Vent:

DS7 is in second grade in a public school that has worked hard with us over the past couple years to get to know him and find ways to help him succeed. His first grade teacher helped him a ton - mostly with managing his emotions and learning to function in a crowd. She also was along for the ride when he learned taught himself to read and had the virtue of not getting in his way

By all accounts we have the pick of the litter for second grade teachers, and he seems positive about her. Some of the projects he has told me about sound actually interesting! And in fact for him to be telling me anything about class at all is a novelty. I have a sense things could be going much worse.

BUT - arrrgh. The "work" that came home in his folder from last week. The largest piece of "work" was multiple pages covered with rows and rows of boxes into which the kids were supposed to write numbers, counting as high as they could. Apparently some of the more ... compliant ... kids filled in numbers up to 400 and more. DS did 2 pages - up to about 150, then clearly declared all stop as the next page has a big X in each box!

Good lord - they've been doing this "counting" and writing numbers since K. Even back then he declared it a stupid waste of time. He did get a green star and "good job" for the numbers he wrote. And I suppose we could look at this as writing practice which he definitely could use. But sheesh!

Vent over ... and thanks for listening!

Sue

You have my sympathies that is even worse than the 'plus one' facts.

In second grade? Sympathy given. Since it's the beginning of the year maybe is an informal assessment? On handwriting as well as numbers?

Ooooo.

That would NOT have been a good way to adequately assess anything but DD's oppositional streak, I fear.

Thanks all for making me smile.

For now, I'm giving them benefit of the doubt that this is assessment, including writing, as you suggest BlueMagic. And happy for them to see what a struggle writing is for DS! But if they "assess" like this repeatedly, they are indeed going to get a heavy dose of hard-headedness a la HK's DD.

On the other hand - I'm happy to get it on the table that DS is not motivated by typical strategies. Hope Teacher can/will learn to give him a good reason WHY. It's the simplest path to getting his buy-in.

And really it's easier than getting in a battle with him (like K teacher did), which only leads to rapidly escalating no-winner hostilities. First grade teacher will probably be an ally here....

Ah school!

Oh, man, my daughter was always woefully behind on her "number scrolls" too. When she sees work that's pointless (rote, tons and f copying type stuff that she already gets, etc) she just becomes a good union slowdown worker. Fingers crossed the new teacher gets your kid, and soon!

Ds6 had to count in tens as high as he could. He figured 200 was high enough to prove he could do it. Ds8 declined to write a letter explaining why he shouldn't have to do homework the next week (the winner got a week off homework) on the grounds that it would take him longer to write the letter than tfort to do the homework and at best he had a one in thirty chance of winning. Why do the teachers think the kids will go for such stuff. This week one of ds6's homework tasks is to build a fort in his room and attach a photo to his homework sheet. What? Not unless he chooses to he wont as i am not insisting on it.

From a slightly different temperament: #1 stopped recording books in the class reading competition, because winning isn't as important as reading (after all, the point of the competition is to encourage children to read, and one is already reading all the time), and there was another child for whom winning mattered.

Went through this again in a later grade, with regard to recording times in the required reading log. Of course, this counted into one's grade.

This is true in my family, too. One child is a competitive, driven, teacher-pleaser and the other is exact opposite. Even though their IQ profiles (GAI, anyhow, don't know DD's processing speed but suspect it's much higher than DS') are very similar in terms of VCI v. PRI. I would expect them to be more "alike" but they are as different as day and night. DD would fill out those assignments because she cares about how she is perceived, even though she might (privately) complain.

We always did the reading log, it but made it up. Sometimes you read an hour one night but play with Legos the next...that translated to 1/2 hour for two nights. (We never lied about the books read...more like the time and day portions). My kids read plenty over the half hour a night I was NOT going to let a silly reading log run our life schedule if we were skipping a night.

I explained to the boys the idea of average reading time over a whole week and that we weren't lying as much as coping within the confines of the institutional regulations while still meeting the goals of getting kids to read. And the boys always tested years and years above grade level so I felt like they were lucky we were filling it out at all. So far faked reading logs have not led to a life of crime.

We started out by fudging the data, too. Then we met with the teacher and said that, since the hard part is getting DD to stop reading, the reading log was a waste of our time and we weren't going to do it anymore. The teacher was quick to agree, and that was the end of that.

Beautiful. I'm copying you.

Yes, that's pretty much what we did with both kids, Dude. No pushback from any teacher so far.

My son is not a big reader (despite reading very early) so I have to push him to read. The reading log this summer has made him into a mathematician though, because all he cared about is how to allocate the books over the remaining days before school starts. This changes everyday because he puts off reading his allocated number of books. He is much better at math now than when summer started. Unintended consequence?

Precisely. We learned very early on that cyberschools were ALL about this sort of data. Preferably in web forms that accepted rather restricted character strings. LOL.

We used this approach with PE in our asthmatic child, too-- an average of 120 minutes a week does NOT necessarily mean that on those weeks when activity is restricted, that you can't "borrow" some minutes from another week when you go running 90 minutes daily. KWIM?


DD's average reading time daily at 6-10 yo was 4h+ if I'd allow it, so I never had any qualms about entering a value that "met" the benchmark that they needed to show kids meeting. Those forms weren't about kids like mine. {shrug}

Oh, how I love this...

We have not had serious encounters with reading logs yet. If we do, I'm copying your approach.

We did the "fudged" reading log too. I couldn't stand DD feeling guilty for having one blank spot on her log that was surrounded by multiple days of multiple hours of reading.

In middle school (here MS is 6, 7, 8th grades) they switched from the log to a points system, where after reading a book you took a quiz on a computer and earned points. That seemed to work much better as it was an indicator of overall reading amount, rather than how many nights in a row you have free time to read. (Slight brag - deciding to put the pedal to the metal in 8th grade - DD ended up with more points than the combined scores of the 2nd and 3rd place students.)

Best of luck,
--S.F.

Starting in second grade it became all about the AR points and no more reading logs. And there was a bit of competition to it. My son had hit high AR points for not only his grade but also the entire school when he was in second grade. He skipped third grade and had high points again in fourth grade. I had been saying all along reading shouldn't be a competition and they dropped posting the high points in fifth grade because why bother....he was going to win again. And they went out and got all sorts of prizes last year for the high ar point kids for each grade but instead of giving him the best prize (a tablet) they put all the names in a hat and pulled for the prizes....even though no one was close to his points. But this isn't what education should do. Readers already read and enjoy reading. Prizes and competition don't help them get better....and poor readers I feel are just discouraged because they can't beat a kid like mine.

Reading logs=the way to kill the love of reading in my uber-reader...they have become the bane of our existence. DD10 needs absolutely no encouragement to read and needs to be told to STOP reading in order to complete other homework. But she detests having to record what or how much she reads. DD's oppositional streak ran headlong into the newly instituted reading-log requirement of a long-term sub last year...DD just flat out refused to record her time and resisted our suggestions to "just do it." (Sigh)

So guess what this year's new teacher started out the year asking the students to do? It's going to be a long year...

That is my sentiment exactly, Cookie. Why incentivize something that is innately and intrinsically its OWN reward-- it doesn't make sense.

I mean, I'm all for people who don't enjoy it to personalize their own goals for learning the habit-- much the way one might say "I'm treating myself to _____" when I reach my goal of going to the gym 100 days in a row, or something.

That's great. But making it a competition really doesn't help most of the people who NEED the incentive.

DD8 reads a lot, several years ahead, and recently she and I decided that reading logs are a distracting WOT but she wasn't keen to give up the rewards that came with it. Which is fair enough - to an 8 year old it's sweet to be rewarded for something you're always going to do anyway.
So we talked to her (awesome) teacher and agreed I could just write "DD read all week" and sign it (for show, so the other kids in the class don't feel ripped off).
I'm not at all big on bribing kids, for anything, but maybe I can only say that because it doesn't really work on my kids They do things because they want to or because they need to! Stickers, coins and candy don't affect either of those things

Stickers, coins and candy don't affect either of those things....

Right but if stickers, coins, candy or other prizes are being handed out...they don't want to be left out when they are passed around (if the prize is good enough).

My DD10 has never seen a prize so worthless that she doesn't want it. Luckily, there were no prizes associated with the nightly reading log. The public library summer reading program, now...

My kids never did the logs (and they didn't fail LA), and they never responded to rewards, especially the summer library programs. They thought the rulers, yoyos, pencils, etc were lame, so by the time they were 13 and could win an iTunes card or a gift certificate to the local indie bookseller, they said "meh". I asked if they'd do it anyway and give ME the prize! Nope.

Unfortunately, this lack of incentive carries over to grades. They don't go for the As. Or Bs...

Yup.. those rewards never really interested DS. Didn't work for potty training, never worked for anything academic. He honestly doesn't care about having a lot of stuff. As long as he has his computer and a few clothes to put on his body he is happy.

Our school has a trip to the rec center for those who turn in three reading logs from the summer, which motivates DD9, and they also can turn each log in to the little store for a free ice cream bar, so that keeps her going all summer. The library has gone to a points system where each reading log gets a "dollar" that can be used to "buy" prizes, and she makes out pretty good on the worthless prizes there, too.

Our problem is that we stink at filling out reading logs -- luckily, neither the school nor the library care if we fudge them and only put the minimal scribble of what book it was, without filling in times and all that garbage. They know she's reading tons.

DD's new teacher this year had a form to fill out to tell her about the students, and one of the questions asked about your homework routine. I wrote, "Err... try and get it done at bedtime if she remembered to bring it home?"

I wonder if doing it in Excel is out of the question?

Ugh - I hate reading logs! We tried Dude's approach last year for DD10 who reads all the time (in English, anyway). Teacher said that she should fill in the logs anyway to 'develop executive function skills'.

French reading was a bigger struggle because she didn't want to do the French reading - she put it off and then had anxiety attacks because it wasn't done.

DS7 (who can read but not for long periods due to his vision issues) just flat out refused to do it - both the reading and the logs.

LOL - sounds like my house!

I think I must be getting grumpier in my old age, this would make me see red!

Those miserable, wretched reading logs have terribly affected DS9's love of reading. He now refuses to read anything if he thinks he "has to" (which has taken most fiction out of the mix). After two years of reluctantly tolerating them he started, in grade 2, to pretend he hadn't actually read books I had seen him read because he didn't want to put them in the log. I filled it in the rest of that year, knowing he rarely stopped reading, and then flatly refused to log anything in grades 3 & 4. Damage done, though. DD7, on the other hand, has never met a log she didn't love. Especially the ones with cheap prizes attached (hello summer reading club).

This stuff petered out for our DD in 2nd grade. By then we were only entering about one in every ten books even and eventually we just stopped doing it. Kids that love to read are simply going to be put off when they realise that something fun like reading merely translates into a lot of busywork.

Exactly. The problem with my kids at that age was to get them to STOP READING AND GO TO SLEEP!!!* Rebel that I am, I would just fill in the the log with fake or semi-true entries, so as to reduce the grade 2 paperwork burden.

*Really, it's still the problem with two of them at ages 11 and 13.

So I feel honor bound to follow up. The other day DS7-second grade brought home "math" homework that was really a writing task. "Write a math story about this picture." Totally easy and DS had a meltdown over it. We got through it, but it was ugly. Had to break the task up. What do you want to say? Ok - let me type that so we can see it. Now we know what you want to say. Let's work on writing it. Bit by bit, we got it on paper. Really painful.

So I emailed teacher about it, and she suggested a meeting. She started by asking me my thoughts, listened, liked the way we solved the problem. Then she OFFERED this: "Look, I just want to know what DS is thinking, what he wants to say about the problem. Whatever it takes. Type it out, print it and tape to the page. Take turns writing words, or letters or whatever. You can even write for him. Just use your judgement about when he's struggling, and what he needs. And thanks for bringing this to my attention. Keep an eye on it and I will, too. But whatever you do - no tears or meltdowns over homework. If that's happening let me know and we'll work it out."

Then she went on to give me a heads up on how the first few weeks have gone for DS, and what a funny, smart guy he is, and how cool it is that he keeps her on her toes. "Still working on a few impulsiveness things - but he's working hard and doing great."

uhhh - uhhhh - uhhh. Flabbergasted. So pleased. Fingers crossed going forward.

Sue
ETA - I realize this has nothing to do with differentiation. But to have those accommodations and positive comments offered up made me feel optimistic.

Humongous smiles for you, Sue - what a teacher!

That is great! Sounds like this teacher is really willing to listen to, respect, and collaborate with families.

Oh, it's differentiation all right. Trying to meet the student's needs as an individual.

Awesome.

It is differentiation of a sort: she's being flexible with the requirements so that she can get what she needs (insight into whether or not he "gets" the thing she's trying to teach) in a way that works for him to produce it. That's a nice start. I'd be hopeful over that.

We only started school on 9/9 so we're less than 2 weeks in and DS is so far happy as a clam, but the sheer volume of coloring sheets that have come home is driving me a little nuts. I'm hoping this is busy work while they do beginning-of-the-year assessments.