Out of respect of the topic on CBT, I thought I would respond in a new topic.

I think the amount of activities and types of activities depends on the child. Just like I take my 11 month old puppy for a 4 mile jog at 4 am, then she goes to dog beach for at least 3 hours, 3 different times through the day and we just throw the toy into the water, she fetches, throw the toy in the water, because this dog just needs so much exercise.

DD is not a play by herself kind of kid. Not that she doesn't but it surprises me more, when she does. She loves to interact, and if other kids are not available then she wants me to participate. In Mandarin class, she likes the interaction with her classmates in activities more than the learning of the language but she gets both. She loves her ballet and gymnastics. She is not keen on practicing her piano, which I have posted about, but she loves to able to play so practicing is not an option. And she really wants her science program at the museum. It fills up fast. And if you don't have an activity on a certain day and you try for playdates, you have to find a kid who doesn't have an activity scheduled.

But being in the city also keeps travel time down, and kids across the hall knock on the door when they can do a playdate and likewise, or we go up to another floor where she has a friend. So it isn't inconvenient to have a 45 minute playdate whenever. Was also convenient when she had her first sleepover away and it was right across the hall.

She is healthy, doesn't play a lot on the computer or have the chance to watch TV outside of eating lunch in the summer or her schedule of shows at 6 am while she has breakfast.

She is surrounded by kids with a lot of activities. It doesn't stop pretend play or inventing stories using her silly bands for props. Or hanging on the lifeguard chair eating their pizza lunch with them.

She gets up most of the time on her own, so it seems she gets enough sleep. She has time to play Mastermind or Pictionary or Uno. And she has a room any little girl would want, with princess/barbie dolls, a 3 story dollhouse, play kitchen, loftbed with club underneath, and on and on. And she uses it.

So what is downtime for her? She has the option and sometimes she just wants to color or make a puppet. But she is like her puppy, and goes and goes and goes.

Ren

I wouldn't worry about it, if you are. As long as she's happy, I wouldn't worry about stunting her growth in some way. She enjoys the things you schedule for her, so she might have signed herself up for those activities if given the option.

In addition, I tend to think that the extent to which a kid likes/needs to get out of the house depends on the level of extroversion. If your daughter is highly extroverted, she may crave being around others constantly in just the kinds of settings you've set up for her. I think that even if you get 9/10 responses here from other parents that their kids enjoy/need more downtime, it's not necessarily true for your kid.

I don't think you sound like a bad parent, and I don't think your kid sounds like she's being overstimulated either. I am a fan of structured activity, as long as it's the right kind, in conjunction with free play. So for example regarding your Mandarin lessons, that is not the sort of thing that a purely unschooled child would be likely to learn; but I think it is a good thing to learn. You're doing fine.

I think it is fine, as long as she has time and is not overly stressed in finishing any schoolwork (I missed her age...). The only cautionary thing I would say is that if kids get very attached to a large number of activities, it is excruciating for them to choose between them as they get to later middle school/early high school. As they go along, the expectations for time spent tends to grow. As do their schoolwork demands. Easy to say that she will just give up some, but for some kids (D1 was one), it was a very painful experience.

We learned a lesson, and did not allow D2 to sign up for quite so many things. We let her experiment, but sometimes she had to drop something to add something new in (eg, yes, you can take dance, but you have to finish swimming lessons first). D2's transition to high school has been much smoother because she didn't have to dump a bunch of activities in her 9th grade year like D1 did.

Thanks for the support. DD is 5, turning 6 in Sept. I know gymnastics will have to go, but her body is benefiting so much from the strength training and flexibility. I feel safer for her in the playground when she is doing things with her friends on monkey bars.

And because she is on the small size, swimming is not going to be a big activity. She spends a lot of time at swim camp in the summer because we live at the ocean during the summer and it is safety issue. And we just needed her to be able to handle herself with a big wave if necessary. Starting early, she also had no fear and easily opens her eyes and swims up and towards shore.

But she doesn't seem stressed out and plays all the time.

Ren

Kids change, things change. DS7 went from only wanting to go out of the house once a week to signing up for several academic type classes outside of school in the last few months. Will he ever go the reverse and want less again? Possibly. He's very project/subject driven, and although he loves to have friends, they have never been a huge driver in his behaviour. So long as it's largely what the kid wants, I don't think they'll feel overstretched.

It's good to hear from intparent about what can come about in the future, so some long term planning is called for.

Wren, obviously this is a long ways off for you, but the transition to high school is compounded by the fact that many more new activities open up to them at that time. For example, D2 was able to start Quiz Bowl and Debate in 9th grade. So if they are already super-scheduled with stuff and don't want to give it up, they may miss out on some really good activities. My D1 just tried to stack the new stuff on top, and her grades really suffered. We finally stepped in spring of her 9th grade year and asked to her make some decisions to drop some things. She would have happily given up school and just done extracurricular activities if possible She even wrote one of her college essays about how painful those decisions were.

Also, if you have more than one child, it seems simple to sign up the oldest for a lot of activities. But then when any younger sibs get old enough, all of a sudden you have big logistical challenges getting everyone to their activities. I've never thought it was quite fair that the younger kids often get "drafted" into the same activities the older ones chose just because it is more convenient for the parents (and there is hand me down equipment!). If your oldest is not over scheduled, the younger ones have a better chance of finding their own interests and passions. Sometimes our youngest chose the same things anyway, of course. But sometimes not.

In our case, there won't be another child. We are older, and considered ourselves lucky when DD came naturally. DH got fixed after she came.

And I think that is part of it. I have been to over 50 countries, had amazing experiences and now it is all about DD. I know I will get a million posts that isn't healthy. DH and I tried doing date nights but I still had to get up in the morning and that was hard. Especially now with a dog.

I enjoy her so much because I waited for her for so long. And DD is so amazing and delightful. But that has nothing to do with overscheduling.

I was overscheduled, the way I was raised, and at 11 I chose seriously overscheduling because I started to compete in figure skating and still had piano and ballet. I spent my summers away skating all day. And at 13, in grade 9, I missed over 50 days of school because of skating practice. But my grades never weakened. I was the top in the class pretty much through high school and my math teacher asked me to compete on the math team, while I was cheerleading, on the track team and skating.

So I think it depends on the kid.

Ren

My point of view may not be very popular. I'm certainly not judging anyone's parenting. This is something about which I feel rather passionate.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong about having busy days with kids in lots of activities, but I do think balance is important.

I think our society has got things upside-down these days, with kids' desires taking over everyone's lives. When I was young, parents routinely went out or had folks over for a regular card game or whatever. Routines revolved around the entire family's activities, and things were more well-rounded.

Today, for a lot of families, it's ALL KIDS ALL THE TIME, and I think it's unhealthy. I also think it's difficult to do something different than that unless society changes. For example, I have 2 DSs. If DH and I want them to participate in any sport at their ages (6 and 8), it means a 3 day a week commitment. In my opinion, that's ridiculous at that young age. If they can't be on the same team or don't want to play the same sport, it just multiplies the issue. I know several families with multiple kids and one parent is taking Johnny to his 9 am game, while the other is taking Jane across town to hers, and they're asking someone else to carpool little Mikey to his sport so they can make it all work. And frequently, there are multiple games for each kid each weekend.

And then of course, we all think kids should have some unstructured time after school. But what I see is that after parents have worked all day long, they're the ones making the dinner, setting the table, doing the laundry, doing dishes, etc... while the kids play games or whatever because there's just no other time for unstructured time with all the activities and homework.

I frequently hear that young adults today are self-centered and have a bad work ethic, etc.... In my mind, it's no wonder. The world has revolved around them since the day they were born and it never stops until they're grown up.

I'm a proponent of balance. Do I think that kids should be able to participate in extracurricular activities? Of course, I do. I also think that until they're in high school (or at least middle school), there ought to be options for two days a week for an activity. (Of course, it's different if you have a child who's truly passionate and/or talented in an area.) I also think that kids should have down time, but all of this should be balanced so that they participate in the family routine. Not every day in life is fun after all.

So, my personal opinion of overscheduling is that as long as there's balance, all is well. If things are out of whack, then I think it's important to step back and see if you need to re-evalute.

I don't disagree with your observation Mama. My DD is soon to be 4 and we limit her extra activities to 2 max. She is in school 3 times a week and I would like to have time to just be with her on her off days. But this isn't completely realistic since she loves dance and has been doing it for 2 years, which means she has dance class on one of the days she is off. The other day is completely free.

I also think the amount of extra activities depends on the family and even where they live. New York is an interesting city in that you have so much offered and the opportunity to experience such wonderful things from great resources that if I did live there I would probably be more likely to sign DD up for more.

We have been talking about activities for next year and want to add music into the mix and might even eliminate dance but it really depends on DD.

Yes! I completely agree. One of our main goals as parents is to raise independent children who are not self-centred. Our DD7 is enrolled in two activities at a time, maximum. DH and I both work full-time, I work shift work, and we have a busy toddler. She knows that it is too hard on everyone else in the family to spend all week in the car shuttling her around to activities.



We want to spend time together as a family, not always sitting on the sidelines. DD has plenty of access to downtime, should she ever choose to use it (HA!). She also has a routine and respect for other family members. We always eat meals as a family and there are expectations that she chip in and help around the house.

I look at my sister and her family and I know that we could not do what they do. A boy and a girl, each in 5+ activities. They eat in the car four nights a week and arrive home at bedtime. Each sibling spends a lot of boring (their words) time watching the other at an activity that they are not interested in. There is barely time for homework and they all look exhausted. Maybe we are extreme in the other direction, but it works for us and we are all happy.

I had this grand plan of letting each child have one activity to avoid overscheduling them.

My daughter chose dance, and my son chose gym.I think that is where my plan went all wrong
It was nothing when they were 1 hour per week...but now my daughter is in 3 dance classes each week (which will increase as she hopes to join the company in the future).

Sure, I could make them cut down...but they love what they do, and they have such an emotional need for their activities.

My daughter is the epitome of emotional OE, and dance has been a wonderful way for her to express herself. My son (her psychomotor OE equivalent) has such an intense need for movement that I sometimes wonder if he'd be able to focus at school if he didn't spend so much time in the gym. (he can train for 2 hours and then run 2 miles without blinking an eye)

So, here we are, completely overscheduled with only one activity each...but I figure as long as the kids are happy, content with their amount of "down time," and consistently doing great at school we will keep it up.

Lol, supercrunch. I considered putting in my earlier posts that the most all-consuming activity a kid could pick, as far as I could see from my kids (and kids in my scout troops' experiences) is dance! The kids in it love it, but it is a huge time commitment, and the time ramps up earlier than most other activities. By late middle school, most of the girls I know in it had dropped pretty much everything else. I consider myself lucky that both my kids tried it and had no talent, so quite early

It is huge...but gymnastics just might top it. The Elite level gymnasts (girls) at my son's gym train 30 hours a week (and most of them still attend public school). Luckily the boys max out closer to 20 in their high school years. I guess that's one way to instill time management skills in a kid!

Can be, but doesn't need to be. We're at a really laid-back studio - they don't split off ballet from the combo classes until 4th grade or so, and don't require 2 days a week for another couple of years. And there's no competitive team. Some of the studios here go to twice-weekly lessons for ballet at age 7, and have competitive teams starting at 3s-4s.

It does creep up on you, though. DD7 is adding hip-hop this fall, and if she liked ballet (she tolerates the ballet portions of the ballet / jazz combo class she's in), we'd probably be looking for a studio with more of a ballet focus.

We've done the Nutcracker (through the local non-profit children's ballet) the last couple years, and that eats most of your weekends for 3 months.

We struggle with this a lot. My older DD loves loves loves outside activities. But she also really needs her downtime and she typically has more than an hour of homework a night during the school year. Our school also goes late, to almost 4 PM, so that does not leave a lot of time after school for activities and also downtime.

This last year she did Girl Scouts (2 nights a month plus a Saturday field trip every other month), Girls on the Run two afternoons a week, swim lessons on Sundays and she had weekly therapy for her anxiety.

This year she will keep Girl Scouts, have a weekly social skills group, and she wants to do dance and non-competitive swim team! And maybe drama! We can't do all that, so she is going to have to make some hard choices. When she does too much, it also exacerbates her anxiety and that is not good for any of us!

You can send your dancers to the school I work at! We are 6th through 12th grade arts charter. Our dancers have classes in the school day for 2 hours a day plus most are on the performance team which practices another 2 hours a day. We'll wear them out for you :-)

I actually need to work on overscheduling DS a little bit more. He has school and gymnastics 1x a week and that's it. He so far has shown no interest in anything else but at home complains that all the other kids are doing things outside of school and he doesn't get to. We may add another gym session next school year and I'll also be working to convince his school that he should be allowed to participate in Odyssey of the Mind this year. They only allow 4th and 5th graders for some reason... but that's not our state's rule just a school rule.

My son is busy 5 days a week (half-days) rehearsing for Seussical. He invites the theater kids over to our house when they are not rehearsing. He is still doing once a week piano lessons and still finds time to do a lot of reading. He wants to take guitar lessons and possibly violin. I think he has less anxiety when he is busy.

Here is a tip on Odyssey of the Mind. Your odds of getting a "yes" from the school would go up if you offered to supervise a team. That was one of the problems at our school, not enough leaders, so they reduced the number of teams.

supercrunch, i had that great idea too. and yeah, even with one activity, we are gone all the time!

Actually my odds would go up if the snotty moms involved would let someone else help ;-) Three moms and their 5 kids made up the team this year.

The year that I coached Destination Imagination (formerly Odyssey of the Mind in these parts) was our worst in terms of being over-scheduled. I co-coached then DD9's team. We met after school at my co-coach's house. Although it was a friendly atmosphere for my 2 younger DCs, it was another day out of the house for them after school. It turned out to be a huge negative for then DD7 who was struggling due to some 2e issues that we hadn't identified at that point.

I guess I would caution that coaching DI is a huge commitment and to consider your other kids (if applicable). Ideally, I would recommend recruiting your own team so you have an idea what kind of behavioral issues may be present and whether the group has the desire to work together. I also would find out what level of support is offered by your school to the coaches. I previously had coached at the K-2 level and did not find it to be as onerous as the 3-6 level.

From the posts above, overscheduling seems to be partly defined by how much the parent has to schlep around. If I had 2, I couldn't have DD in the programs she is in.

There was a mother of one of DD's classmates last year who is a ped GI. She works at a hospital one hour away and has 4 children. We were on a field trip together and talking about activies. Their piano practice was limited to 15 minutes because that is what she could help them do. DD does scales for 15 minutes. She has to do them all then contrary.

So it also depends how much time the parent can give to activities.