summertime behaviors..or something else? - Gifted Issues Discussion Forum

So DH and I are getting really frustrated with PG DS5 right now...not sure if I'm overblowing things or what. He has started lying/making excuses when he either doesn't to to something or thinks the truth will get him in trouble. We have had multiple conversations about it, but it doesn't seem to be sticking. In conjunction, he has been saying that he is 'too tired' to do lots of things, including endure conversations where we try to figure out WHY he is lying etc...but then, when we say 'ok, well if you are tired, go to bed', he quickly turns it around to, 'well I'm not THAT tired.' because he wants to play. Infuriating. On top of that, this is happening at the same time as what seems to be a period of disinterest in a lot of things he was very into recently. Example: he didn't participate in his mandarin class at his camp today (which he usually loves) because he was 'too tired' (so he played outside...logic?) which eventually turned into 'it's too long' and then 'it's boring' and then 'I wanted to do more writing, not speaking'...still don't really know the truth. Not sure if it's the heat, lack of sleep (not enough hours of sleep has always been an issue, but this reaction is not so normal), lack of a real routine in the summer, or some sort of sickness/growthspurt/kid-grumpy-stage. I'm just...frustrated. I don't want to sit down every day to have the lying conversation. And I'm fine with him wanting to play instead of do academic things but he seems so...I don't know. All over the place. Whiny. Sleepy. Just weird - not like himself. Wondering if I should call the doctor, or just let it go for a while. I'm really Not sure how to approach. Does anyone have experience with this? Thoughts?

Thanks

My DD would exhibit similar behaviors at that age when she was fighting off something. The crankiness, lack of patience, shortened attention span and general lethargy was usually a sign of lack of sleep, paradoxically over stimulation or getting ill. Occasionally, we would see it before a growth spurt or a developmental milestone.

Is he sleeping well?

I find it not unusual for kids--especially young ones--to have cranky periods at the end of the summer (tired from "too much" play, transitioning into school--in this case maybe his first real school experience?), or, as you suggest, during a growth spurt. Putting a little more routine back in his life, with emphasis on sleep, is probably a good place to start from. Also I have found that I have to remind myself not to come down excessively on lying/making excuses, as it shuts down communication, and makes it difficult to find out what's really happening. ("We will love you no matter what you do or say. We need to know what you really think/said/did/saw/experienced so we can do our best to help make the situation better.")

Re the lying - you should know it's not that unusual. I can't remember her name - but there was a researcher who did the first compilation of characteristics of profoundly gifted kids - more than 60 years ago. I remember reading the characteristics and blushing when I realized this applied to gifted-but-not-PG me (as a child - I think I'm better now): a tendency toward extreme mendacity. Maybe somebody who remembers her name can link to the actual article ....

So anyway - teaching them that lying is not the right way to go is soooooo important. And aeh's words are wise here. But I just wanted you to know you're not dealing with some weird character flaw. I sort of freaked out when DS7 went through this phase.

The multiple conversations have all about how lying is never the solution..that it will be worse than the thing he is trying to cover up. We've tryed to explain that we don't know what's going on in his head...and that when he lies it makes us have issues trusting what he says...and we have definitely said (but maybe should reiterate) that we will love him no matter what he says. It's just...I guess it's not sinking in yet. Or the defense mechanism is too strong in him at the moment. It's just driving me bananas.

aeh, I think the lack of a more regular routine is definitely an issue. Luckily, school starts soon - and until then, maybe we can work out a little more of an at home schedule.

Honestly Marnie, with DS it almost seemed like a fascination with the fact that he COULD. He's an incredible actor. But his sense of justice kicked in and the phase passed after a couple of months. I'll bet the same will happen for your son. he's just experiencing this weird sense of power.

Of course DS is still "too tired" to do unpleasant things. But I think that's just proxy for "I don't want to." I don't really take it as lying.

Hugs,
Sue

He is five. Five year olds lie sometimes. They also often prefer to play than do whatever we think they should prefer. They also aren't at explaining what is wrong - an adult may just say tbey feel 'a bit off'. He says he is tired but that isn't accepted so he tries to explain better and that isn't accepted either so he tries again hoping to come up with an explanation that will satisfy. He lies because it easier at the time but he doesn't think tge way we do and worse later does not outweigh the disinclination to do it now. He is five.

But get a medical and an eye check up and try and find out whether he is nervous about starting school and if the older kids have been telling him horror stories about school.

Originally Posted by madeinuk

My DD would exhibit similar behaviors at that age when she was fighting off something.

Not like you don't have the plague at your house right now...

Did you watch the multipotentialite TED talk I sent you? Maybe he *is* bored, and needs to shake things up a little bit. And never underestimate the power of asynchronous development to throw a monkey wrench into parenting. Sometimes he's like talking to a short adult, but at the end of the day, he's still 5.

Originally Posted by Marnie

So DH and I are getting really frustrated with PG DS5 right now...not sure if I'm overblowing things or what. He has started lying/making excuses when he either doesn't to to something or thinks the truth will get him in trouble. We have had multiple conversations about it, but it doesn't seem to be sticking.

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In conjunction, he has been saying that he is 'too tired' to do lots of things, including endure conversations where we try to figure out WHY he is lying etc...but then, when we say 'ok, well if you are tired, go to bed', he quickly turns it around to, 'well I'm not THAT tired.' because he wants to play. Infuriating.

I'm sure this is frustrating to deal with, but there are truly so many different types of "tired" - it's not a one-size fits all word. Sometimes tired means a person needs sleep, sometimes it means a person just needs a change of conversation or scenery. A five-year old, no matter how high there cognitive ability is, usually isn't going to tell you that "I'm tired of this conversation so let's drop it for now and move on"... which is what I'm guessing he really wanted to do. I think it's pretty typical behavior at 5 to both lie about why you did something your parents wouldn't have wanted you to do, and to lie to get out of having to face something you didn't want to. It's all developmental, and in a few years with a bit more maturity and a bit more real-world life experience, he'll most likely respond differently. For now, try to keep the conversations short - if he lies tell him that it's not acceptable and why, but if you can't get to the core of what's up with in-depth conversation, don't try to just keep digging digging digging while he's resisting.

[quote]On top of that, this is happening at the same time as what seems to be a period of disinterest in a lot of things he was very into recently. Example: he didn't participate in his mandarin class at his camp today (which he usually loves) because he was 'too tired' (so he played outside...logic?) which eventually turned into 'it's too long' and then 'it's boring' and then 'I wanted to do more writing, not speaking'...still don't really know the truth.

Couldn't all of those things be pieces of the truth? He wanted to be doing something different than what the group was doing (writing, not speaking). It was too hard. Maybe speaking Mandarin is a lot of work for him. The hard work made him tired. Playing outside is easy for your brain - you get to relax, have fun, and not have to think hard. Maybe he loves loves loves Mandarin lessons every other day of camp, but whatever they were doing on this day was tough or he just needed a day to not have to do it or whatever. Maybe they were doing the same thing they'd been doing for the past week and he was just bored. Whatever it was, I wouldn't worry about one day of not enjoying his camp. If he's having difficulty with things over a period of time I'd look into it, but in general, it sounds like he's a very typical 5 year old

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Not sure if it's the heat, lack of sleep (not enough hours of sleep has always been an issue, but this reaction is not so normal), lack of a real routine in the summer, or some sort of sickness/growthspurt/kid-grumpy-stage. I'm just...frustrated. I don't want to sit down every day to have the lying conversation.

It's a frustrating age/stage, and it can be very tiring for parents - but try to not overthink it too much. There's going to be a day in the not-so-distance future when you'll miss 5! Reduce the length of the "lying conversation" and just correct him when he lies.

I also wouldn't be surprised if what your seeing isn't due to a kid who's about ready for a huge growth spurt (mentally or physically) or just due to being on the end-run of a long summer.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Easier said than done, but I would relax about this and let it sort itself out. Although he is PG, he is also five. Doesn't have all the tools for sorting his feelings and preferences out yet in a manner adults buy into. I'm not even sure I would call what he's doing lying, which has moral overtones, of course.

FWIW, we have a five year old as well. Not tested, but very bright (his brother tested as PG, we're guessing he's up there, too). I'd say he is going through something akin to a regression period. Lots of small and large tantrums, hard to direct, rebellious, almost distracted acting, for lack of a clearer term. Otherwise, he's a delight. ;-)

We are currently chalking it up to the impending transition to K.

Thanks everyone - all the advice helps. The house HAS been a quite bubonic these last weeks, Stacey

. (also...to the TED talk...no? maybe? can you send it to me again?) And good point about the moral implications of lying, ConnectingDots..he's clearly not trying to deceive so much as not get in trouble/say the right thing. Fine lines, sure, but worth noting.

Also will take the note about just correcting him versus having the lying 'talks', polarbear - I think that's a good direction to go in.

We'll try and take the deep breaths. School is starting soon and he is excited about that so hopefully that will be positive transition. Crossing fingers!