew that) means that she is "dumb" and that she is "failing." So she quit trying.

I'm not saying that I think that a grade skip is a bad idea (my DD is 11 and taking high school courses), but if that is ALL that is on the table, it may not be enough for your child. The lesson here is that unless the grade skip is going to be providing instruction that will be meaningfully different from the current ill-fitting curriculum, it may not be enough for long. At least not in and of itself, I mean. Curriculum intended for ND learners simply doesn't fit PG students very well without a lot of modification.

Perhaps you could ask what else can be done in the way of accommodating your DS' learning differences?

My daughter's desire to remain with agemates is often based on not wanting to look/feel like a freak. Kids with really terrific social skills may be able to 'hide' in plain sight like that. Do you think that your DS' motivations are similar? After all, he knows what a grade skip feels like. I wonder what he anticipates a second one would be like.

Thank you for your responses, it helps to see how others are seeing this. The school will not agree to subject acceleration in elementary school. Last year�s grade skip was done against their advice, and we had to sign that we are doing grade skip against the school's recommendations. I could write a whole book on that ordeal, but I am very proud of my husband who stood by me even if not fully understanding the issue, just trusting that I am doing what is best for our child and who now has learned to advocate for our child.
The social factor is the only factor why Ds does not want to do further grade skip. He does not want to be the youngest or the smallest. Right now although he is the youngest, he is still average height among 4th graders. But if we do further skip, he is right, he will be the shortest boy not only in his class, but most likely in the whole school. He loves playing football with other boys, and he realizes that he will be at huge disadvantage there. Although he has not been bullied, �The diary of the wimpy kid� books and movies really have made the fitting in issue a bigger problem.
We have talked about the grade skip and what studying and learning should look like, and we come back to the same issue � his need to fit in socially. It is not that we all do not have this need. I am convinced that is the reason why I have spent my life either studying or working in academia, as it is the only place where I feel that I fit in.
We only have done Explore test and are waiting for the report. For me I see this as a tool when talking to school as well as him. He is waiting for the results as he wants to see a proof that he knows more then he �should know�. This is funny, because this is the boy who the other day wanted to know what school I think he should plan to go, he could not decide between Harvard and Stanford.

This hasn't been our personal experience - I think after the 3SD mark this becomes more and more often true, depending on the individual child's strengths and weaknesses and personality.

But this here, I could have written this myself!

I'd place my son just at the 3SD line, with very slow processing speed and ADD. Up through 8th grade with heterogeneous classes, a single skip plus whatever the local Math honors track offered worked very well. At 13, as a 9th grader however the 'product' and 'organization' aspects ramped up steeply as part of the honors track classes. These classes still weren't particularly satisfing intellectually, but the work demands 'oh my!'

Currently my son is at a private school that is much more discussion orriented, more 'big questions of life' orriented, and repeating 9th grade and having a great year. He is one of the best organized and most academically responsible students, particularly amoung the males. He really likes his school and wants to go back again next year. I'm super happy for him, and have learned, at this stage of the game, to just enjoy the present when it's working or even 2/3rd working. I really like that we were able to find local solutions until he was interested in a wider field of options. It is a very different mindset than I started with.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Of coures his social needs are important, but it may well be that he wouldn't mind being the youngest and smallest if he actually did make friends with his classmates, and they could 'get his jokes.' Yes his will lose out physically with older classmates, but it's easier to join an 'agemate' afterschool sport than it is to recreate a whole curriculum at school.

I think that it's fine to wait for the Explore results, or to have one year be fun and the next year provide challenge. But if you are feeling that bad feeling in your gut, then sooner or later you will have to adress the school issue.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I wonder if you've given any thought to club sports (that is, those outside of 'school' and therefore organized by age/ability rather than grade placement)?

That might be a means of reassuring him that he can still have that important personal need met even if another grade skip is in his future.

My DD has 'school' friends, and she has friends via extracurriculars. Those friends range in age from 9 to 17 years old, with the schoolmates skewing older and the extracurricular context friends skewing younger.

Ah, Grinity, I am feeling that bad feeling in my gut. And I was looking for that little push from you and others.
And you are right about friendships, they can be made on different grounds. I think up to this point, sports was the way he could connect with other classmates, so he sees that as only way to make friends. I really should sit down and talk to him about friendship.

HowlerKarma
He is doing club sports. He has done soccer in the past, but this month he decided that he will give that up for fencing as fencing requires more of his time now. So, I hope that he will make friends in fencing as he starts participating in camps and competitions. He also does speedskating in winter.

I'm really appreciating Grinity's comments about the specific nature of what works so well for her child in the school placement that they have currently.

That kind of curriculum would probably be superior for my DD, too. Right now her school curriculum has an unfortunate focus on assessment and output, virtually ignoring shared inquiry as a learning mode. That's a terrible thing for my DD, since it is by far her preferred method of active learning, particularly in the humanities.

Finding out where the mismatches lie is probably important, in other words.

I don't know what options exist for club sports where you are, MagnaSky, but around here, for a young man your son's age, there are a number of options:

soccer, PopWarner football, Little League, ultimate frisbee, martial arts (Karate, Aikido, etc), golf, swimming, and much more.

ETA: I see from your post above that your DS is already doing some of those things. Can you talk to him about his enjoyment of those activities with his peers? Maybe help him to see that those people can be friends as much as the people that he is sitting in math class with every day?

DD is finally going to be old enough for fencing this summer. She was once very chapped that she wasn't old enough-- she really wanted to learn when she was about 8-- but now she isn't quite as interested, which is too bad. I think it would appeal to her.

I am sorry to hear that your DD could not start fencing earlier.We were lucky to find a coach who lets kids practice fencing at early age, but he moves them up only when he sees that they are mentaly ready. Fencing is a mental sport, I do think your DD would enjoy it.

Me too; DS was still 5 when he did fencing for the first time (with a very serious coach, but only at a summer activity camp). He's been doing it weekly since shortly before turning 7, and loves it. We have yet to see him doing it, though. Hope your DD's enthusiasm is still there, even if a little less obvious than it was, HowlerKarma!

This seems entirely logical to me.
My son happens to be super-tall, and even after his skip was one of the taller kids in 6th grade - but he was quite chagrined to see that even though he was taller and heavier, the older boys could beat him at playing 'king of the hill.' I do think it's natural for some boys to enjoy contact sports where size matters, but that is a far cry from saying that school based decisions should be made on that basis. I don't know if you are willing for him to play a sport like football that has an age and size component, but I can imagine your DS really enjoying the chance to rough and tumble with kids his own age/size.

It's great that your son likes fencing and speed skating - good for him! I wish that kid's sports didn't get so exclusive at such a young age as I wish your son could have it all. Including agemates who are at his readiness to learn level while we are at it.

I'm hoping that you school is quite familiar with Explore scores and will really be ready to 'think outside the box' once they see them. Perhaps you can met one more time with his classroom teacher and get her to push the administration from her end to allow the subject accels.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I wish that was true for all our children. And as sad as it seems, I do realize how fortunate and privileged I am to be able to consider different choices for my dc.