We are posting to the DC area from Australia in the next 12-24 months. DH is likely to move sooner as DD wants to finish school in Australia first which will occur in Nov/Dec 2016 and I will stay here with her until she does.

The University selection and admission process is very different in the US and I am seeking all or any advice on choosing and admitting to a Uni for DD, remembering she is an International applicant so slightly different again to domestic applicants.

Background: DD is turning 14 and in yr 11 this year. She is stronger in Maths, Chem and Physics but is taking Advanced English as well. She is not sure what she wants to do but a STEM orientation is possible. Forensic psychology and criminolgy also rate. Due to her age she will live at home. We will choose our rental home based on where DD can access Uni through public transport.

We can do both SAT and ACT in Australia if needed. American University is one option and they specifically do not want either for International applicants.

I am aware there is a long lead time to apply to Uni in the States so am starting the process now although DD will not have final info needed to apply until Dec 2016. This puts her in the Fall 2017 intake. That's fine as she will have a gap year to travel with us and become established.

All thoughts are welcome. I have been looking at the big and small Universities. Personal attention would suit DD better as she is quiet and introverted. It is not something she would get easily here at the big Universities. Thank you to those who started helping on the other thread.

Have you looked at College Confidential?

The Davidson Database includes many helpful articles, including College Thinkin' which includes a typical timeline.

Well another good web site to look at is US News & World Reports. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges Just keep in mind that their "ratings" are only one such metric don't get too hung on up on their rating numbers. But their web-site has a lot of good information side by side.

I don't personally know too much about the universities in D.C. Will you be looking just outside in the beltway as well? The only D.C. schools I know students who attended are American University, and Georgetown.

As for U.S. private schools your daughter will want not only grades from her school & SAT or ACT's, but a list of extra-curriculars, a teacher recommendation, and she will need to write a personal essay. My experience is 'test optional' schools in the U.S. required a writing portfolio instead of the SAT's. So at least for my son the SAT's are preferable.

Is cost an issue? Will you be able to play for the cost of a private elite university?

Have you considered John Hopkins or other schools in Baltimore. I know it's not D.C. but it is within what some Americans would considering commuting distance. Depends on how big a deal it would be for your husband to commute, or where exactly you want to live. Or how far is comfortable for your daughter to commute. How old will she be in Fall 2017?

For what it's worth do know a young adult who went to American University for pre-med and really like it.

I am sorry I can't be of much help - I'm not an East Coast person I did jus want to throw one thing out there though, since Johns Hopkins was mentioned. I have a friend who's ds is a freshman at Johns Hopkins this year, and he's been really disappointed in his experience because of the *size* of the classes for freshmen. Most of his classes are huge - some are 200+ students. This freshman is also a kid who has an easy time meeting and making friends and he attended a family large high school... but he's still not enjoyed the size of the classes and feeling like he was just a dot in the crowd at Johns Hopkins. Please know I'm not knocking Johns Hopkins - it's a wonderful university, just wanted to point that out since the OP specifically stated her dd would possibly want to be in an environment with personal attention.

Best wishes for your move!

polarbear

I am not that surprised that is true of Johns Hopkins too bad the student didn't realized this when looking at schools. I was just throwing out the idea that the OP might a bit farther afield.

Universities are not alike and one should check for average class size when looking at a school not just the size of the school and amount you are paying. I have seen large state schools that are huge but have no classes larger than 40, and medium sized private schools where undergraduates attend large lectures particularly in the sciences. It really helps to visit a school but I doubt the OP is going to have much chance of that.

Thank you everyone.

We are compiling DDs school transcript etc and had email from AU with their requirements. They were pretty helpful actually and its relatively easy to find a place near that Uni. Georgetown appears harder to get to on public transport. Neither place is inexpensive but as an International student it's going to cost a lot wherever she goes. There is a small Uni in Virginia called Marymount which I know little about but looked at because it was small nd had a forensic psych course. It is within the zone where we can live.

Commuting isn't really an option. DH is restricted to where he has to live in terms of time/distance to work and DD will be 16 but isn't great with traveling alone especially in a foreign environment. Hopefully that will improve with experience but I am not counting on distance commutes being in her comfort zone.

I have been doing some research and the suggestions you have made Indigo and Bluemagic are most welcome. I have had a quick look.

Polarbear, when I was at Uni I had some lectures with 800+ people in the auditorium so 200 sounds cosy by comparison! DD is a different kettle of fish and smaller classes would be better at least for some of the time.

I would like to personally visit campuses with DD. It may be possible but not for some months, probably when DH moves over to the US.

I will schedule her SATs. This may be a dumb question but I am presuming Maths questions in the SAT uses imperial measures?

Criminal justice majors are grouped under "Security and Protective Services" (SPS) by the College Board https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/...nal-justice-corrections-criminal-justice . The SAT scores of SPS majors are abysmal according to the 2013 College-Bound Seniors Total Group Profile Report, with average SAT scores in the low to mid 400s in each of the three sections of the SAT. The average score for each section is about 500. I would be very reluctant to have a gifted student take college classes with low-SAT students.

SAT practice questions are found online at the college board website. These source documents can help answer your questions. The college board also offers a study guide book and an online course. Past year tests are also released for study purposes, are readily available, and are a widely used for test prep as the SAT is an achievement test.

Thanks Indigo. I will hunt down some past papers for DD so she knows what is coming.

Interesting perspective Bostonian. I am not sure what to think there. The admission scores to get into courses over here are often affected by course popularity even more than the intellectual demands of the course. Certainly demanding courses have high entry scores but they also tend to be the ones that are sought after eg law, medicine, engineering. Other courses can be highly popular and perhaps less intellectually demanding and still have high entry requirements because of limited places. There is often pressure on kids who get a high Uni entry score to "not waste it" and so they get pushed into med or law. I know students who wanted to do business or geology who ended up in med and hated it because that isn't what they wanted.

I suspect DD will do more than one degree in her life and she has the time to do that. Money may be another issue. She still isn't sure what she wants to do and has wide interests. I look on this an opportunity to experience life in another country and broaden her education. My key concerns will be happiness and safety if that makes sense. A good education is important of course but under the circumstances the other factors have an impact.

Since there are limited options in DC, is it worth considering a gap year (or 1.5 years due to her HS graduation date)? If she was a year older - say 17 - would it be okay for her to live at college?

I am just wondering since there are a lot more options if you expand the possibilities to schools within a three hour drive. That would include the Philadelphia area, which has many options. Then you have Baltimore between Philadelphia and DC, and there are some good schools in VA.

If money is a concern (and it is for most of us), then being old enough to go away to school would open up some merit aid options.

Also, I don't think AU meets full need (though they have gotten better about this in recent years). Also, you'll need to check with schools to see if they consider your DD an international or not. At the time of application, you will be living outside the US, but by the time she attends, you'll be in the US - you may need to discuss with the schools individually. Many schools do not meet full need for internationals, but will for those with parents living in the US.

About the SATs, please note that the format will change in Spring 2016. She should probably try the old format, and if she wants to, she can try the new format. Also, try the ACT. Schools in the US accept either one. Some schools also require SAT Subject Tests, so you'll need to check requirements for each school you are considering.

Be sure to investigate the search tools at College Board's website-- you can search using a pretty wide array of metrics, and you can also see what average SAT scores, ACT scores, GPA, etc. are at institutions.

Also be aware that many US campuses now have more or less rigid freshman residency requirements-- this is sort of a new thing, and it really complicates life with a young student-- but most will make an exception if the student is living off-campus with a parent.

We are considering an array of options NSG. I even discussed doing a year or two of high school in the US but DD wasn't keen and I understood that as she is working hard in her senior years. The idea of more HS wasn't appealing. I was thinking about options to meet people.

DD doesn't want to go away for college at the moment....she is 13 still and a homebody so the concept is not easy for her to swallow. Much may change in the next couple of years but hard to predict. I don't think too long of a gap year is a good plan for our DD. She will lose some of the momentum she has been building. Other thoughts we are considering is doing some online courses in the intervening period.

Thanks for the hints HK. We are still early in the process so I hadn't explored the College Board website in detail. I will certainly add that to my research tools. I did ask AU specifically about residentiL requirements and also age limits, we have to seek special permission at some Unis for underage kids. They were fine about both.

I think I can see some spreadsheet building in my near future.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I am sure you appreciate that it is a big deal for us. One we haven't yet fully absorbed. I was having enough fun working out where DD might go to Uni here. We had already started down that path. But life is full of interesting twists.

Instead of splitting up the family so she can finish up high school in Australia, how about checking out something like the PEG or the ECA program at Mary Baldwin college. http://www.mbc.edu/early_college/peg/
http://www.mbc.edu/early_college/eca/
I would not let a 13 yo "homebody" child decide now that she is not going to go away for college. Nor would I tell her that she has to, of course. But do not take it off the table immediately. Maryland and Virginia appear to have some very interesting options to explore (eg William and Mary) if she is willing to consider the 3 hour radius as PP suggested.

Thanks Tigerle. I have looked at Mary Baldwin, from a distance, a few times. I thought it would be a good option too. Lots of digging led to mixed reviews and it was hard to sort through them without actually visiting the place ourselves. I will add it to the list for when we get a chance to get to the U.S. It would appear to be a place that could suit our needs, although more of an arts bent than science which is DDs preference.

I agree that it is hard to make judgements about what might be achievable for DD in a year or so re going away to school. At the moment she is a little anxious about a weekend away for school. It would be ok but she is in a new year group not with the friends she knows. I keep the possibility in the back of my mind but it would have to be a specialized program like Mary Baldwin geared to younger students. Simon Rock was another consideration.

At the moment the first priority would seem to be looking at the SATs or ACT. I downloaded a practise test and there is also lots of material on Khan Academy as a quick first look. The Maths doesn't seem to be an issue and there were no questions needing Imperial conversion on the test I saw. The English is will need some practise. I can see DD getting a bit tangled with some of it, just because it is not the sort of test she is used to.

While she works on the test prep, we can also look at the options. There are a bunch of Universities I have never heard of I the DC, Maryland, Virginia area but there may be reasons I haven't heard of them so work to be done.

Have you seen the articles on the Davidson Database regarding early college?

There are also free downloadable guidebooks, including one on early college which comes in both a parent version and a student version.

I know your D also says she won't want to go to high school in the US, but if she's of a rather sciency bent, you might want to check out Thomas Jefferson high school in Northern virginia. Their science offerings are probably equal to or better than those of the less well known colleges in the area.
Again, don't table any options now, of course she is rather overwhelmed by the idea of a move across the globe.

Thanks Indigo. Yes I have seen the early college resources on Davidson and reviewed the options.

I did review Thomas Jefferson High Tigerle. They have very restrictive admission requirements as they are a selective high school. It is rare that a place in available for Juniors and I don't think they take seniors.

I have looked at a few different school options both public and private. The cost of private school is better put towards University. There is no easy way to compare what DD has done academically here and the high school graduation requirements in the US. I had a chat to a couple of schools and it is hard for them to compare. Not I possible but an additional pain. I have friends in the US who have told me they have had similar problems moving between states.

Hi ndw, I sent you a PM.

Thanks loubalou. PM sent back

HI, I went to Uni in the Dc area. I don't know where you will live but basically you can go to school in DC, VA or MD. In DC you have George Washington Univ, American and Georgetown (there are others but I personally don't like them that much). From the 3 above my favorite is Georgetown-- beautiful campus and well regarded. In VA you have Virginia Tech (far), George Mason. Again, personally I am not fond of Marymount but that maybe just a personal bias. In Maryland you have University of Maryland at College Park or University Maryland University College. Do not forget you also have the Community Colleges at both VA and MD they have lower fees and less presssure to perform. This may give your daugther something to do, and then she can transfer credits later to the institution that she really wants. Check Montgomery College. There is another in VA-- right now I forget the name.

community college in northern virginia is called NOVA, they are flexible on age, from what we have read.

George Mason University is well regarded, less expensive and has several campuses from close in to d.c. to further out in manassas, va. a lot of info online at the gmu site for international students: http://oips.gmu.edu/

Thanks for the local knowledge bina and a good idea about transferring community college credits. I was also looking at online courses to give her some options if she has to wait to enter Uni.

Thanks for the ideas and the link Chris. I am following all leads.

We re lucky that we have choice in where we live....to a degree. Not having to choose for a school district and then a Uni will make it easier.

Another thought: could she start an IB program in Australia now and finish it at a public high school, thus giving her a recognized qualification for application to regular four year colleges at the age of 17 or so? I know that one of the problems is the mismatching academic calendars, but you were planning to take a semester off for the move anyway, right?
Community college for two years and then transfer to a four year college at the age of 19 or so sounds like an interesting option, too - again a way to give her qualifications US colleges are familiar with. I'd worrying a bit about finding the right sort of challenge.

Thanks Tigerle. It's so lovely that you and others have been giving this some thought as it really helps when I feel a bit swamped by the options and logistics.

I actually looked at the option of starting the IB program now but there isn't a school near us with the program. I even considered sending DD to a boarding school or to live with relatives but DD wasn't keen. I also have a small concern with the IB that it is better for students who are good with humanities. That's just my reading of it from the research I have done. DD is currently stronger in science and Maths and finally has reached a point in school where she can play to those strengths. Because of a couple of challenges, a heavy reading/writing load wouldn't be great.

I was looking through bina and Chris's suggestions. University Maryland University College has online programs with three sessions so she might be able to do some online courses before starting at a bricks and mortar Uni in the Fall of 2017.

DD just went away on a retreat with her year 11 classmates for three days. She was anxious about it but it went well and she feels happy about the year. Apart from being exhausted due to lack of sleep she is very positive about her schooling currently. I am reluctant to disturb that with yet another move before graduation so I think I will leave her where she is unless it goes pear shaped.

I have started my spreadsheet with all options. It is growing daily.

A couple of comments on this idea:

My experience via my eldest and online courses can be summed up as caveat emptor. Be very careful. They tend to rely on multiple choice tests with questions about factoids. The questions can be badly written or deliberately written in a way that makes the question difficult to interpret. Instructor time can be minimal or non-existent. This problem is just as bad in the sciences and maths as in the humanities.

In addition, US colleges and universities have two basic routes for admission: as a first-year student ("freshman") or as a transfer student ("sophomore" or second year or higher). It's much easier (possibly much, much easier depending on the institution) to gain admission as a first-year student.

This is important: if a student takes college-level courses AFTER getting a high school diploma or its equivalent, she will most likely have to apply as a transfer student. I strongly suggest that you or your daughter check the policies at the colleges/unis you're checking before enrolling in an online course.

Other points:

US universities tend to distinguish between applicants aged 17+ and 16-. They see 17-year-olds as being basically adults like 18-year-olds. This is not the case for the 16-crowd, who are basically children in the eyes of the university. You have to fill out special forms giving your child permission to go to the university, and if you don't get all the forms filled out, the student's file won't be complete and the admissions people won't consider it. This requirement may not necessarily be spelled out up front. We have other members here who know more about this topic than I do.

You may also wish to read about problematic trends at US colleges and universities. This article in the New York Times is an excellent description of the problem.

Be aware also that many professors use online homework systems (don't know how popular these are in Australia). They can be frustrating in the extreme, because you have to format your answer in a way that the software likes (and the software isn't always clear about its expectations). Online homework systems can also mean that a human will never look at the student's work and comment on it. I now tell my son to avoid these systems whenever possible, and he agrees completely. This means checking up each course before signing up for it.

How long will you be in the United States? If you'll be here for <5 years, will you have transfer options back into the Australian education system?

Finally, how much of this legwork is your daughter doing? My son is 14 and in 11th grade and is doing 90%+ of this work himself. IMO, this is really something the student should be doing. We talk to him, but he goes to the college fairs himself, and he explores colleges online himself.

We are many years from college decisions so I have little to add. But here is one important point re larger schools: to avoid huge freshman/sophomore classes, look for schools that have honors and "majors only" classes. We visited a large public university's open house this weekend (my alma mater) and I was reminded that my freshman classes were all very small because I took only honors and (chemistry) majors-only classes. They still have this school-within-a-school option and it provides an awesome best of both worlds experience.

I've heard good things about George Washington University lately, but not enough to be able to tell you anything besides it might be worth looking into. I think it may be a pretty large public university so it might not be a good fit.

George Mason University is a well-regarded university in many fields of study.

It is a private university.

Thanks Val. All good points. My DD has been doing the legwork on local options but since this possibility was raised I am doing the prelim research. As we have discovered there are complex issues involved beyond choosing a course and a school and I need to know what those issues are. Once I have a handle on the options then DD will know what to look for. There are also issues that impact on the whole family such as cost and living zones which are factored in to everything. I have a little more time and access to resources such as this board so I am happy to get the early work done. I know she is quite capable of doing the research as she expressed interest in MIT last year and knew all about what was required.

It is interesting suevv that some Australian Unis are adopting the Honours college concept. I have looked at which Unis might offer such programs and the entry requirements.

This is an important point to take into consideration.

If you were coming to CA, I would highly recommend community college as a good option for your daughter. Our community colleges have honors programs and straight forward transfer program to the University of California schools. They are a great alternative to a 4 year school, one of the downsides is that to transfer to UC or Cal State schools you must transfer as a junior. There are pro's & con's of these schools but at least my local Community Colleges have excellent teachers and good reputations. But I don't know much about the D.C. community college, or VA community college system so I wouldn't want to recommend it. Quality of community colleges do vary and I don't know if these schools have transfer agreements with any schools.

If I were in your shoes I'd first start by trying to see if your DD qualifies and can get admission to the D.C. research universities for the fall after your arrival.

If a large public university has thousands of students who need to take (for example) calculus for their major, how should it avoid having large calculus classes? Having multiple professors teach the same class simultaneously seems inefficient and could lead to inconsistencies in grading and material covered. As long as sections are small enough, meet for enough hours, and are lead by good teaching assistants, I don't think big classes per se are a problem.

Hey Bostonian,

Good points, but I can only respond re how it works at my alma mater. There may be thousands of students needing calculus, but there were not thousands of math majors. So the "math-majors-only" calculus class was smaller and deeper/broader in its coverage. Same for my freshman chemistry-majors-only class.

Also - as a chem major admitted to the honors program, I took "honors calculus." So even though I wasn't in the math-majors-only calculus, my calculus class was also smaller, with a deeper/broader level of challenge and fewer of the icky things that come with the huge intro classes (e.g., no multiple choice tests).

Frankly, we got the best teachers in the various departments for both majors-only and honors classes. And we had more of a personal, interactive relationship with our professors than could be expected in the huge auditorium-style classes.

Hope that clarifies,
Sue

Thanks Bluemagic. The transfer point also affects Unis here. I will certainly keep that in mind. The only Uni I have contacted directly is American. I know their admit requirements and they will take her regardless of age. We won't have academic results until end of 2016 and I don't know how our school results are viewed by different American Unis. Some require that they be sent to independent evaluator's and some just want to see them directly. So working out if she qualifies on that point is a whole other issue.

Here we have a centralized system. For many students results and preferences go in and the offer pops out. There are other avenues that didn't exiat in my time starting to make it more complicated.

Gosh, this is really a complex decision (that's probably the reason we're all getting into it!).
I do not think that a thirteen year old should have to shoulder all the responsibility - after all it involves a move across the globe, into a very unfamiliar environment.
I would approach the process two ways: going forward and going backward.

Going forward, you have decided it is best for her to finish school in Oz for Christmas 2016 when she'll be 15 (right?).
Then move across the ocean to the US, spend spring semester traveling with you and settling in. (European background coloured question: what about truancy laws? Would she need to be registered as a homeschooler., and what are the requirements?)
Start in a college setting in fall 2017, when she'll be 16, commuting from home. American University is her safety for that, you will check out other unis in DC, MD, NoVa, possibly community colleges as well - which leads us right to checking things out backwards.

Going backwards, you might want to be looking at four-year-university entrance for fall 2018, at the age of 17, either as a freshman or as a transfer. Which place would be ideal? Virginia appears to have great affordable public options: UVA, Virginia Tech, William and Mary (Maryland, not so much, DC nothing).
Check out this list of colleges with the happiest students for the last five years...both Virginia tech and William and Mary come up a few times.
http://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2014/08/12/universities-with-the-happiest-students/
If you feel she should still be close to home and cost is a factor, you should check out residency requirements for instate tuition at Virginia publics.
Then, academic requirements, both for freshmen and transfer students, and how best to fulfil these in the time you have: IB or AP classes at a public high school, entering as a junior, or community college. And then plan your move accordingly.
If she entered high school as a junior, maybe she could just pick classes she loves and/or fulfil requirements, to prepare for SATs and subject tests so she has a chance at scholarships for four year options, and maybe she would not be going crazy with repetition.
Truly complex...

Thanks Tigerle. Yep kind of complicated for sure. Don't worry, too much for me let alone DD. There is the visa stuff and bank statements etc for starters! We discuss it all because she does have to ultimately choose a Uni and course. If she had the time I am sure she would be right onto it though, Internet research is definitely one of her strengths. Her next step would be producing a PowerPoint presentation on the options.....its how she organised and sold us on a trip to Disneyworld a few years ago!

At this stage DD is pretty confident that she wants to finish secondary school here Christmas 2016. Exactly right. I have actually looked at the various regs on school requirements in DC, Maryland etc because in Australia she has to be in full time work or study until 17. Given she will be finished school at home and potentially "awaiting the start of Australian University" or awaiting Fall admission to a US Uni, I am not too worried about that at the moment.

I have plugged Community Colleges into the spreadsheet noting transfer requirements.

Oh and we started prepping for the SATs. I ordered a couple of prep books and downloaded practise tests so we can get a handle on the format and the vocab expectations. I will worry about subject tests as needed and after we see how the basic SAT goes.

I have plugged some high schools into the spreadsheets as options to do as you suggested Tigerle.

Also looking at summer programs for high school students as a way of tasting some different schooling options. She has done some of those here and they are helpful.

Here is a cautionary note on community colleges.

Community colleges in the U.S. typically have open admissions, and part of their mission is to provide a low-cost path to higher education for nontraditional students, including adults returning to school. We moved to a suburb with "good schools" so our children will have high-performing peers. Very few children from our high school will start at a community college, and none of the best students will. I'd be very wary of putting a gifted child in a community college, because that's not where the smartest people are. Even repeating high school in a "good school" would provide more appropriate peers.

I have little direct knowledge of community colleges. Stories like Community College Students Face a Very Long Road to Graduation make me wary. I know there are lots of smart kids at Harvard and MIT, and that with elite colleges admissions so difficult and the costs so high, that the state flagship for us, U Mass Amherst, also has some very smart kids. How many community colleges have a critical mass of those kinds of kids, and how do you find them?

Based upon other posts you've made, it is possible that this decision is largely based upon financial ability to pay higher tuition at other institutions?

I'm aware of students who specifically applied to, and were accepted by, highly selective colleges; Received generous merit scholarships*; Were awarded financial aid to meet "100% need" but much of this was in student loans therefore not feasible to their families. These students anticipated the impact of the cost factor and started their post-secondary education at community colleges, earned two-year degrees, then transferred credits to complete their studies. To their credit, their degrees were earned in a fiscally responsible manner. Bottom line, these students all said they knew early on that community college was likely in their future but applied to highly selective schools to verify they would receive acceptance letters.

I second bluemagic's post.

Using ACT/SAT score as a proxy for intelligence in college admissions, not all programs at community colleges are attracting equivalent students.

Some may say there's more to be considered. Some gifted students with strong internal drive and motivation may enjoy the camaraderie of older, more serious students who may have gained wisdom in other fields/disciplines and are back-to-school studying something new. Some have noted a different level of conversation, including interest in world news and topics beyond those which most high school aged students are known to find fascinating (topics often centered on self, social media, and entertainment). Additionally, community colleges tend to be commuter colleges and do not tend to be known for typical dorm-life or greek-house lifestyle such as underage drinking and sexual behavior.

In general, these kids are found one at a time. Many "good" high schools also do not have this critical mass of kids, as they are statistically rare in the population.

While it may be true that elite colleges may have these kids in greater concentration, they may also have a greater concentration of kids who openly state they are interested in the campus lifestyle and not very interested in their classes or grades because they will never have to work at a job due to family wealth. Acknowledging they may not be mutually exclusive, possibly the former students are more related to your mention of "admissions so difficult" and the latter may be related to your mention of "costs so high".

Students may self-select community colleges, in some cases, based upon financial feasibility rather than lack of personal intellect or lack of acceptance letters to highly selective institutions. Avoiding community colleges may be more closely related to "fit" based upon beliefs about SES, rather than based upon intellect of the student body.

High work ethic and engaged life-long learners may exist in every type of institution. Campus visits may help get a feel for the student body.


* While highly selective colleges/universities do not offer merit scholarships, students may receive outside scholarships, not awarded by those institutions.

Found this, on the Virginia community colleges website:
For the 2014-15 academic year, in-state tuition and mandatory fees for our colleges will be approximately $4080 for two semesters of full-time study (15 credit hours per semester), or about 37 percent of the average in-state tuition and fees at Virginia’s public universities (projected at $11,025).

Not that the tuition at the universities is that much cheaper, but still a steal compared to others I read about. It is not a huge difference, so I imagine very few well-qualified kids would go to community college first simply to save money, but rather hope for generous financial aid from a four year college more suited to their needs.

Your point is well taken.

That being said, this appears to be a different situation than the scenarios of choosing community colleges despite acceptance letters from highly-selective colleges/universities, as mentioned up-thread, and represents a much smaller difference in costs.

Are the Virginia public universities you mentioned at $11K/year highly selective? Even so, some may respect that $7K/year tuition difference may not be a negligible sum for all families.

While the OP prefers a commuter experience, in general a comparison of tuition only may be a bit of an apples-and-oranges situation: If the community college is a commuter college and if attending the public university would require room and board, the $7K/year tuition difference would not appear to take into account the true cost differences of attending depending upon the proximity of one's residence in relation to the campus.

Even financial aid which meets "100% need" may include student loans. Typically student loan interest increases the cost of attendance in a manner which is not negligible.

I believe the OP stated needs such as smaller class size (personal attention due to being introverted), commuting via public transit, safety (due to young age).

That is why I explicitly stated that I would consider this in CA but not necessarily anywhere else. I know many bright students who go to Community College in CA. I personally know students that have gone on to UC Berkley, and graduate school who took their first two years at community college. This is because it is a planned path to the University of California (research level) system schools. Our community colleges have gifted classes and dedicated classes for those going that route. But not all community college systems (state systems vary) work along the same lines. I do NOT know what the community colleges in D.C., Virgina, or Maryland are like but it's worth finding out more information about them.

Someone else posted about truancy laws. In CA once a child graduates from H.S. you are exempt from truancy laws. I found a document stating in D.C. "Students must attend school daily until they meet high school graduation requirements or reach their 18th birthday." http://goo.gl/ysd3Pw

I'm going to respectfully disagree here. Choosing a college is often the first big adult-like decision that a person makes. While I believe that parental input is very important, I also believe that too much involvement on the parent's part isn't a good thing. Respectfully again, what's written here seems to say that one parent is doing almost all of the college-identifying work, which doesn't sound ideal to me. Ndw said that her daughter is 14, which is well old enough to be looking at colleges and learning about the different types of schools and what each offers. Obviously, she should discuss this stuff with adults (including parents, adults at schools, local alumni, and counselor-types).

I understand that parents get used to making big decisions for their kids, and I know that it can be hard to let go of the reins. But there comes a point where a person has to learn how to make independent decisions in an educated way, and IMO, the best way to teach that skill is to let it start developing when the child still has a safety net.

With my eldest (who I noted is also 14), we give him input on what a college education will mean to him, on the different environments at different colleges (e.g. large public vs. small liberal arts), and try to help him make an informed decision. But he has to do a lot of the legwork himself, because learning how to do the background research by yourself is an important part of learning how to make an informed decision by yourself.

I'd agree with you if this were a kid in high school headed for university in her own country. But she's not - she'll be moving to a country with a completely different system. She has little or no access to adults IRL who know anything about the US system, definitely none who has the least knowledge about transfer requirements from northern virginia community colleges to Virginia universities, nor has she access to print material, info sessions, older peers or siblings with information or experiences she could draw on. Radically accelerated gifted 15 year old starting college are rare enough, radically accelerated gifted 15 year olds with a high school degree from Australia making a move to the US must be pretty unique.
The OPs D is 13 now, turning 14, and the first decision to be taken next year at the age of 14, will be whether to finish high school in Australia or transfer into high school in the US (and that is a choice she has made for herself already). So many ramifications down the road, it's not a process for which I'd put a 13 yo in the driver's seat - for now. (How on earth would she be know to take into account that transferring from a community college makes a difference in whether she is eligible for financial aid, coming for a system that has, IIRC, a graduate tax?).

After a feasible path has been carved out, whether to do some more high school, do a residential early college program, do some community college, then transfer, commute to a four year university, live on campus at a four year university - then she can research options and make choices on the level "large public versus small liberal arts". The OPs D isn't there yet.

Well, it looks like at least for Virginia, the community college - four year college guaranteed transfer route is well established.
http://www.vccs.edu/students/transfers/
https://www.vawizard.org/vccs/Transfer.action

Honestly, then I'd say that if she's too young to be even taking the lead in looking at colleges, she's too young to be thinking about college. I say this not to be mean, but to try to help someone avoid what could be a very difficult situation.

This is a general point: colleges expect students to be able to handle their own problems and challenges. Very young students may have the intellectual capacity to handle college chemistry or college calculus, but they often lack executive function skills that they need to be able to succeed. Many colleges in the US won't accept late homework. So if you forgot or blew it off, it's TOO BAD, and you get a 0. If you missed taking the online quiz before the deadline, it's TOO BAD, and you get a 0.

This is a difficult problem with HG+ kids. I know because I have a 14-year-old who's in a dual enrollment program at a community college. In spite of help from the high school side, the executive function demands are very high. The online problem sets have to be done at 7. If they aren't, he's out of luck. Ditto for the quizzes and other stuff.

Add to this that the colleges do NOT want mom and pop to get involved, and you get a situation that can set up a young student for some hard times. These kids are at an age when they're MOST LIKELY to blow off work because they'd rather muck around on social media or play games or do anything that isn't a problem set. Yet putting them in college raises the stakes to a point where blowing stuff off can be more serious than blowing stuff off in high school. As in: goodbye scholarship, goodbye top-tier grad school, hello student loan debt.

IMO, radical acceleration is a very, very dangerous game. Some people can sail through college in their teens without problems, but I suspect that they're a minority. A single class is one thing, but a full schedule can be demanding in the extreme, and I don't mean just intellectually. Personally, if my kid couldn't even handle doing some Google searches or reading up on the basics on one of the numerous websites that have this kind of information, I wouldn't even consider throwing him into a full-time college program.

Glad to see you are getting lots of input here! Our DD16 is a senior in high school and we are in the midst of college acceptance/rejection right now. Glancing at the thread so far, I'd like to add the following informational nuggets based on our experience thus far:
1) Most unis have application deadlines prior to December/January for the following fall (Deadline December 2014 for August 2015 start) and acceptances come out anywhere from December to April.
2) Many unis look only/mostly at grades earned in years 9-11 (though they may rescind offers if there is a senior slump)
3) Highly selective unis generally do not actually take many transfer students. There are exceptions as noted in other posts, where state schools will allow transfers from their community colleges, but this appears to be school and state specific.
4) Harvard has spectacular financial aid (10% of parents total income is total expected contribution for families making less than $150,000)(yes, really) Other "ivies" have generous aid as well making them more affordable than many state schools for foreign or out of state students.
5) Many high schools have enrollment options in local universities and this enrollment can be manipulated such that your child does not apply as a transfer student to the next uni

6) Academic levels are not all there is to success at university.
7) Every child is, IMO, different. Therefore the amount of help they need, or will accept, is different.
8) Selecting and applying to many unis (more than 10) seems to help the DC learn how to research and select the uni.


If your DC wants to persue a STEM field, they may want to go to graduate school. Graduate school admissions has become extremely competitive in the last few years and going to a "name" undergraduate institution, having extensive research experience as an undergraduate, top notch grades, and stellar (in field) letters of recommendation, are all key parts of the application. Medical, dental, veterinary, and other professional degrees remain highly competitive with their own expectations of applicants for classes taken, grades, experiences, research, and letters of recommendation. Prior to freshman year, careful planning should take place to ensure that all the requirements for several target graduate programs will be met by junior year.

Unlike K-12, where we had a least bad approach, for university and beyond we are trying to instill in our DC a "best options" approach. Each choice should enhance the potential success of the long term goal that DD has for her life's work and personal happiness while giving her additional options if things change. As an example, she has, with our help, chosen not to apply to universities that severely restrict the students admitted to her most likely major. (At some schools, you can be admitted to the school, but not to X major. They may admit 600 potential X major students, but only allow 100 to actually declare the major.) She has still applied to highly selective schools, just ones with larger numbers allowed to continue on in her major.

As usual, Val, a pithy post with sobering points to ponder.

General maturity (i was that class clown) and EF are things that I struggled with as a child to be honest and as my DD is a mini-me, your points have struck a chord.

My DD is only skipped one grade but is probably 4 years ahead with Maths aleady and is fully capable of comprehending higher level humanities but one of the main reasons that we currently do not want to skip another grade is that her EF development is lagging her rate of cognitive growth.

Not to jack the original post and take it on a tangent but did want to say that I think that you have hit the nail on the head with your post above.

Thanks for the input Val, I hear your fears.

DD has fine EF skills which have only improved with each grade skip fortunately. I know you don't know her and obviously have your own concerns re acceleration and your children. DD is showing every sign of being able to function at the appropriate level. She runs her own show where school is concerned without reminder from me and they have some tight deadlines so all good experience for the next step.

She will do her own research and make the final decision. As I said to Tigerle, DD is perfectly capable of Google searching and also presenting a solid argument as to why she has made a decision. Howwver, We as a family are only a few weeks from a sudden major change to all our life plans which have coincided with a return to school which leaves her with little time. I personally want to understand the situation which is far more complex than just applying to Uni here or there. If it was a straightforward matter of researching schools and doing the applications she would be fine for sure. She has done that already for local Unis and has been actively looking for over a year.

I am appreciative of every one's information and concern. Don't forget DD is regarded as an International student for the purposes of this thread. It does alter some of the requirements and the costs and scholarship opportunities. Despite where we live we won't be able to access resident fees. It also changes the deadlines in many cases so they can be earlier. Some Unis also require documentation sent straight from school or the state education board, neither of which does such a thing routinely.

The school has no familiarity with what the requirements are for a transcript as such things are not given here. We just get annual reports and they are not collated into one document at the end of school. Our high school is 6 years not 4 and upon speaking to American University they want all 6. That is an advantage as languages for example were done in the first 4 years. Also science is lab based from year 7 and doing lab based science can be important.

As Tigerle said, my DD does not have access to anything but the Internet for this process. In Australia I have loads of intrinsic knowledge about the search process for a Uni and experience of attending or working at four of the major ones. I am sure Val and many others have a similar intrinsic knowledge of the process and the options in the US so if your child mentions where they are thinking of going you understand what that means and the implications of their decision or you know where to get that info. I don't or didn't. Thanks to lots of looking and the help from people here I have a better idea of what it will mean or where she is talking about when my DD comes to me with her decisions.

It's not that she can't do it Val. Not at all. But I can't do my bit as a supportive parent if I have no idea what she is talking about when she says she has chosen X pathway, and she will.

brilliantcp your info is invaluable. A big difference between here and the U.S. is that on entering Uni here you enter your major. The restriction on numbers for each course is right at the entrance to Uni. I didn't even think about restrictions on being able to select a major as that is not on our radar. Again intrinsic knowledge that is not immediately obvious to us.

Val.. Yes I think you have some valid points.

But first most of us are giving advice here assuming that OP's child is participating in the college selection process. Many parents ask advice and make suggestions to about good fit schools for unusual students. I expect that decisions aren't going to be make by this thread but that we are giving the OP suggestions of where to look and what to look out for in a very complex and far from opaque college admissions system. In addition I believe the decision has already been made that they are looking for somewhere she can LIVE AT HOME. Therefore making it easier for mom and/or dad to support her were needed.

Needing help in researching/selecting a college does not equal unable to perform in college. My DD20 needed a lot of help in selecting colleges/universities. She was on the young side (still 17 when she started) and has LD's. Yes it was her decision in the end of the day where to go, but I was the one who "found" online the school she is now at at and suggested we go for visit. It's on the opposite coast and I insisted she fly out for a visit (her second) ON HER OWN before I would agree to her choice. She is now in the second semester of her Junior year and she has been very happy with the school she chose. We spend a lot of time looking at schools her senior year and I'm glad we did. (Yes I did help a lot but mostly on helping her her research and to travel with her to visit schools.) But she has always been very good at going to class, doing her homework, and passing classes. Her study skills are very good, and she chose a college that 'fit' her needs. She still needs to learn a few things, but I don't believe it would have been helpful to keep her at home until she could navigate the U.S. college system on her own.

Many teens are overwhelmed with the college process in this country and many parents pay big $$$ for private college counselors. Just because you can use some advice/help on one aspect of college doesn't mean you need help taking classes. I've known teens who were very capable of getting straight A's on the hardest classes, but who were totally overwhelmed by the college selection process they didn't even try.

I applaud you for letting your son do as much of this work as possible on his own. But that doesn't mean it's the right situation for everyone or that it's wrong for parents to help at this stage.

Having a young-for-college student living WITH parents is a very different ballgame than having one who is living away from home, too.

That makes it easier in some ways-- but it also can make it harder to resist the temptation to over-manage.

You have to be willing to let them make some pretty big mistakes-- and then prod them to fix it FOR THEMSELVES, even if they wish that you'd step in.

That can be a hard thing, as a parent. If it were her high school, I'd be on the phone. I'm still on the phone-- but it is with my daughter, to get information from her on the results of meetings intended to solve problems.

Big difference. She has the maturity to do this for herself-- (PG social skills) but not all kids do. She also lacks some of the executive skills to keep everything under control all the time without some weekly scaffolding. We do that, because that was part of the plan all along-- as noted, it sounds as though ndw's plan is similar.

Do be aware that community college systems can be incredibly overburdened in some state systems-- and that required prerequisiste coursework may be very difficult to get into in such systems. This is a huge problem throughout all of higher ed now, by the way, but it is most extreme in the junior/community colleges. There, a student might have to wait a semester, or even a full year, to get into a calculus course.

I think that how much of the decision-making and research to allow (insist upon?) from a hg+ early college entrant depends a lot on the student, but Val's points are very well made, IME.

If your child's college isn't "her/his" idea, how well is that going to go over? With my DD, the answer is "it wouldn't."

Which is why she didn't apply to some of the top tier schools that we'd encouraged her to consider as good matches. At least we knew enough not to push it, with her. {sigh}

To pick up on one of HK's points in an indirect way, many universities here are applied to using the "common app" .
https://www.commonapp.org
Since the universities expect the students to be solely responsible for all aspects of the applications, the email the student lists there is the ONLY email that many of the universities will send things to. In our experience, only financial info came to the email address listed for parents. I'd recommend using a shared email as the main email if you are going to be actively involved in the process.

So far, most unis send both a snail mail and an email for acceptances. For financial aid we've been getting mostly snail mail.

Just so it has been said: Medical School and other professional schools are generally applied to after 3-4 years of undergraduate studies. There are some "direct admission" programs for medical school that are usually called BS/MD programs that are applied to while in high school.

Wacky fact: Repeating courses at university for a better grade may or may not be a good option at your university. Each university sets their own policy. Some completely erase the first grade, some show both grades, some let you take it up to 5 times, it all varies.

Wacky fact #2: At many universities the student is the one that keeps track of whether they are on course to graduate. The advisor may or may not be involved, let alone interested.

Wacky fact #3: At the top tier research university where I am now, undergraduates frequently have to wait until senior year to take genetics due to lack of class space. It is my understanding that this problem is common for many departments and classes at many unis as well as community colleges. This is why students with AP credit (and thus higher class standing) have an advantage.

I am now compelled to share:
Wacky fact #4: Registration for classes is frequently, but not always, by class. Seniors first, then Juniors, then Sophmores and so on. If your DC have tons of AP or IB credits they may be able to register for their first year classes with the Juniors.

Thanks everyone. It certainly is a very individual process because all kids are different and have different skill sets. Like HK and her daughter, there is no way we could just choose a school for DD. She will definitely choose as she knows her own mind. Like us though, she needs a starting point and a frame of reference. It is an entirely different education system.

It is hard to step back but we have been doing that in different ways for a while as it is necessary for any child to develop their own coping skills, how to make mistakes and how to fix them. Sure we step in where needed to facilitate something high level but DD is very good at contacting teachers and the Head of Academic if there is a problem. In the holidays she changed one of her course options for this year by email chatting with the Head of Academic and I only knew about it after the fact.

The decision here will impact on the whole family and there is hours of work just to get the whole education system in perspective, from high school through community colleges to Unis. I could not do it without all the opinions and DD has no one currently to help but us. The counsellor at school doesn't know the system. She has no friends undertaking the process to bounce ideas off.

I have found with all her classmates investigating Uni here they garner a lot of info from each other about what they have found. There is a lot of discussion about various Unis and the marks and subjects required to get into different courses. There is very much a mindset of exploration in the year 11 class not present in the year she left. It's nice to see. If DD were at school in the US I am sure something similar would be happening and she would be absorbing knowledge from many sources. Same with sitting the SATs. She doesn't know anyone who has done them so has no idea what to expect from a BTDT perspective.

I totally understand the concerns Val has raised. There is no doubt that coping with acceleration is not just about academic capability and neither is going to Uni. We are lucky with our DD that she is a motivated and capable young lady. We will support her in her choices and part of that is making sure we understand what we can about what her choices are.

Thank you Bluemagic. Sounds like you have an impressive daughter. I hope she is having a great time at school. I went to Uni at 17 and while it was away from home, it wasn't on the other side of the country. Well done.i have not heard of paying to help kids with the College process. I can now understand why you might want to do that! LOL.

I am always interested in what you have to say HK. You have been navigating a difficult road and have excellent BTDT advice. Thank you for the advice about Community Colleges.

I think heading to Uni is a big step in life whether your child is 14 or 18, gifted or not. There has been great advice here for everyone.

brilliantcp has so many useful tidbits! It's the sort of stuff you just wouldn't find easily on an Internet search. Love it

Love brilliantcp tips as well.

Building on Wacking #4. Some schools if you are in their honors programs get priority registration, either before all students or just earlier than those of their 'year'.

ndw Thanks for the compliment about my DD. Although I may have misled you DD didn't got to university a whole year early she was just young for her grade and our state had a late cutoff when she entered school. She turned 18 about a month after starting university. Like a lot of kids with LD's she has things she does well and one of them is she confident and comfortable to attend school on the opposite side of the country.

One of the reasons for the private college admissions counselors is that the public school systems are horribly underfunded in this country. In my school district have more counselors than many districts but it's still much lower than we need and these counselors have very little time to help students with this process. (1 per ~500 students) Many parents have no time or patience to help their teen. The system has gotten more competitive and convoluted. Thus an industry was born to help separate parents from more of their money in the quest of the illusive college acceptance.

Not misled at all Bluemagic. Still impressive and just nice to hear a positive story especially as your daughter has LDs.

I am glad we are looking at the options now as there is a lot to take in. My DD has over twenty assessment tasks that go to her final marks in two years time to complete in the next three terms, in addition to homework and exams. I am not going to overload her.

When she has a spare second we will go out to lunch and have a prelim chat about where she might start on investigating what she wants to do in earnest. It is wonderful that she has options.

ndw, I was a foreign student coming from a secondary education system very similar the one you have in Australia.

I was on a scholarship for 3.5 years. I only paid full tuition during the first semester then I qualified for free tuition. So not all scholarship opportunities are closed to international students.

I think some places like MIT also offer generous financial package to foreign students.

I've been pretty much on my own since I was 15. I managed all of my finances, made all major educational decisions, and I did have the EF needed to study 4+ hours every day since I was 16. I have ADHD (confirmed) and most likely developmental coordination disorder. At the end of the day, I came out okay so I'm sure your DD would manage everything just fine, especially with your support.

The biggest difference for me when applying to US college was that I had to "market" myself as a student/applicant. That was rather a strange concept for me and still is.

On a side note, I do know a student who currently attends Georgetown. I'm not so sure if she loved every minute of her college life and it seems that she was rather unchallenged but the opportunities she had for networking socially and professionally were pretty amazing.

Thanks for sharing your story Mana. Another really positive and encouraging outcome. You have obviously done amazing things at a young age. Both ADHD and DCD are big challenges and more so managing on your own. I am sure a lot of people with children facing challenges will be encouraged to hear of your success as I am.

Yes, there are definitely scholarship opportunities for International students. They aren't always the same as those for domestic students and they range widely between Unis. MIT does offer good packages. They are highly sought after from what we read when DD was looking into it a while ago. I would love for her to go there!

I know exactly what you mean when you talk about marketing yourself. It's not something we generally have to do for Uni. I think that is an area we will struggle with. I have looked for some resources on writing college essays and applications for that reason. It concerns me as DD does not have a strong resume as it were. She can not do sports for physical reasons. She has represented the school in other ways but there haven't been that many opportunities.

Thank you for the info about Georgetown. Uni does present a range of opportunities for sure beyond just the academics.

The children parents are asking about on this forum are bright, but most are not cynical, I hope. American universities are tricky, in at least the following ways:

(1) They encourage applications even from people they will almost certainly reject, in order to boost their "selectivity".
(2) Some give "scholarships" to almost all applicants instead of just reducing the list price.
(3) They lump grants and loans together as "financial aid".
(4) They say that applying Early Decision does not confer an advantage, when I think it does, based on some published research.
(5) They are coy about the various preferences they give.

I want my children in high school to focus on academics and extracurriculars that interest them. College admissions strategizing will be a joint effort between them and me.

While researching I came across this. Thought it might be an interesting read.

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...rn-higher-education-would-be-much-better

What especially stood out to you in the article? For me it was:
The examples supporting do not happen to mention that students can check the Occupational Outlook Handbook ( OOH ) of the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, as part of their college and career planning. This can be an important and valuable resource.

Yes, definitely the rise in costs above inflation stood out. That is happening here too especially as the government pushes for University deregulation.

Not all degrees are equal wasn't always the case here. When I went to Uni there was no real difference in where you obtained your degree. Australia had a very limited number of Universities then and the education was fairly well equal apart from "tonal" differences. We have a much greater number now, piddling compared to the U.S. though, but there are qualitative differences appearing.

Thanks for the reference to OOH.

Some might say that in a growing economy, with a variety of jobs available, and a variety of skills needed, that where one obtains one's degree may be of little consequence. Currently, the number of jobs available worldwide seems to be decreasing as computerization replaces human effort. Therefore employers may be highly selective and may choose to weigh additional factors, such as which colleges/universities a prospective employee attended.

When there are more job openings than there are people to fill them, it is an employee's market. When there are fewer job openings than there are people to fill them, it is an employer's market; There is increased competition among prospective employees, including the attainment of one's education.

In the U.S. there is a process of "accreditation". Each institution can have its own mission statement and vision, a diversity which adds balance to society and provides a choice to consumers in a free market. That being said, one of criteria for accreditation is "student outcomes."

As mentioned on a recent thread, accreditation of post-secondary institutions is being discussed until Feb 28, 2015, as is the NACIQI's desire to control that process.
While "self-regulation" is touted, some may say withholding an institution's Title IV funding may be coercion to "compliance" with changes in accreditation criteria. Much of the accreditation discussion seems to revolve around "student outcomes" which could be interpreted as employment in one's chosen field. In the current economy which is an employer's market, this could create a slippery slope to closing colleges/universities by means of an organized implementation of hiring practices from preferred institutions.