We are off to a rough start with school.

We started our DS4 in a montessori preschool last year and he was miserable. Teachers were seeing depression, anxiety and aggression. Plus he didn't engage in "the work." At their suggestion we had him evaluated (observations, testing, etc.). The studies results placed him at 99.8 percentile with a 143 GAI (probably higher since he didn't fully engage in all tests). They found no signs of ADHD, ODD or otherwise but he did display some impulse and focus issues (he was 3 at the time though.) They suggested our problems were rooted in a bad fit with the montessori method and suggested that we place him in a high quality play based preschool and accelerate him into the 4 year old class and kindergarten next. I say accelerate but really it's just accelerating him by a few weeks since he's just 4 weeks shy of the age cutoff.

Fast forward to this year. He's now in a very good play based preschool. It's a very small class with just 7 kids and a good, but somewhat rigid teacher. He seems much happier than last year and they are not seeing any depression or anxiety which is good, however there are behavioral concerns. He has a hard time with self control at circle time (fidgeting and not keeping his hands to himself), he's overexcited at recess which can lead to pushing, etc. and he can be rather defiant with his teacher. I'm noticing a trend that the problems stem from circle (boredom?) and free play time (social issues?). I think at recess it's a combination of overexcited and over sensitivities with the 2 other boys. He just hasn't yet mastered how to control his energy so he's overwhelming for the other kids turns into a vicious circle (he gets a little to crazy so they don't want to play with him which, in turn hurts his feelings so he's even crazier because he doesn't know how to manage the feelings.)

Lot's of background music.... here's my question: HOW DO I HELP HIM? I think some of this relates back to his giftedness and seeing it through the gifted glasses helps me to understand the causes, but I still don't know how to help him. He clearly needs to learn how to behave in a group setting and he's going to have to learn how to manage through things that bore him. And he has to learn that he can't be rude and defiant with his teacher. That's all clear. But HOW DO I HELP HIM LEARN IT? His school set up a sticker program but that doesn't seem to help since it doesn't address the triggers.

Any advice from people who have been there done that? I use a 1 2 3 system at home that seems to work and at home he's definitely a ball of energy and nonstop questions but generally he's delightful. Challenging but delightful. My concern is school. I think he needs to learn these subtle social things but I'm at a loss for how to help him.

Hi Rioja,

I could have written your post about my DS (now 7), word for word. Except the 123 system didn't even work for us at home. Here are a few thoughts:

1. Every child is different - but my guess is this WILL get better. We've had a bumpy road, but DS is now in first grade with a good teacher. He has a best friend and knows how to interact with the other kids. He shows respect to (most of) the adults. He is generally happy-ish in school. All is not roses. But things are soooo much better than they were 3 years ago.

2. For me personally, the turning point came when I honestly came to understand that it wasn't "he won't." The problem was "he can't." That's why sticker charts don't work for kids like ours. They assume the kid CAN, but just WON'T. For my DS, no matter how he tried, he couldn't.

3. Soooo - what to do? For DS it was - where possible - minimizing triggers. Here are things we (finally) convinced the school would be helpful They were, by the way.

DO make sure he has a trusted relationship with adults at the school. Ideally this is the teacher. Not so for us in K, but better now in first. He also has close relationships with the director of his after care and with the principal.

DON'T make him fail. Don't ask him to sit shoulder-to-shoulder on a little classroom carpet. Why not have all the kids scoot back a foot? DON'T keep him in at recess or lunch to finish work Send it home and I'll help. DON'T shame him by writing his name on the blackboard or using a sticker chart other kids can see or any of those other nasty, bullying things that schools do. These things all work on an assumption that he CAN, but he WON'T. My son is trying hard. But he can't. If you help him, maybe he will be able to sooner.

DO give him a chance to shine. He has a ton to offer to the class. Call on him as often as you reasonably can. Say "what a good point" when he makes one. Say "can you raise your hand?" and when he does call on him so he can repeat what he just blurted out. Then say "what a good point" - if it was. And if your DS is like mine, it probably will be.

DON'T embarrass him for knowing things other kids don't know yet. DON'T say "we're not doing fractions yet" without also adding "but, that's right. Looks like you are ready for fractions!"

4. This one is for you - don't pay any attention to the little smirks or outright offensive remarks you'll get about behavior. Those folks don't have any idea what your DS is trying to handle. And sadly, even if they did, they probably wouldn't cut him any slack. But it's not a problem with you being too easy on him. It's just a very hard row for you both to hoe.

5. Last - this whole time was incredibly, painfully, awful for DS. He felt lonely and broken. He asked me to stop telling him I loved him, because "nobody could love a kid like me." The single best piece of advice I got was to give him all the unconditional love I could. I hold off on questions when I know things went badly at school. We got him a dog (pure, pure, pure unconditional love). We tell him we are proud of him when he does well AND when he doesn't. When he doesn't, we find a point where he tried, and tell him we are proud of that. Then we find ways to work on the things that didn't go well. We praise where it's warranted. BUT we cannot overdo the praise, because the wise little man won't believe any of it if we do. And always - a steady drumbeat of love and being there for him and of WANTING to be there for him. No questions, no exceptions.

We are not out of the woods yet. But I think we are getting there, and I want you to know that you and your DS will, too.

Hugs,
Sue

You've received great advice above.

I'll just add that as it seems this is a frequent topic, and many helpful resources such as Social Thinking have been mentioned over time, have you explored the Age & Ability Specific Forums? There is a forum especially for Pre-school. You may find some resources there.

This is heartbreaking. And not uncommon with gifted kids.

I'm a bit confused at a play based pre school having recess. When I say play based I mean like we have here where it is all free play except maybe 10 minutes twice a day and meal times. I also don't think 7 kids and one teacher is a good fit. One teacher can't sit and talk to him for a while but with 24 kids and 3 teachers there is more scope. It is also more likely you will find a friend.

Rioja, do you think he's usually defiant or could it be a reaction to her rigidity?


The concerns you mention may be due to regulation issues and perhaps sensory sensitivities. The Alert Program can help you develop strategies to guide your child to the path of self-regulation. While the program in the first link below suggests that adults must do all the scaffolding for very young children, some gifted children may easily understand the concept and over time began to regularly employ their own strategies. YMMV.

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Leader...sr=1-1&keywords=how+does+your+engine+run

http://www.amazon.com/Zones-Regulat...9727&sr=1-1&keywords=zones+of+regulation

IMO, the hardest emotion for some young children to manage is overexcitement, because it's so pleasurable - why stop. It sounds like your DS already sees the negative ramifications with his friends, but he needs assistance in realizing the links in this chain of events. Is there an opportunity for you to coach in the moment when you see him in a similar situation in a non-school environment? Perspective taking will help, and humor goes a long way. Some reco's below:

http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Spac...85&sr=8-8&keywords=my+mouth+is+a+volcano

http://www.amazon.com/My-Mouth-Volcano-Julia-Cook/dp/1931636850/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

More importantly, what does the teacher see as HER role in the behaviors and development of solutions? Most early learning programs see teaching social and emotional skills, including self-control, thru games, activities and stories as an essential part of the program. Is she laying this entirely on your lap or contributing to compassionate solutions?

Thank you. You provided some good advice, especially about setting him up for success instead of failure. I hope you little on is happier now.

Thank you. The first program on self regulation looks great. I sent a link to the teacher and director to get their feedback. I don't think they do anything regarding actually teaching self regulation. They just expect the kids to do it, but my DS needs some direct instruction. If they don't do something of the sorts in the classroom I may do it myself at home. It's also an interesting point you made about what the teacher's role is in it. I think to date, it's just been "he needs to learn...." without any advice or ideas on how to help him learn.

THANKS

Circle time can be difficult for some children. Can you ask the teacher to make circle time a little more mentally challenging for your child? A little boy was bored on circle, and giving him a question partway through circle that he had to consider or figure out, perhaps the answer had to incorporate something a classmate said, then give his answer near the end, made circle time much more manageable. Directed the energy to the brain, instead of the body.

Many days, he had to think of three things, activities, etc, to do that day. When things got "dicey", he'd be directed to think of something from that short list.

Playground time can be a challenge. Semi-directed play, a game, would keep things sane, but at the same time free play is what they need. Perhaps a game a few times a week, free play the others?

Having a buddy in class, an intellectual (or close to it) peer, is helpful. It can also lead to opportunities to learn how to give someone their space, and to request one's own space.

I'm sorry if this sounds cryptic, but because I am talking about a situation I was involved with but that didn't involve my own child, I can't write too freely.

This is where it is important to have a frank and friendly conversation with the teacher. You're so lucky it is a small class! Is it a public-type program, through the town or park district? If so, a companion can be very useful, and paid for by the preschool. If you are in an independent preschool, you can ask for recommendations that you might have to pay for. A good companion can make a world of difference.

It drives me absolutely crazy when teachers - especially preschool teachers - think it's not their job to teach social skills. For preschoolers, that almost defeats the purpose of going to school. They are all still learning how to relate to each other and function as a group. If the teacher isn't guiding the process, who is?

My DS is older than yours (he just turned 7), but we have had a few school issues and had been trying many different things to encourage him to do well. What I've realized, though, is that nothing will work if he is uncomfortable in the environment. Recently, the school moved him from first grade to second grade and gave him more independence in his work. It made an amazing difference on the first day and I think it helped to show the school that he really does want to do well but needs their help (rather than just being disobedient). It's not just academics; he does better in a class that is calm because other kids with behavior issues or separation anxiety upset him (one teacher said they felt he was too empathetic, but I think the disruption bothers him as well). Obviously, other kids do sometimes have behavior problems and teachers have to try to help everyone. When my son won't stay in his seat, clearly that is distracting to other kids. However, he does much better when there aren't other kids having major behavioral difficulties. So combining those things (a calmer classroom and better academic work) really makes a dramatic difference in his ability to do well, which is the first step in getting the confidence to do well in more challenging situations as well.

I loved your post suevv.

We lucked out when my DS was 4 and found a montessori style school that didn't force him into things. He didn't sit down at circle time for about 2 months, and that was okay. He eventually wanted to! It was the guitar songs that sucked him in.

It is not so much the preschool's stated philosophy but how the teacher handles the individual that counts. This teacher described his personality as "passionate" and complimented how he could energize the other students when he was engaged. She chose to focus on his positives. It was a lovely way to look at him as there were several other possible descriptions on any given day! They were so nice to him and had generous hearts and it went so far for him. He attached and bonded and respected them and the experience continues to serve him well now 2 years later when he is forced to do much more that doesn't quite suit him and gets so much less positive attention from a teacher.

So my first question is whether your DS is getting a foundation of school right now that includes feeling attached to his teacher, and his teacher feeling appreciation for him? Is she negative or positive? When you are there do you hear mostly comments that restrain him, or are those comments outweighed with positive comments?

At home part of your success with the 123 method may be that you also are often polite to him, compliment him when he does a good job, encourage him in a positive way, are friendly to him or give him hugs etc. You likely try to minimize the time spent in grumping at him by simplifying it to the 123. So the overall situation is generally stable and positive overall, right?

So that's the first question, is his teacher similarly spending most of her time with him in a positive way? If not, that is the biggest issue.

Next, is the teacher helping the other children respond to your DS? For example when he pushes them is the teacher intervening saying, "DS no poking?" or is she saying, "Matt did you want DS to poke you just now?" "How does that make you feel?" "Matt would you like to ask DS to keep his hands to himself?"

Some preschools do a great job of social scaffolding. And other otherwise good preschools don't. It may take observing to see what is happening that could be improved.

One preschool I saw always had the person who had accidentally tripped or whatever to another child go and get a cold pack for the child that had fallen down. It was great as it gave the child who had pushed/etc something to do while the teacher was attending to the one with hurt feelings, and the act of giving it was more tangible than a forced "sorry". They felt helpful.

But that was just one little part of their overall approach. The teacher would be literally down on the ground at child level. They would get the "hurt" child to explain their feelings. Everything stopped while the pokee or pushee got to say their side. The hurt child would typically say something one couldn't hear. The teacher would paraphrase "Matt says his feelings got hurt".....Matt is asking you not to poke him again." It made a lot more impact (at least on some kids) than a teacher intoning "don't poke" or giving them a time out. It was all very non-judgmental, nothing punitive or negative about it at all.

The negative or punitive responses were entirely saved for truly dangerous situations.

Probably a lot of your DSs behavior is the stimulation and a enhanced level of tension induced by perhaps him not being quite ready for boring circle times, feeling a bit pent up by the demands, etc. It's understandable and lots of kids are just the same. So if he is seeming to get a lot of negativity for it then it may be the teacher could use you observing that he responds best when another child tells him to stop, etc. Or however you can figure out to enhance their social teaching.

Another one who could have written your post when DS was four.
It will get better - in retrospect, it appeared to me that four was the age when DS found the combination of social overstimulation as intellectual under stimulation hardest to handle. In order to cut down on the overstimulation, we tried to keep our days to one activity, max - and one of those was preschool. I also read up a lot on sensory issues. check out sensational kids and the out of synch child and see whether some of it resonates. Hard work (pushing boxes etc.) and sensory stuff like water and mud play helped regulate our child, running around like crazy during recess did not - a lot of physical exercise just serves to ramp up their excitement and getting tired makes it harder for them to compensate, so conventional preschool teacher wisdom on this May not help. If you feel that sensory issues might play a part, a round of OT might help (it also might help to get preschool teachers off your back, who like it when parents demonstrate a willingness to look for outside help.
There is probably not much you can do help the intellectual under stimulation. What we did was simply tell his teachers - they did believe us and it helped them put some of his behaviours into perspective, and even if there wasn't much they could offer, reframing his behaviours helped them and thus helped DS. It might not work for every teacher. Tread carefully on that one.

Maybe they also need some perspective on what is normal excitable behaviour for a four year old - they may draw from a very select cohort for their high quality preschool. I remember talking to DS music school teacher about whether he was as much of a behaviour problem as in preschool and he said, sure, he was a handful - but mostly so in comparison to the exceptionally well behaved older girls in his class. Then added: "you know, I teach in all parts of town, you don't even know what a real behavioral problem looks like!"

(bump)