I was tested by a private psychologist through my school when I was in 6th grade, and they said I was gifted, although I never found out what my IQ was. I thought that was bunk because although I liked to read, I couldn't do math. I was (am) also very artistic. I did have unusual interests in elementary school, like wanting to be Japanese and being completely interested in Japanese culture (I am of various Celtic descent) and being very interested in plants and gardening to the point that I joined a plant of the month club at 10 and was very happy receiving plants through the mail until my dad found out by getting a bill. But I didn't feel that much smarter than the next kid, although I did feel like I didn't belong etc. probably because of my unusual interests.

Fast forward to now, my 9 year old son just tested HG (GAI 159). We had him tested by a private assessor because he was inattentive in class (and this going several years to 1st grade). His third grade teacher told us she thought he was gifted and wanted him to get tested in the school system which we did (at the moment awaiting results), but we also had a private assessment done because our understanding was the G and T test would not tell us if he had ADHD or other issues. Assessor said very smart, very persistent, slow processing (21st percentile) due to perfection and anxiety, but not ADHD.

Also had my 7yo daughter assessed turns out her score is almost the same numbers (GAI 160).

Neither of them appear to do any of this advanced stuff I read about all the time - like what you see on those "how do you know if your child is gifted" lists.

Neither of them read early, they both learned in kindergarten and were not in the top reader groups. Now my son loves to read non-fiction books about science and animals and many of the book are adult level books- but I don't know if he's actually really reading them or just reading parts of them with the pictures that interest him. When he was 18 months the ped told us to get him help because he had no words. It turned out that he had childhood apraxia so we did speech therapy. At that time he was assessed and found to be age appropriate or slightly delayed in everything with the exception of puzzles, he was about a year ahead of his peers [EDITED: I have since looked back at the assessment they did then and he was actually advanced several months to several years in everything except fine motor. The apraxia was related to his physical development, he understood everything but couldn't physically talk.]. He also likes to draw animals of his own creation, and between 1st grade and 2nd he made a very long "mural" of pictures by taping 8" x 11" pieces of paper together (100 feet). I admit that seemed unusual.

My daughter couldn't care less about reading, she just wants to do all the age appropriate stuff like rainbow loom, playing with stuffed animals, art, minecraft etc.

I actually wouldn't believe they were HG except for the following:

Both have tons of the over-excitabilities.
Both kids have chosen best friends that are either at least a year older or are gifted or both.
Both kids have way too much energy.
My son constantly starts sentences "Well, technically... " but I say that a lot so I'm sure he picked it up from me.
My son does something I do, which is when something interests me I get sort of obsessed about it, read about it, talk about it, generally annoy people with my all consuming interest in one particular subject until I'm over it. Currently his is How To Train Your Dragon.
My son would much rather talk to adults than kids any day.

But any physics breakthroughs going on? Nope.

Do they say things every once in while that are interesting.. yes. So can anyone shed light on what is going on? Am I just looking at it the wrong way? My son and daughter do fine at school but they are not at the tops of their classes, they are 3s and 4s (proficient and advanced in all areas). My daughter's behavior is fine, my son gets "impulsive, inattentive" notes. All his teachers love him though.

In my life I have met many many people that I felt were more intelligent than I am. This may be my own perception of myself. One caveat, I did recently discover that 80% of my close friends were actually in the GATE program as children. It's actually weird, either there were a lot of us, or I have a radar for this...so maybe I have a lot of intelligent friends which is why I don't see it?

I just keep feeling like I am missing a piece of the puzzle somehow...

PS I also have tons of family stories about how smart my parents, grandparents were: my dad took apart clocks and put back together at 3 years old, doing math in his head that was incredibly hard to do, etc. My mom went to the national spelling bee, you know that sort of thing. My kids seem (to me) to be moderately gifted, I don't see the HG part...

If you have read this far, thank you.

Maybe your kids haven't been given a lot of opportunity to use their gifts yet?

What were their areas of strength on their IQ tests?

Do you trust the private tester?

I think your perspective is skewed. I know I have pretty much exclusively very smart friends because they're interesting to talk to, and probably because they don't find my enthusiasm for strange things off putting. And since my friends are smart, so are their kids. I doubt I know any children would would test as average.

GAI in the high 150s is really really crazy high (99.9%+), but slow processing speed is a very very significant issue which can cause them to seem lower than average, and which people automatically take for low IQ. It is a common problem, we came up with a very unique solution which probably isn't available to you, so I don't know how helpful I can be.

I see my son's "giftedness" when he is really enthusiastic about something he enjoys.

I don't know if I'm gifted, but I do know that I'm intelligent. It started to show up more around the 3rd to 4th grade, when I became really interested in reading for pleasure. My vocabulary and writing skills built up quickly. Up until then, I wanted to be outside to explore and run with the neighbor kids.

My point is that children are on a different timeline. Often you hear about gifted children being interested in mainly academic or intellectual pursuits, but I think that all people are on a different timeline.

You "might" provide a bit of supplementation in reading or math (something interesting- not too "school") to see if your kids pick up on it. I'm thinking more along the lines of math games or broadening reading horizons. My opinion is that the elementary school curriculum is a bit boring- depending on the teacher of course. Maybe your kids are underachieving?

Second that there might be subtest variance that could be holding them back. I would definitely look at those subtest scores and ask for interpretation.

Can't agree more. High IQ helps, but it's one of many factors that make one successful. My DS asked me a few times about his IQ scores when he was little. He doesn't ask anymore, I think it's partly because my family de-emphasizes talent and we are always about effort and efficiency. But when he asked, my answer was always that his IQ is high enough, whether or not he can reach his goals in life depends on other factors. :-)

Kids don't do any advanced work if there is no reward for it. For many gifted kids challenge or satisfying curiosity are their own rewards. If they aren't challenged by content or material, then they may develop their own challenges like "How to do the least amount of work and score high enough." or "How to blend in and look/act like everyone else." or "How to do everything perfectly." etc.

Some HG kids seem to begin slower but are really just accumulating a ton of information and ideas and suddenly as their brain starts its serious reorganization around 11 then everything can change. Some percentage of HG kids aren't going to find their way without help and become disaffected, maybe dropping out of school or other challenges.

The typical term for that performance vs. potential mismatch is underachievement.

SENG Underachievement

Thank you for your responses, this really helps.

If I look at FSIQ instead of GAI he is only 138 because processing speed is 21st percentile which is pretty low. The assessor says it's because of anxiety and because slow processing speed is common for gifted kids (although she did say it was VERY slow, which she believes is due to anxiety). He is not interested in anything at school at all except science and art. He doesn't appear to have ADHD beyond normal disorganized 9 year old boy, but does concentrate so deeply when interested in something or daydreaming that we have to repeat his name several times to get his attention. He doesn't appear to have anxiety to me beyond separation anxiety which is actually pretty strong and we are working on it. It's hard because I remember growing up and thinking I'm gifted I'm supposed to be smart, now I wonder if I have slow processing speed because I have felt a little slow around my friends and have trouble communicating what I know clearly (which is often on expert level because I spend days to weeks obsessively researching things and I am pretty concerned about accuracy).

My daughter has a FSIQ of 148 and processing speed at 79th percentile. She actually appears a lot less gifted than he does, although both her GAI and FSIQ are higher.

But I agree wholeheartedly, high IQ doesn't equal success or happiness in life (in fact sometimes it creates challenges to happiness)- effort, efficiency, the ability to get along with a lot of different people and to appreciate life in general are much more important. None of my family are happy except for me, and truthfully I haven't done all that much with my life that would be wikipedia worthy, but I find I am often grateful for the people and things in it (especially the Internet and for forums like this one where people you have never met will take the time to help you).

It's just hard to figure out what to do with a kid that is obviously bored at school, but it's because he's not interested in academics..my daughter does fine, at least for now.

Cammom, I did lobby for this one teacher who is supposed to be a good fit for kids like my son. I was also an unachiever and I remember just feeling like the material was very dull and not worth bothering with. I only liked art and journalism until I took the GED at 16 and went to Community College. That was eye opening for me, suddenly I loved school.

Talullah- can you PM me what your unique solution was? The assessor says the speed issue is due to anxiety, but I'd still be interested in what you did...even if it's not available here.

I don't know if this helps but I know a few others like your DC. Their FSIQ were well over 140 but they were just not all that academically driven and they stayed under the radar at school. They coasted throughout their prep school career and they didn't do much more in college. One of them went to a law school only because she didn't feeling like working.

On the other end of the spectrum, I know someone who won every single STEM award in the state for 4 straight years in high school. He was always extremely driven but his younger siblings were not as high-profile although all of them are most likely at least HG+. I think it takes more than high cognitive abilities to strive towards exceptional academic achievements.

If I learned anything from my friends who have raised GT children who are now adults, is that with some of them, you have to push a little bit to find something they find challenging and rewarding that could lead to a career. A boy I know was floundering but his middle school science teacher saw his talent then talked his parents into sending him to a NASA-sponsored summer camp. That really turned his life around and now he is on a full scholarship in college and doing very well.

Both of your DC are still young. They have many years to find their inspiration.

Well...he's 9. His scores and anxiety are almost identical to my son's, and my son is interested in a lot of different things but he's not curing cancer. Right now, he's delving into chemistry and science because that is what interests him. We use his interests to bridge him over to other things. This week, as an example, he is taking a workshop on archaeology because it's about mass destruction (think Pompeii and eight-year-old boys).

Does he enjoy the Horrible Science and Murderous Math books? My son LOVES those and totally enjoys sharing the gory details with me. I recently discovered they have Horrible Histories and Geographies so those are the next two sets we will buy.

My son loves to do science experiments but hates to write (something to do with the low processing speed). We made a deal that he would type up a "Scientific Proposal" to include a funding request. They aren't terribly detailed but it does help him to organize his thoughts.

Sometimes I think I expect more of him because I know my own capabilities but...he's still an eight-year-old boy.

Zen Scanner -That's a great link. I was definitely an underachiever. In elementary school, my grades were average at best but I was known as "the artist" until in Junior High when another kid started being "the artist" and I lost my identity- so I basically gave up.

Junior High and first year of high school I underachieved until I failed out for truancy. I transferred to another high school (I went to live with my mom in another city, parents were divorced and I had been living with dad) and although I still hung out with the "bad" kids, I started making straight As as my mom paid me for grades I didn't tell anyone about my grades though. In Junior year of High School boyfriend was a jerk so I broke up with him and took the GED since I felt there was nothing left for me in high school.

I did fine in college except that I never felt like I figured out where my real talents were. My father always said being really really good at one particular thing was a trap, because once you have an identity as that person, no one will ever let you do anything else

Anyway, my son seems a lot like me, and I am learning a lot about myself in the process of trying to figure him out. After learning about giftedness I realize that in many ways I'm textbook. Now I understand why I did (do) so many things. It's a relief actually.

Mana, that is good advice -

Minx, your son sounds a lot like mine, in fact he is sitting next to me reading two of the Horrible Science books as I type this. We also have Horrible Geography and Horrible Science but not the Horrible History and Murderous Maths books. I think I will order those today for summer reading.

My son also loves disasters, at one time very interested in the Titanic and likes watching shows about killer fish like "River Monsters" (but then we can't get him to go to sleep because the same stuff he loves during the day scares him at night *sigh*).

I am going to have him do a typing program on the computer over the summer, I think some of the slow processing speed might be helped by typing.

Thank you all, this is making me feel better.

I have a 7 and a 5 year old with fsiq percentiles of >99.9 and 99.8 respectively. They don't do anything amazing either. They like to kick halls and ride bikes and didn't learn to read until school (though they were more ready than many). They seem normal to me - but then I meet a kid that is average...

I would agree that skewed perspective is a significant contributing factor. I grew up in a community that was heavily over-selected for presumptive high-IQ individuals (judging by the percentage of PhDs, MDs, JDs, college professors, patent-holders, and national academic & professional award-winners among the parents of my friends). The kid whose social role in our peer group was that of the sweet-but-none-too-bright kid graduated from a selective four-year college. It was not unusual for peer group members to enroll at the flagship state uni instead of elite private universities, because, well, it doesn't matter where you go to undergrad, just where you get your terminal (real) post-grad degree. Until I entered my current profession, where I measure it regularly, I really had no idea what normative intelligence looked like.

And gifted kids are still kids. There are still many who will take the path of least resistance, whether that means skating through academics, quietly daydreaming through boredom, or disguising abilities in an attempt to fit in socially.

Help them to feel loved, valued, and secure as human beings, without conditions associated with performance or accomplishment, and you will have laid the foundation for them to explore and discover their talents and interests, in their own time.

I actually regard it as a completely triumph of parenting when a child who is HG/HG+ seems... completely their chronological age in some (maybe even "most") ways-- provided that they are happy and seem comfortable in their own skin, I mean.

That's an indication that a parent has taken the time and dedication to respond well to that child's NEEDS, and hasn't pushed him/her to BE something other than s/he is.

My DD may have a scientific publication at age 14, but she also likes to draw (badly), go to the movies with her friends, wear adorable unicorn slippers, read webcomics and high fantasy, and worries about not "looking dorky" in whatever (kooky, occasionally) outfit she's put on. She is still figuring out how to apply makeup, and is terrified to learn to drive. In other words, in many of the ways that count, she IS only 15 years old. She's also a complete rock star who is among the top 1% of the students admitted to her college next fall. BOTH of those people are the "real" DD.

I think it is to our credit that she has the freedom to BE both of them.

Brava!

I think that the stereotype of say, reading by 2 years old, discovering new elements, a more elegant proof of Fermat's last theorem and completing an Ngala opera by age 4 and decoding the mystery of Andean quipas by 7 is really damaging. I felt embarrassed and presumptuous for even testing my DD for giftedness until I found that my DD who didn't learn to read until about five and a half is apparently gifted.

My DD is a normal (ish) 9 year old that happens to have a GAI > 99.9 percentile an FSIQ at the 99.8 %'tile. While she can be intense and preternaturally observant but she will also play my little pony, Wii or just goof around with the boys and girls that are her friends.

DW and I thought DD was NT with behavioral issues until we tested her because learning stuff quickly (some things do take more concentration than others, admittedly) etc didn't seem that special to us as we do the same.

Ha. I was thinking about starting a new thread because DD has discovered My Little Pony and that is all she ever cares about. My little scholar who used to fit many of the stereotypes of PG children is now a child fan of MLP. I don't mind that she likes MLP but she is taking it to the extreme, as always.

Good to hear that this doesn't mean that she has lost herself in the land of Equestria.

I happened to be looking though DS9s records from when he had a speech delay and when he was assessed at 3 years of age he was advanced anything from 6 months to a couple of years in everything except fine motor skills- those he was age appropriate.

So I guess he was advanced at a young age, but because he had a speech delay I didn't see any of it beyond the puzzles. He was definitely pretty good at puzzles. And honestly I just assumed he if he was advanced it was because they'd been working with him.

Still think there's 2e going on, just don't know what it is. There is a note that he had a visual sequencing problem...but he's a good reader so..

You sound like me! I'm struggling to accept DD is gifted because she doesn't fit any of the lists. But now she is relaxed I'm starting to see it. We don't have any "geniuses" in the family however we do have a raft of rebels, trouble makers and poets etc. so I guess it just shows itself in different ways. DS18m is gifted at giving me gray hair....

Mahagogo5- mine are gifted at giving me grey hair too!

I probably would be able to accept he is MG, but I worry that because he is HG if he is also 2e that he behaves like he is MG. So I need to keep looking until I rule it out.

However, if anxiety is his problem (which I think it is) my being anxious about it is probably NOT helping...LOL

HG children can become lazy , If there isnt any challenge in their school or in their daily life. They may need more help to reach their potential. they may become easily underachiver.They may not have friends around their age peers.they can be pushy children towards their family,they may comit suitcide.....etc If you never sense something wrong with your children as a mother,If you are handling everything good, doesn't matter wheather they are HG or not, live with them happily. As a mother of gifted child my heart always in ache, my DS has always problems. Even He was less than 30 days old, he was making himmmm himmm sounds between crying and trying to talk and complaint.The day like that, it happened offen when he was taking bath and we realized that if we put him in the water again, crying and complaining was getting disappear.so We found ourself explaining everythings to our baby son to make him understand and relax. what am I trying to say this. So many gifted children"s parents have to handle difficulties even without knowing reason, they are seeking help and need IQ testing result for the hope for helping their children.I dont want my son become a scientist, win a award. I want him to be like your children happy in the house and at the school.

I feel your confusion...
I was sure DS7 was MG. Maybe more than that in the nonverbal domain. And I thought that must be about DHs ballpark as well, and mine in the verbal domain. Now it turns out that my goofy, anxious little boy, who taught himself to read at five and mostly has his head in the clouds, has a FSIQ of 154.
I am reassessing my own childhood, reassessing my two younger kids, reassessing kids I know who struck me as the "not that bright" variety...
You just can't tell from the outside. It makes me wonder what is yet to come.

Here too. 95th I could see, >99.9 no he seems pretty normal too me. I also have to continually stop thinking of ds5 as not so bright - his fsiq is only at the 98.8th petcentile. I think we are just a bit warped in our perception. I think the amazing achievements things come down to personality and passion.

Reviving an old thread here that resonates with me...

Yes! So very much this! We look at DS (now 7) and see a normal, socially outgoing little kid most of the time who likes to play tag with his friends and wrestle with his parents. We have remind ourselves that most kids do not, when given the choice to watch Netflix, watch an entire season of Cosmos in a few days and remember it all the following week.

AEH - these words are such a comfort to me. I've been clinging to some unarticulated version of them in my head, just trying to let DS7 grow into himself. To hear them expressed this way by a professional in the field is a such a relief. Apparently I haven't blown it yet!

LAF,

Your DS7 sounds very, very similar to mine - both as to assessment profile and "ambitions." I can't point to achievements in any traditional way that would make people see his PG-ness, or be more tolerant of his 2e-ness (GAI 178; PSI 94; dysgraphic, stealth dyslexia - maybe; really struggles with social/emotional stuff). He didn't read early. He knows ... stuff ... but he is utterly resistant to showing anybody what he knows or can do. It's some sort of extreme privacy thing for him. I get glimpses when he slips up and corrects me, or blurts out something he "shouldn't" know. But for the most part, he looks like a not very well-behaved and otherwise ordinary second grader.

He doesn't show drive to learn physics or chemistry or math or chess or music or languages or much of anything at all, with one Notable Exception. The Notable Exception changes from time to time, usually lasting a year or two. During the Notable Exception's term - there is nothing else worth learning about at all. Nothing. At all. The rest is a "Stupid Waste of My Valuable Time" (direct quote from DS).

Currently, the notable exception is Magic the Gathering. Outside this not very "showy" arena, DS just looks ordinary and fairly disinterested.

Unless - perhaps - they happened by Channel Fireball Game Center on a Magic the Gathering pre-release weekend and saw him happily chatting with and playing against his randomly selected, almost always adult opponents. Winning, sometimes. And losing with grace and a handshake, too, which would be unimaginable for him in other competitions. It's like he's a different person then.

But - that really won't get me far in any discussions with the school about his profile or whatever. Sometimes I think, "if only it was chess rather than Magic." But that's just me wishing I could make MY life easier by having something I could point to. To show how different he is. So people would say wow and be more tolerant of his largely unsuccessful struggle to fit in.

This is longer than I meant it to be. But I wanted you to know that there are other "no visible signs" kids are out there. I'm sticking with "no visible signs - yet" for a while longer.

Sue

DD scored a higher GAI than DS (DD was 150--higher if you calculate extended norms), but she does not come across as that bright. She comes across as having maybe a 130+ IQ, and that is just based on academic ability, not how she behaves in daily life (and that's what her FSIQ is, 135). I think it's a case of her not looking either gifted or disabled because she's 2e, although every once in a while she does something that really surprises me. She was an early reader and looked a lot more advanced when she was in preschool than she does now.

DS doesn't test as high (although when he was tested he had a traumatic brain injury recently, so who knows), but he comes across to me as being more stereotypically gifted (for instance reading the Bible because he's fascinated by it as a historical document, watching documentaries, etc). He took some stupid facebook quiz on geography and then the Civil War and scored better than both me and Dh. You can see the wheels in his head constantly turning, whereas DD would be happy thinking about Pokemon all day. I think IQ tests measure a very limited set of abilities, and creativity and curiosity really aren't included, so that explains some of the differences I see in my own kids.