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Posted By: Bostonian Colleges ranked by value added - 05/01/15 07:56 PM
The Brookings Institution has created a new way to rank colleges that I think is interesting because it tries to adjust outcomes for the characteristics of matriculating students.

Schools can be ranked at http://www.brookings.edu/research/r...e-rankings-rothwell-kulkarni#interactive , and raw data for all schools can be downloaded. The top ranks are not as dominated by famous schools as the top ranks from some other lists.

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The choice of college is among the most important investment decisions individuals and families make, yet people know little about how institutions of higher learning compare along important dimensions of quality. This is especially true for colleges granting credentials of two years or less, which graduate two out of five postsecondary graduates. Moreover, popular rankings from U.S. News, Forbes, and Money focus only on a small fraction of four-year colleges and tend to reward highly selective institutions over those that may contribute the most to student success.

Drawing on government and private sources, this report analyzes college “value-added,” the difference between actual alumni outcomes (like salaries) and the outcomes one would expect given a student’s characteristics and the type of institution. Value-added captures the benefits that accrue from aspects of college quality we can measure, such as graduation rates and the market value of the skills a college teaches, as well as aspects we can’t.

The value-added measures introduced here improve on conventional rankings in several ways. They are available for a much larger number of schools; they focus on the factors that best predict measurable economic outcomes; and they attempt to isolate the effect colleges themselves have on those outcomes, above and beyond what students’ backgrounds would predict.

Posted By: Dude Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/01/15 08:49 PM
Let's just set aside the obvious problems of monetizing humans for a bit, and focus on the idea that improving college rankings is a lot like adding after-market accessories to an old Yugo.
Posted By: indigo Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/01/15 10:27 PM
Thank you, Bostonian, for sharing this resource. This tool provides another source of information for return on college investment, as measured in part by graduate earnings and college loan debt. I found the "College Value-Added Data Explorer" to be fun and quick to use.

While ratings may always be subjective, it is interesting to see colleges ranked/rated by different criteria. Similar to the High School Rankings, the measurement criteria make quite a bit of difference as to who scores well.

This article reminded me of the book, How College Affects Students, by Ernest T. Pascarella & Patrick T. Terenzini.

Link to prior post - http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....College_Affects_Students.html#Post176321 (2013)
Posted By: indigo Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/02/15 09:24 PM
Here's a new book, fresh-off-the-press less than a month ago (April 7, 2015), which offers a different perspective: It's the Student, Not the College.
TO: All students wondering “Can I get into my dream college?”
CC: All parents wondering “Can we afford it?”
FROM: Educational consultant Kristin M. White

MEMO: COLLEGE RANKINGS DON’T MATTER. This claim might sound crazy, but it’s true: Research shows that where you go to school makes little difference to future financial success or quality of life—personal qualities such as ambition, perseverance, and a sense of purpose are all more important.

Kristin M. White has helped hundreds of parents and students look beyond the dream-school hype and focus on what’s most important. Now, in It’s the Student, Not the College, she shows how to avoid unrepayable debt and set yourself up to grow, excel, and enjoy yourself at any school.

Instead of obsessing over GPA cutoffs and SAT scores, students will learn how to build a personal “Success Profile”—by adopting the traits that help stellar students make the grade in school and life. Plus . . .
•Why what you do in school counts more than where you go
•14 surefire ways to develop your Success Profile as a student and beyond
•Criteria to consider when choosing a college
•How to find a good fit for your family’s finances
•And tips for graduating career-ready and landing a great first job.
Expensive, elite colleges have too much sway over the minds and bank accounts of students and parents. It’s the Student, Not the College breaks that stranglehold—and reveals the real secrets of success.
Posted By: Bostonian Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 01:32 PM
A favorable evaluation of the Brookings evaluations:

Is it possible to calculate how much value a college adds?
by George Leef
Pope Center for Higher Education Policy
May 13, 2015

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For decades, Americans have been infatuated with the U.S. News college rankings, which is foolish because those rankings have almost nothing to do with educational results and everything to do with input measures and subjective estimates of “reputation.” (For the Pope Center’s assessment, see this paper Michael Lowrey and I wrote in 2004.) Quite a few rival college rankings have appeared on the scene, but so far not one has put much of a dent in the dominance of U.S. News. The Brookings system is vastly superior, and might do so.

One reason for liking it is that the data help to crush some mistaken notions about higher education. We often hear, for instance, that students should always prefer the most prestigious school they can possibly get into because they do so much more to enhance a student’s chances for success.

But that’s not necessarily so. Near the top of the four-year schools, we find Harvard and Drake University (Des Moines, Iowa) with almost identical numbers. Apparently, Drake is doing quite a lot for most of its students. Good students who can’t get into Harvard or other elite universities shouldn’t despair because it’s possible to get a good, useful education at colleges few people have heard of. That, incidentally, is the point of Frank Bruni’s recent book Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be, which I reviewed here. The Brookings results support his argument.
Posted By: indigo Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Bostonian
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...it’s possible to get a good, useful education at colleges few people have heard of. That, incidentally, is the point of Frank Bruni’s recent book Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be, which I reviewed here. The Brookings results support his argument.
Recent thread, Where You'll Go Is Not Who You'll Be.
Posted By: amylou Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Dude
Let's just set aside the obvious problems of monetizing humans for a bit, and focus on the idea that improving college rankings is a lot like adding after-market accessories to an old Yugo.

Thanks, Dude, for capturing my reaction so succinctly. I often tell students that when I was selecting colleges for both undergraduate and graduate school, the things that turned out to matter most to me were not the things I agonized over in deciding. Now that I am 25+ years beyond the PhD, I feel fortunate to have had great experiences and opportunities as a student that led to a gratifying career, despite being clueless in the college selection process.
Posted By: indigo Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by amylou
I often tell students that when I was selecting colleges for both undergraduate and graduate school, the things that turned out to matter most to me were not the things I agonized over in deciding.
Would you care to share those things which mattered most, but were not considered in your selection process?

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Now that I am 25+ years beyond the PhD, I feel fortunate to have had great experiences and opportunities as a student that led to a gratifying career, despite being clueless in the college selection process.
Unfortunately, much has changed in 25 years, with tuition costs skyrocketing even as the economy and job prospects shrink. These dynamics may help to explain the interest in optimizing decisions regarding postsecondary education.
Posted By: amylou Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by indigo
Originally Posted by amylou
I often tell students that when I was selecting colleges for both undergraduate and graduate school, the things that turned out to matter most to me were not the things I agonized over in deciding.
Would you care to share those things which mattered most, but were not considered in your selection process?

When you boil it down, it was the relationships I was able to develop with particular individuals I worked with as a student that mattered most.

When I started grad school, I had to drive 8 hours when I moved and cried pretty much the whole way, largely because of compromises made in selecting a school. As I had suspected, the research advisor I had been matched with was not a good fit, but then I switched advisors early on after completing a project for my MS degree with the first one. I could not have asked for a better (for me) PhD advisor than the one I had. That serendipitous sequence of events ended up having a huge (positive) impact on my ensuing career, for several reasons.
Posted By: indigo Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/13/15 06:10 PM
Relationships! smile

"Excellent Sheep"[/i] ]The compulsive overachievement of today's elite college students-- the sense that they need to keep running as fast as they can-- is not the only thing that keeps them from forming the deeper relationships that might relieve their anguish.

Isolated from their peers, these kids are also cut off from themselves. The endless hoop-jumping... that got them into an elite college in the first place--the clubs, bands, projects, teams, APs, SATs, evenings, weekends, summers, coaches , tutors, leadership, service -- left them no time to figure out what they want out of life.

Too many students, perhaps after a year or two spent using college as a treadmill to nowhere, wake up in crisis, not knowing why they have worked so hard.

"I hate all my activities, I hate all my classes, I hated everything I did in high school, expect to hate my job, and this is just how it's going to be for the rest of my life."

The result is what we might refer to as credentialism. The purpose of life becomes the accumulation of gold stars. Hence the relentless extracurricular busyness, the neglect of learning as an end in itself, the inability to imagine doing something that you can't put on your resume...the constant sense of competition....to be played out within the same narrow conception of what constitutes a valid life: affluence, credentials, and prestige.

If those of us who went to college in the 1970s and '80s no longer recognize the admissions process, if today's elite students appear to be an alien species --Super People, perhaps, or a race of bionic hamsters
Posted By: cmguy Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 03:05 PM
"Kid who got in to every Ivy League school is going to the University of Alabama — and it's a brilliant decision"

http://www.businessinsider.com/rona...-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5

He is getting a full ride in an honors program. Seems like a great decision to me ...
Posted By: JonLaw Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by cmguy
"Kid who got in to every Ivy League school is going to the University of Alabama — and it's a brilliant decision"

http://www.businessinsider.com/rona...-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5

He is getting a full ride in an honors program. Seems like a great decision to me ...

Yes, but you lose the aura of greater glory that the more splendid institutions impart.

And such glory cannot be purchased...it can only be granted through the arm of the sovereign institutions themselves.

Harvard...Yale...these are where the glory is added.

In the other, lesser places, those places where the proletariat walks, you are likely to sink into the mire and be lost forever while others stand athwart history and lead us into the gleaming tomorrow.
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 04:01 PM
So you're saying that the most important relationship of all is with....





Victory er--destiny, then? cool



Posted By: JonLaw Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
So you're saying that the most important relationship of all is with....

Victory er--destiny, then? cool

Not destiny, so much as a kind of transcendent glory that radiates from within.

There are so few of these colleges that there's almost no point in "ranking" per se.

They simply "are."

When you are in the presence of such a student, you can tell if it is one of these colleges because you are filled with an overwhelming sense of awe.

Whereas other students simply fill you with a sense of dustiness and perhaps tarnished brass.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by JonLaw
Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
So you're saying that the most important relationship of all is with....

Victory er--destiny, then? cool

Not destiny, so much as a kind of transcendent glory that radiates from within.

There are so few of these colleges that there's almost no point in "ranking" per se.

They simply "are."

When you are in the presence of such a student, you can tell if it is one of these colleges because you are filled with an overwhelming sense of awe.

Whereas other students simply fill you with a sense of dustiness and perhaps tarnished brass.

Copying this to send to my mom. Who keeps taking dd14 to Princeton every time she visits.
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 11:23 PM
Oh, I'm filled with an overwhelming sense of something, all right.

whistle

I must say, Jon, not much makes me literally burst out laughing to the point of tears, but that post did the job. I thank you.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/15/15 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
Oh, I'm filled with an overwhelming sense of something, all right.

whistle

I must say, Jon, not much makes me literally burst out laughing to the point of tears, but that post did the job. I thank you.
Me too...my mom didn't see the humour though...:)
Posted By: madeinuk Re: Colleges ranked by value added - 05/16/15 10:06 AM
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Copying this to send to my mom. Who keeps taking dd14 to Princeton every time she visits.

As long as every trip involves a visit to the Bent Spoon it isn't all bad :-)
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