So I do not know how I am going to survive - DYS DD9 is acting like she has acquired the attitude of a teenager, but in a tiny 9-year-old little body (did she just roll her eyes at me??? What did she just mutter under her breath???). Help! Does this mean that we might be DONE with the teen attitude early (please say yes)??? I hope so, or I might wind up on a funny farm. She's always been super-intense, and never very easy to parent, but I truly might not survive this!

I am seeing a great deal of frustration, and I am wondering if some of it might be school-related. We've been working with her school, but we've not been able to actually make much progress changing things for her so far.

Just to be clear - I am not EXCUSING one bit of her behavior.

If anyone has been through something similar, I am all ears. TIA!

Re is it school-related - it *might* be peer-related. My now-10 year old dd is going through some of the same attitude (more so than my older kids who have age-legitimate reasons to develop teen attitude lol!).. and it started around 9 and it was something that seemed to sweep through her school peers.

Sorry I don't have any advice really, and I don't know if it means it will be over "early" - but I'm hoping so!

polarbear

For some girls, hormones may start to be a factor at this age. This may be easier said than done, but since we are role models for our kids you may wish to be sure you do not react, but rather respond and coach.

For example, "It's good that you're exercising independent thinking. You seem to be disagreeing with something I said? Rolling your eyes (or muttering) does not express yourself well. Please take a moment to put your thoughts into words." You can help her get to the bottom of it, possibly asking gently probing questions. Thinking things through, being mindful, and taking time to reflect can help a kiddo determine the reason(s) behind her feelings, the relative range from temporary to permanent of her feelings, and the size of various feelings in perspective. Sometimes it may resemble a game of 20 questions, but it can worth it to teach a child to stay in the conversation until something is adequately expressed/understood/resolved.

Yes, if she learns she can talk to you about anything (including disagreements with you), in a respectful manner, then she may outgrow any usefulness for attitude. LOL, there is something humorous about coaching a child to present his/her best case against something you've said as his/her parent.

You may wish to tell her that these will be essential life skills for negotiating healthy relationships, establishing boundaries, and also good practice for eventual self-advocacy.

You may also wish to read up on girl drama in books such as Queen Bees and Wannabees and Odd Girl Out, and ask her whether she sees these things going on.

I have noticed the same types of behaviors in girls younger than 9 too. I think that sassiness is more common at younger ages now.

People of all ages are sometimes moody, and it may be that at certain ages people are especially moody. Almost by definition, someone's moodiness does not have a completely rational explanation, so I wonder if trying to understand the causes of it are fruitful. Moods cannot be controlled, but outward behavior usually can be, so I think the focus should be on reminding the child that certain behavior is unacceptable rather than on understanding the root cause.

I disagree. Rudeness serves a purpose for the person using it. Some unspoken need is being met with the behaviours, and the behaviours will continue or manifest in more hidden, and possibly damaging, ways if the surface expression of the underlying need is suppressed.

If she is meeting a need that is too complex for her to communicate politely or which is beyond her awareness, coaching on appropriate ways to express herself and gentle discussions with a parent will provide a better outlet for the upset. Critiquing and punishing the behaviour without communicating a commitment to help the child will just reduce future communication between the parent and child, erode trust, and reduce the effectiveness of future parental interventions.

When someone feels bad or mad or sad, or tired, or ill, or disappointed, or guilty, or shamed, or disrespected, or misunderstood, or jealous, or powerless, or tricked, or trapped, or insignificant, or used, or undermined, or is experiencing any type of negative emotion, a metacognitive moment may empower them to more effectively deal with their predicament, put it into perspective, shake it off, let it go, or formulate a plan to move forward. When people do not recognize or acknowledge their feelings, they may internalize anger (depression) or act angrily toward others.

Some may disagree.

Possibly both are important?
What others experience externally of one's behavior is important.
What one experiences internally, developing positive self-talk and having a healthy relationship with one's self, is also important.
Lumped together, they're often referred to as social/emotional.

A rather frequent topic on the boards is children who are experienced as delightful, compliant, good natured at school... then may come home and express a day's worth of frustration. Generally, helping a child talk things out may help them learn not to act out. YMMV.

Well said.

Good thoughts from all! DD is a spirited, bold child to start with (I was NOT like this and from what MIL tells me, DH wasn't either!), so DD often throws us for a loop. In addition, she is a super-verbal kiddo, with a quick mind (you REALLY have to try not to get sucked into an argument with her, because her noncompliance can start so innocently). I realized long ago that I cannot expect what I would consider "perfect" behavior from her and that I need to pick my battles, or else I'll constantly be on her case...it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a kid like this. Traditional discipline was never terribly effective with her - you've never seen a kid have more fun by herself on time-out (actually, being so self-entertaining DOES have an upside ). Taking toys or privileges away has almost no effect. Suffice it to say, she has kept me on my toes up until now! This is just adding a whole new layer to the "fun."

DD9 has been difficult for basically forever and when she gets in a mood, watch out. She argued with people like a lawyer when she was 5. Dh has a much harder time with her and I noticed that it's because he stoops to her level and engages her, making accusations like "If you would just do....blah blah." Then he starts lecturing and it makes ME roll my eyes and I start imitating him under my breath (Blah, blah-blah, blah BLAH). Dh's droning on and engaging her gets DD even more worked up and argumentative. I tend to just tell her why she can't do something or why she did something wrong in a matter of fact way and let it go without lecturing or going on about it (and doling out a consequence if needed). DD is not nearly as argumentative or sassy with me as she is with Dh.

DD is getting to the point where I'm seeing some sarcasm. She doesn't really roll her eyes at me but she rolls her eyes when she's making fun of someone else's behavior. She has an uncanny ability to imitate people perfectly, complete with accent or whatever. She doesn't do this to make anyone feel bad...but people on TV or it might be a teacher at school and she imitates them later. It can be hilarious but I fear the teenage years if she is doing this already.

When did my kid move to your house? Odd.

I am, too.


And for the record, it sounds as though several of you are living with Mini-DD. I'm actually laughing out loud at Blackcat-- because her DH's engagement sounds a lot like my DH's struggles with our DD.

She is most of the time quite a delightful young lady now that she is 15. What she was frequently like (to us, anyway) at ages 7 through 12 doesn't really bear repeating.

{shudder}


I'm kind when I tell her that things are not "acceptable" methods of communicating, or of expressing her feelings-- but firm about where boundaries are. NO, you will not use that clipped tone of voice with ME. Oh-no-you-don't.

And when she did it again, HK, what did you actually DO? I have struggled forever with two kids who are pretty much indifferent to any consequence I have ever dreamed up.

We have a moody little 8 year old teenage boy. The tone is sometimes unbelievable. DH sometimes gets into shouting matches as if he actually were thirteen or above and I have to calm them both down. In his case, we know it's the tension leaking out from school where he is among the well behaved group suffering from very ill behaved classmates but I want to refuse it let these kids, by proxy, set our whole family on edge. It's not easy because all "consequences" make the tension worse. Really, he needs time in, calm adult attention, no siblings, the right kind of stimulation AND the food he just cannot concentrate on and is rude abot, but sometimes we simply cannot provide that.

About that... I heard a psychologist say once that shouting is a fear response due to a feeling of losing control. Anytime I find myself ready to shout at my DD, I try to think about that. What do I have to fear? I'm the one with all the power in the relationship, unless I do something stupid and give it to her (like, say, making it easy for her to manipulate me into anger).

I also think about the time when she was a month old and colicky, nothing would settle her down, it was two in the morning, and I had to be able to think coherently at work. After having tried everything for about an hour, with no success, my patience ended, and I shouted, "WHAT?!", and her screaming escalated. Lesson learned.

DD9 is mostly compliant and a pleaser, though naturally she saves her worst behavior for home. DW and I are guilty of having made DD the center of our universe, so that can cause ego issues. Every once in a while I have to remind her that I'm her parent.

Just this last week, she decided to be a butt about brushing her teeth and getting ready for bed. One day she said she wasn't going to do it, and I just shrugged, and said that's fine, I'm not going to read her a story. She did it again the next night, and I said we're not going to have this conversation, brushing is not optional. The third night, I just told her I didn't want to play this game every single night, it's not fun. No issues since. In all three cases, the argument was over in two sentences in a normal tone.

Yes-- like Dude and MoN, it's a matter of: a) picking battles that have to be won, and b) knowing that I'm doing the adult thing in teaching her that her behaviors have pretty predictable consequences.

So if she is nasty or snotty-- real world consequence dictates that she NOT get whatever it is she is after. Period. Doesn't matter how inconvenient or unpleasant it is to me.

And by the way, I strongly discourage ANY indication that the parental unit finds denying the child what s/he is seeking as anything of the kind-- more like "routine" or "what is easier for me anyway, makes no difference." Even better if you can shrug and maintain a completely neutral facial expression.

There is no "reward" for civil and non-manipulative behavior. That's a basic expectation, in our opinion as parents and as people. Building better relationships with others is the reward.

For example, yes, I have held my child down to medicate her against her will. Yes, I have.

She refused several nights running, and she was warned. She didn't cross that line again. She has autonomy over it as a result of demonstrating her compliance with what is necessary and prudent.

I only had to brush her teeth FOR her a couple of times when she was about seven, and she got the picture. Non-negotiable. She wanted to NOT do it, and make no mistake-- this was a power struggle.

The thing is, they are still children, and we are still supplying wants in addition to basic needs. This isn't rocket science at that point-- we always have leverage as a result of that power imbalance. I mean-- how is a 7yo going to get to a preferred activity if we refuse to permit them to go as a result of being treated like scullery maids?



I don't fear power struggles with my daughter-- I expect them. She is who she is. I am still the parent, and she needs to understand that entering a power struggle with someone who has authority over you is generally a losing proposition. So I've taught her that-- as lovingly as I possibly can. Better me than her first boss or her research advisor, right?

She has learned to rein in her mouth, keep her feelings to herself when appropriate, and to apologize well. Those are pretty essential life skills, and they mark her as a teen that has a maturity about her that adults really appreciate. She reaps the rewards pretty frequently with opportunities that others aren't given, and she knows that there is a connection to her circumspect and non-egocentric behavior, which is unusual among her agemates.

For a PG kid, that is a HUGE payoff.

I don't know, though--all due respect, but I read everyone's suggestions and think "But we do that." Oh, and we do. Over and over. Sometimes it does work. Other times, I feel like we're just pushing the ball along to another spot. So, we may get through the toothbrushing thing with that type of exchange, but now she's mad because she "lost." The feeling is still there and will move forward to the next event when we make a request. And at that time, there may not be good leverage, or we need to get out of the house, or there is additional complexity that makes "so we simply don't...and she simply must..." not feasible (note: many times it is, but not always). So I don't always feel like these techniques are really working at all. I get the feeling a lot like we are papering something over, something deeper that is causing these battles to recur and recur. So yes, I generally know how to get compliance, because I have figured out ways. But what is the cost? And why is the lasting change largely absent?

And I have to say, I have another child who is more typical in personality and persistence and we are freaking ninjas at parenting that one (except when it comes to sibling issues, because put her in there and chaos can happen) because typical parenting crap, hell, that's easy.

I do understand where you are coming from. Completely. DD is NOT our only child, or our only very bright child, for that matter (I have 2 DYS). But DD has ALWAYS had an intensity about her that just makes her DIFFERENT. She is absolutely wired differently. Also, DH and I are NOT afraid to discipline her - in reality, DD has had more "discipline" than DS ever needed. If DS was my only, I would truly believe that DH and I were parenting geniuses, because he is just so much easier to parent (we love the both the same, of course!). DD is the child that none of the parenting manuals really work on - we had to toss most of the aside long ago and figure things out on our own.

Yes. This. All of it-- except that sometimes she isn't on our side when her agenda and ours diverge-- and in those instances, we rely on MY parental gut, because like Dude and his DD, I happen to have the operating manual for DD's brain.

I often know exactly what she is thinking. That's not to say that it is always rational, by any means-- just that I have insights into her behavior (and often know on a gut level when it's voluntary versus involuntary/maturity stuff) that my DH lacks.

I wish I had the manual to my DD's brain, but I definitely do not. *sigh*