I have been a lurker for several months and have posted a topic just once when I was feeling really uncertain how to handle a situation with my son. I've learned so much from reading through others' discussions, and I appreciate greatly the quality of the dialog that takes place here, and I have SO many more questions and thoughts I'd like to post, if you all have the patience! So I thought it might be helpful to start with an intro explaining how I ended up here.

My son is a bit over 4. When he was a baby we didn't notice any crazy-advanced milestones, like so many of the kids on here seem to have. He did smile and belly-laugh early (3 weeks and 8 weeks, respectively), but mostly he was pretty average with milestones. He seemed like a bright toddler who picked things up easily - could unlock and navigate the Ipad at 15 months, recognized most letters and numerals sometime around 2, colors and shapes a bit earlier...We were busy with his big sister (2 years older) and didn't teach him explicitly, but he probably picked up on what we were doing with her. I just thought, great, he's a bright baby and is benefitting from having a slightly older sibling.

When he was 2.5 he suddenly began to really surprise us. He developed the first of a series of intense interests, which he will pursue with great fervor. At that age, it was musical instruments/orchestras. He was especially fond of trombones. There was a very short video of an animated (but very realistic) brass band that he wanted to watch over and over. One night, while I was rocking him to sleep, he sleepily commented, "In the brass band, there are 4 trumpeters. And 2 tubas. And 3 French horns and 3 trombones. And 2 drums, and 1 conductor." I ran and checked after he went to sleep, and he was correct. The surprising part is that not all the instruments are shown in the same shot. So he was not only counting with one-to-one correspondence (which we hadn't realized he could do), but also had to do some addition to come up with the correct totals. That was when I started to think something was up with him. He also memorized every detail of any orchestral instrument you could think of, could recognize the mouthpiece of a trombone vs. a French horn at a glance, knew where each instrumental section would sit on the stage, etc. He would make random remarks at the dinner table, such as, "Trumpets have 3 piston valves, but piccolo trumpets have 4."

Since then he's continued to accelerate. He next went through a solar system stage, lasting about 8 months. At 3.5, he could tell you pretty much anything about the planets, dwarf planets, their moons, etc., and could read any related word by sight. He also surprised us one night by sitting down and drawing a to-scale diagram of the planets, in correct order from the sun, with notable features of each planet (as appropriate) such as rings/color, including all major moons, the Kuiper belt, dwarf planets, etc (verbally) labeled. He had shown very little interest in drawing prior to this and I couldn't believe he actually got the relative sizes so close to correct.

The next phase has been an online game (not geared to kids) called Letterpress. That's described in my other post, but in short, you make words out of a grid of 25 randomly presented letters. He has gotten very good over the past 7 months and can now take on adult players quite competently. He is just insanely fast at spotting words: In 10 seconds or less, he'll be able to spot and spell an 7-10 letter word on a brand new board. Neither of his parents can do this. He has also learned to read and write by playing, now approximately at a 2nd-3rd grade level for reading, but I'd guess higher for spelling. (Funny story: One of his teachers was giving him a few words to practice on the white board last week, and after he wrote out a few like "mineral" and "watermelon" correctly, she said "I'm flabbergasted!" Then (jokingly), "Hey, you can't spell "flabbergasted," can you?" And he did, correctly.)

Other notable things include learning to tell time on an analog clock around his 3rd birthday, read a calendar easily by 3.5, read and use maps and globes also by 3.5, a jigsaw puzzle phase (lost interest at around 60 piece puzzles when he was 3), and some intuitive early math abilities (such as calculating how many points each team has in hockey and how many points the other would need to catch up). Also understands MUCH more of baseball than I do, and will sit still and pay attention to an entire game. Also doing/understanding his kindergarten sister's math assignments, just for fun, when he was not yet 3.5.

Anyway, sorry this is so long - there are so many stories I'm not comfortable sharing with friends, and it feels good just to actually get to tell them! I've got to think this kid is out of the norm, but on the other hand, he wasn't a baby who started to talk at 6 months, read at 18 months, etc. I did try the online Ruf estimates a few months ago (before the reading fluency kicked in), and got an estimated Level 2-3 gifted answer. That would be awesome - maybe "optimal." But when he started clobbering me at Letterpress just after his 4th birthday, I started to think he might be more of an outlier than that. This scares me. What do you think?? Should I be concerned about meeting his educational needs (a move to a different state w/o a gifted mandate is in the offing, not sure whether to consider this factor), or just pleased he's a bright kid? I have so many more specific questions to share (including about his older sister - maybe 2E, or have I just been reading too much?), if it seems like this is the right place!

If you've been lurking here for a while, you may have already read about my son. In case you haven't, let me tell you about him. But first, let me tell you about my daughter.

My daughter is now nine. She talked very early, walked early, and read very, very early. She was handily reading chapter books at four. She is, and always has been, outgoing and precocious. She tends to stand out in most situations because she knows so much, learns so quickly, and isn't afraid to let people know. She was nominated for the gifted and talented program in kg, and it wasn't a surprise to anyone that she scored very highly.

My son is 14 months younger than her. He didn't talk early (in fact, he was a little late), he didn't walk early, and he didn't read early. He was reading at about a beginning first grade level when he started kg, but nothing astonishing. He's always been a bit quiet, introverted, and a very literal rule follower, which means he doesn't stand out at all in a typical classroom setting. He happened to have the same kg teacher as his sister, and when I told the teacher that I intended to nominate him for the gifted program as well, she told me, "You really can't expect him to be another [dd]."

However, the thing we had noticed from very early on with DS, was his intensity of curiosity and attention. As a toddler, he would spend hours and hours with his toy trains. At 3, he would pace in circles counting to 1000, or sometimes higher. At 4, he was fascinated by sea animals, and would have us read nonfiction books about sharks to him over and over again. Although I didn't know the term at the time, "rage to learn" definitely describes him.

When the district GT coordinator did his testing after I nominated him for the program, she told us that his numerical scores were a few points too low to qualify. However, she was so enamored by the depth of his conversations about sharks and robots that she pushed the committee to admit him anyway.

He started to really blossom in that program under her guidance, and he hasn't looked back.

He is currently almost eight. He's reading at a high middle school/low high school level. He's doing math at a fifth/sixth grade level. We made the decision to accelerate him to fourth grade next year, partially because we wanted him and DD to be able to work together since they're both so far ahead of their peers. He's a bit 2E, because his handwriting and his articulation are still weak for his age, which makes it more difficult to find educational settings/teachers that are a good fit for him than his sister.

As part of the evaluation process for the acceleration, the school gave him the K-TEA 3. He's just a bit above average in writing/spelling, considerably above average in reading, and in the 99.9%-ile for math. He actually hit the ceiling in math computation.

Both kids are highly/profoundly gifted, but they have different strengths and have followed very different paths.

Don't be discouraged by the lack of early milestones. I really believe some kids just take a bit longer to "come into" their giftedness.

My DD had the same insane intensity for learning very early on and reading literature books fluently by her third birthday and equally strong in math. She also went through astronomy phase. It all started with the moon. Anyway, I thought we were looking into college by 13 or earlier.

Right.

Now a rising second grader, she is so indifferent about "school work." She thinks school is a big waste for time and she just wants to learn the next big concerto or work on her own composition. We might have to move so she can attend a music pre-college.

Kids change and sometimes, dramatically so. I would focus on meeting his current needs while gathering information about available choices.

Thanks so much for the welcome, Portia! The "rage to learn" certainly does seem to describe him. One of the best things about parenting a child like this, for me, has been having him inspire my own curiosity. I'm glad I get to help "feed the rage."

I don't know yet what our local community will be like in terms of resources and support. Some of my nerves have to do with starting kindergarten in 2018. He learned the entire math/reading K curriculum by the time he was 3.5, just by playing and having a big sister. He'll enter K reading at least like a 3rd grader (assuming very little more reading growth in the next year - not likely, given the pace he's been going). Our school district does have very explicitly laid out procedures for identifying and supporting gifted children, so I'm hopeful there. These programs are also the source of a fair amount of tension and jealousy over who gets in and who doesn't. So, having a safe option for social support, on this board, may be very important going forward.

Anyway, thanks again for the welcome.

Cnm, thank you for sharing your story. It definitely gives me some food for thought, especially regarding sibling differences and the way giftedness comes out differently for different children. While I think my son almost certainly falls somewhere along the gifted continuum (time will tell), I have also found myself wondering about my daughter (6). She reminds me of your son in some ways. I may end up making another post about her (probably in the 2E board, since that's what I'm wondering about).

Mana, that's quite an interesting trajectory. Your daughter was ID'd gifted, though, right? So it is that now her "rage to learn" is channeled toward music rather than schoolwork (makes sense, esp. depending on the school)? I'd love to hear more of your story.

My DD5 was not hitting her milestones early and at the 18 month mark, her expressive vocabulary was on the lower end of the expected range. I honestly thought that we would have to look into early intervention because she rarely spoke. However, she knew her alphabets by this time and by her 2nd birthday she was doing those lower case alphabet word puzzles. By 3 she was would not stop talking.

I always thought she was more bright than gifted because i was in denial. Probably because of the general "oh people think their bright kids are gifted" scoffs. She still needed guidance and had to do something multiple times before she got it. But in my head, i thought gifted kids figured things out after 1-2 times. :P For example, she started doing puzzles around 2.5 and by 3y3m she could do 100 piece puzzles on her own. But i thought - well, she still needed help in the beginning...

We definitely feed the rage, and i noticed her development has just jumped in leaps and bounds this past year. Good luck and i hope your local district is able to support your kids!

It's so true about meeting their current needs (wise advice i received from a different thread).

I really hope that my DD doesn't lose her interest in school. She is also in an astronomy and paleontology phase at the moment.

Ok, so DS4 just beat his dad at Letterpress for the first time. Dad had been playing for a year or so, which is how DS learned of the game in the first place. DH and I both have PhDs and both of us hit the ceiling on our verbal GRE sections 10 years or so ago. Both very high on math, too , and both maxed on analytical (which, I believe , no longer exists ). And now our four year old kid is just already surpassing us. I'm kind of freaking out. How are we supposed to parent him? Will anything be a challenge for him? Nothing was for DH until grad school, and that was kind of a disaster , though he did eventually complete his PhD, with honors. Now our preschooler is already surpassing us, and with so little effort. WTF have we gotten ourselves into here?

I might possibly be parenting a child whose cognitive abilities are higher than my own. Her father is a former "wonder child" but aging and parenthood have taken its toll. We are doing ok despite our shortcomings.

IMHO, parenting is a lot about teaching children to be a good person and sharing what you have learned based on your life experiences. Harry Potter series actually has been a good teaching tool for us because she can be a lot like Hermione.

Anyhow, DD was tested during private GT K admission process. She did very well. Back then, she was super smart. A traditional K classroom would have been a disaster so I still think we made the right choice. Going forward, I am not really sure if her current school is still the right fit for her.

She continues to read a lot and is a wickedly funny writer. She is endlessly facinated by science. While she is no longer obsessed by numbers, math is a favorite hobby. It's just that nothing comes close to how much music means to her. She is definitely challenged technically, musically, mentally, and intellectually. We struggled to find a good balance for awhile when she was involved in too many performances but we are in a good place now and DD seems both happy and relaxed.

I would absolutely agree with mana that parenting is so much more than cognition and academics. I don't believe I have the same situation in terms of LOG, but my parents certainly did (not with me; with my sib), and they both have terminal degrees as well. My sib was a preteen when they handed over household accounts and taxes for the business -- because that was the most qualified person to do them (better than the CPA who had been doing their taxes!).

This did not in any way prevent them from parenting effectively, absolve them of responsibility, or eliminate the need for parenting. No, my sib has never, so far as I can tell, been challenged academically, even in grad school or beyond (and that's with extremely radical acceleration), but life contains many more challenges and lessons to learn than academics. My parents were honest, engaged, curious, respectful, and most of all, loving with us, articulating and modeling life principles, and demonstrating that we (and others) were valuable for our humanity, rather than our abilities. "To whom much is given, much is required " was drilled into us; we have not earned our native abilities, and thus have no basis for viewing ourselves as intrinsically superior to anyone else. Rather, gifts are a trust to be administered for the greater good.

Will there be parenting challenges for you? Of course there will. Parenting is uniquely challenging for every parent-child combination. But you've been entrusted with this child, and because you so clearly care about his development and happiness, you will be able to learn how to parent him as all of you grow together through the child-rearing process.

Well put aeh

Agreed, well put.

My kids might be able to learn and absorb info at a shocking rate and in some areas they are much more of an expert than I am but there is always more out there to explore. The older they get, the quicker their questioning results in a "I don't know" from me/DH but then we switch to "what do you think?" or "let's look that up together" or even them teaching me a thing or two. We've had some profoundly deep conversations about life and death with them starting as preschoolers where I certainly don't know all the answers but it is fascinating to talk about with them and see how their perspective changes over the years. I'm not always their teacher or guide and my role is morphing into more of a partner along for the ride and encouraging their love and thirst for learning in any way I can.

The other piece of the puzzle for me is to try to find space/new experiences to expose them to and let them explore and broaden their skills and experience. Regardless of how high their IQ's are there is still much to be learned from life experience. It can be little things like chores and helping with house projects. It can be bigger things like participating in sports, the arts, public service, museums, community events or travel. For travel it doesn't even have to be big - just taking public transit downtown in our hometown can be an adventure especially when you get them to plan the route and be the guides. There are lots of life skills and perspective to be gained by expanding our little bubble.

I also aim to put them in situations where they are more "average". DS11, for example, is not particularly sporty/athletic but we keep signing him up for various team sports. It has been great for him to struggle to learn something, work on it and finally master it. It has been great for him to experience being average or even the worst player on a team. It has been great for him to make mistakes and learn to lose with class. He's learning to be teammates with a wide variety of kids. These are all skills that will serve him well in many aspects of life.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I was having a freak-out moment last night. Your thoughtful responses have helped me step back and see the larger picture again.

Aeh, I especially appreciated your description of your own parents' approach. They sound like amazing people.

Your DS clearly has extreme focus and high ability in specific domains. You have done an excellent job in providing a stimulating environment. Short of medical catastrophes or extreme deprivation, he will not end up anywhere near average. However, at age 4, it is difficult to see where he will end up in ten years or even in five years. Children has such diverse rate and timing of development as well as so many potential areas of development at any given time. Focus and passions also change. If his IQ concerns you, then perhaps consider testing in a year (minimum age for DYS) even though it will be another five years (about age 9) before IQ is likely to be stabilized. In short and in answer to your specific question posed at the end, I would not be overly "concerned with meeting his educational needs" or "just pleased that he is a bright kid" either. Perhaps somewhere in between: start familiarizing yourself with educational options/supplements but consider his "brightness" as just another characteristic rather than an issue of joy/pride.