DS5 has just been informed about heaven by friends at school and I'm now wishing we had begun talking about religion and religions at home sooner. DH and I are athiests. My main goals for him on this topic, I think, are for him to have a framework for thinking about religion and to be tolerant of people's beliefs.

I have found the book "parenting beyond belief' very interesting and somewhat helpful, but I would appreciate thoughts and other reading material from you thoughtful bunch!

Beak

Hmm. This is a tough one, and the best approach probably varies among people (both adults and children).

Think I will PM you.

Val

Hi, Beak.
My kids (8 & 10) has been asking questions about heaven/hell/souls/reincarnation since they were small (about 3). We are a family full of contrasting opinions on religion (atheist, agnostic, Christian, Buddhist, Wiccan) so I think they were just recognizing and responding to the fabric/undercurrent of their family.

Our goal has always been to provide a framework as well -- and allow them to make their own decisions regarding belief/spirituality as they grow and learn. I ALWAYS turn questions around to my kids when they ask ANYTHING. So...I have used that technique with religion questions as well.

What's heaven? from my son turns into "What do YOU think heaven is?" from me. (followed sometimes by a long conversation, and sometimes by a brief response from him and then on to something else). I will happily tell them I don't have all the answers and can and will share what I believe/don't believe with them, but I also encourage them to make their own decisions and have since they started asking.

Incidentally, my daughter considers herself an atheist, and my son falls solidly into the Christian range. (No one in our IMMEDIATE family is Christian, btw, just grandparents we don't see much).

I think, as long as it fits into your family's framework as it has ours, that allowing them to wonder and come to their own conclusions is a positive decision.

Have fun!

Sarah

I would probe pretty carefully about exactly what the children at school might have said. Who knows what kind of seed of doubt or anxiety may have been planted.

Hi Val,
PM would be great. DH and I have slightly conflicting views on how to approach this set of topics with DS and with friends and colleagues. And I think you are right about different approaches for different people.

EandBMom,
having that variety of opinions within our extended family might help me as well actually, more to draw on in discussion with DS. we do have some varied opinions but they aren't expressed often, and when they are the discussions can be uncomfortable, so I expect that's why.

What did you do with these questions when your kids were in the 3-5 range and had less underlying information for reference?

The tool of turning the question around is a great one, and we use it, but it seems less helpful when there's so little framework so far. we haven't discussed god or gods, for example. or heaven, hell. or religions or churches. as I type this it's becoming clear that I'm almost actively making an information void for him by avoiding these things.

I found that the author of parenting beyond belief has a website with a forum, and some suggestions there for rolling out this information to a child included starting with Greek and Roman mythology and the "people used to believe in..." perspective.

Do either of you have any reading material suggestions along those lines, age appropriate for 5-7 maybe? We do a lot of reading of fiction and nonfiction.

Thanks!
Beak

herenow,
We did a bit of that. It is space week at school and I think that may have been the only link. he was told by friend that heaven was up in space (it's space week at school), and probably disagreed with friend strongly. I think his biggest concern was the the "space" he knows and loves might have some other item in it that he'd never heard of before!

I can't come up with any books we may have read off the top of my head, but if I think of any, I will PM you.

When my kids were 3-5 I just made it super simple and tried to give them open ended options so they could create their own frame of reference. For example a conversation might have gone like this:

A comment from E: "I don't think what Grandma said about Angels is true."

Me: Why? Because you have never thought about it, or because it doesn't 'feel right' to you, or because you know something different?

Or, in my son's case: "I really think Grandma is right about Angels!"
Me: Why? Because you feel the same way? Because you have seen/heard/read about what grandma is talking about?

I also asked them to rephrase what they had heard someone say in their own words a lot of the time. In their little brains, I think it helped them sort it out.

Hope this helps! We have always been super open about it all...and my extended family knew we were so it helped that I didn't have to wait until we left the company of others to have the 'real' conversation if my kids were thinking about things out load with extended family around.

On a side note (and in agreement with what herenow said) my daughter at 3.5 was told by a preschool classmate and her mother about a reading in the bible where the firstborn children are all killed and their blood left on the doors (sorry if I am butchering the actual story!) On top of the fact that this family had no right to tell my daughter anything without my permission, E thought she was in imminent danger and kept asking me if I would love her after she died. She literally thought she was going to be killed by someone for over a week...and was filled with anxiety and despair. I FINALLY figured out what was going on and we straightened it out...but making certain what was said is definitely important!

I sent you a longer PM but in case others are reading:

The companion book to Parenting Beyond Belief is called Raising Freethinkers. It's a great book with questions that kids ask, answers for humanist, Unitarian, atheist and agnostic families and tons of activities to do with kids that develop the moral roots in a secular way.

You can also look into D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths, the DK Book of World Religions, lots of picture books on evolution, etc.

My son came home talking about heaven and hell at age 6. My husband and I are atheists also. I purchased the books Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers, but they were not as helpful as I thought they would be. They sort of try to explain atheism to non-atheists instead of what I thought they would do: help me teach my son how to politely disagree with the kids talking about heaven and hell.

Per my son's request, we attended a Unitarian Universalist congregation for about a year. Through them, he learned religious tolerance and that there are lots of different faiths, including non-theism. I think it was good for him, but we are so out of the organized religion loop that we couldn't continue for longer than a year. I'm guessing that when he gets a little older, we will hear more about it.

Heaven is a newly discovered moon of Saturn.

good point!
i suppose it is possible that a new astronomical item named Heaven is the source of this conversation my son reported, but it seems the less likely possibility!

i'd like to clarify that it's not the finding of new objects in space that i find unlikely...

My parents did a pretty good job at religion, I think. They were different from eachother which was also good. My dad more intolerant but also very clearly saying "It doesn't really matter what I believe, you have to make up your own mind". My mom more tolerant and more aware of the social aspects of religions, herself personally interested in history and different belief systems.

I think my mom started off in preschool years by telling me some Greek myths (in addition to some long and boring stories about various greek battles, she was just interested in Greek stuff). And in everyday stories like Aladdin she might make a reference to the genie being god-like. So I think I heard early on the idea of a god being a powerful being that might be able to do magic type things.

Later when I was around 8 or 10 she and I read parts of the bible together, for fun, and looked up all the places and really talked about what Christians believed versus Jewish people, etc. She had quite a bit of knowledge about various (western) religions so if I'd ask "what's hell?" she'd respond pretty specifically "well Catholics believe X.... and Mormons believe Y".

If there's any advice in that it would be to get a brief text that discusses religious beliefs in some detail in order to be clear on it yourself and able to answer questions fairly specifically.

Polly

This is very topical for us - my dd5 went to a new friend's house for the first time the other week and, without asking me, they took her to Sunday school! I am an atheist and my husband is agnostic. While I am happy for her to be exposed to any and all religions, I was a bit shocked at the presumptuousness. DD kept on making up stories about apples and snakes for the rest of the week!

No suggestions, but happy the thread was started as I'm interested in other's suggestions. So thanks!

I am what one would consider Agnostic. DH was raised Southern Black Baptist (there is a difference between Bapstists, Southern Baptists & Baptists in the African American churches in the south). My mother grew up Catholic. My father Protestant. My brother and I were raised without religion. My parents are now Presbyterian and take DC to church with them. Confused yet?

Anyway, we have explaining our own beliefs and those of others fairly easy, as I am white and DH is black. I know that sounds crazy, but they know that families are made up of all different people - races, genders, ages and parental/guardian roles. So we treat religion the same way. They know, for the most part, what the core beliefs are for the major religions. We have included Atheism (my brother is an Atheist) as well. It also seems to help them in their own decisions. Granted, we have them going to a Christian church, but they know they are free to believe, even as young as they are, in what they feel in their hearts is right.

I also think it depends on your perspective. I am very "Science" focused. My way of discussing "heaven" and "hell" is similar to my discussion of "ghosts" and "magic". Let's investigate the idea- gather as much information about it as possible. Then, can we test it? Why or why not? If so, how do we test it? Etc.

We do read about different religions and people's beliefs. We learn about the significance of holidays for the religious and secular.

I am, unfortunately, having some trouble getting DD7 to be sensitive to people's religious beliefs. But, I guess kids aren't really sensitive to hers (lack thereof) either.

We have many discussions in our house about religion. DH is atheist and I am Catholic, we are raising our kids Catholic. But, they know daddy is not Catholic and that he believes different things than I do and that we want them to learn about my religion so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not they believe.
We have had to content with a Sunday school teacher telling DD (then 5) that people who don't believe in God are bad! She apparently had an argument with the woman about her daddy and friends who are not Catholic not being bad people.
We've also had discussions about how the big bang theory fits in with the idea of God creating the universe and everything in it. Someone had tried to tell her that she had to chose which one she believed to be true, and she wasn't/isn't willing to make that choice (not that I think she needs to either, but that is a different topic). This all led to the question "If God created everything, what created Him?"
So, I guess my point is, that it is really dependent on how firmly you believe you want your children to believe the same thing you do. We are very open with DDs and answer their questions very differently, but the main thing is that they are open to differences and accepting of them.

You might also want to check out the book Really, Really Big Questions, a kids' book on critical thinking written from the secular humanist perspective:
http://www.amazon.com/Really-Big-Questions-Stephen-Law/dp/0753463091

I'd also recommend going online to find out whether there is a Parenting Beyond Belief or similar group in your area. We've attended events with our local chapter on a few occasions just to let DS6 know that he's not the only kid who doesn't go to Sunday school or believe in the devil. Kids at school told him when he was only 5 that he would go to hell if he didn't believe in god, so you can't start early enough.

We've been reading myths from all over the world to DS6 since he was very young. As a result, he's already capable of thinking critically about the Bible. For example, when we read him the Noah's ark story, he immediately drew connections between that and earlier, similar flood myths from that same part of the world. I would suggest going to the myth and religion section of the library and loading up. Norse myths are especially popular in our house.

"Really, Really Big Questions" looks interesting. I'll check that out.

The experiences you've all written about have given me some great thoughts on how to proceed. Thanks for sharing them.