The abstract of the paper is at
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220973.2012.745469?journalCode=vjxe20#.Uz6wcPldXHV . It says that homework for high school students has diminishing returns beyond 2 hours a night.
http://www.oregonlive.com/kiddo/index.ssf/2013/09/back_to_school_homeworks_benef.htmlHomework's benefits questioned in new study
by Amy Wang
The Oregonian
September 05, 2013
A study published this summer, "Nonacademic Effects of Homework in Privileged, High-Performing High Schools," asserts that current homework practices in such schools "sustain students' advantage in competitive climates yet hinder learning, full engagement, and well-being."
The study's three authors include Mollie Galloway, assistant professor of educational leadership at Lewis & Clark College's Graduate School of Education and Counseling, who says by email:
"As parents, we often make assumptions that homework is good for our kids. We assume it promotes learning, responsibility, study skills, and other positive behaviors. The research on homework is less rosy. There is no evidence that homework at the elementary level enhances student achievement, and at the middle and high school level, our study suggests that too much homework can, in fact, have detrimental physical, mental, and social impacts."
The study, which Galloway conducted with Jerusha Conner of Villanova University and Denise Pope of Stanford University, used data from online and paper surveys of 4,317 students at 10 high-performing high schools in communities with a median household income of more than $90,000 per year.
The students answered questions about homework load, homework usefulness, stress, physical health, time for other activities/endeavors, behavioral engagement (for example, how often they tried as hard as they could in school), and demographic and achievement information.
On average, students said they spent a little over three hours a night on homework, work that they generally found "somewhat" but not "very" useful for learning the material. Most of the students, 72 percent, said they were often or always stressed over schoolwork.
The researchers also found that the more homework students reported doing, the more they reported school stress, physical distress, inability to find time for friends and family, and likelihood of dropping one or more activities. Students also reported many "pointless, mundane" and time-consuming assignments.
When asked why they continued to do homework, many students said they were anxious about disappointing their parents and being punished, threatened or ignored if they did not produce good grades, often defined as straight A's.
The study also noted that:
The benefits of homework appear to plateau at about two hours a night for high school students and that beyond two hours, homework may have "detrimental achievement effects."
Students often find homework less engaging than other out-of-school activities, with the exception of homework that is "authentic" and centers on solving real-world problems.
Homework can diminish the quality of family interactions and foster conflict between school and home.
What such studies routinely ignore, however, is that what
instructors view as "reasonable" and entirely possible in a 1 hour session for a student
appropriately placed in the course, may NOT in fact be the case.
I know what
my DD can do with an hour.
I also know that for many of her seemingly high-achieving peers, that same output/level of mastery is more like a 2-4 hour endeavor.
At some point, parents
are going to need to face the fact that if their child NEEDS to spend four hours a night to manage a pair of AP classes, then that placement is
probably a reach for that child (assuming that there isn't a known reason that everyone is aware of and okay with).
I'm not convinced that teachers are actually intending for students to spend the kind of time that they are spending-- though to be fair, I'm not really sure what they DO expect in a math class that assigns 30 algebra or geometry problems nightly, or class reading that means more than 50 pages a night. That's going to take most students a long time.
Students themselves, of course, have long since cynically decided that teachers ALL seem to believe that their class is: a) the most important thing that the students have ever seen-- or will ever see, and that b) it's the only priority in the student's life. See? Two hours of homework? No problem. This is your only priority, after all.
Not saying that I think teachers DO think that. They don't. But they can be a teeeeeensy bit myopic on this score. Occasionally, I mean.
And on the other side of the coin, my DS can take 4 hours to do one hour's worth of work, complaining about how unfair school is, and life in general, moaning, groaning, stalling, getting sidetracked, finding a pencil, finding a piece of paper, finding (or not finding because it's still at school) the book, and so on, ad infinitum.
If he'd actually just sit down and do it, it would take him 15 minutes.
The findings of this study would seem to argue against tiger parenting as a good strategy.
From where I stand if they used school time more efficiently they wouldn't need homework. I think it is not my job to do the work the teacher's didn't get time to do. I have enough trouble getting other stuff done.
BINGO. I really don't think that "homework" is justifiable at all below the high school level.
I know of local kindergarten students who have an hour or more a night.
(Truly)
My school district has been trying to lower the amount of homework at all levels including H.S. and to insist that certain weekends (often long weekends) are homework "free". They have done extensive study of this issue and the situation has improved particularly in the elementary the past few years.
BUT and here is the big BUT..
Honors and AP Classes (particular AP classes) don't have to follow these homework rules. Because those classes are optional and only for those who can work at that level. Of course it's those kids that had and still have the insane homework loads.
BINGO. I really don't think that "homework" is justifiable at all below the high school level.
I know of local kindergarten students who have an hour or more a night.
(Truly)
An hour of K homework a night seems quite excessive.
My kids had a homework packet in K handed out Monday due Friday. Average kids took about an hour a week to do the package. The work was broken in work for each day, but many kids just sat down and completed the whole thing on Monday. Much of it was handwriting practice. I realized that K homework was primary used for two reasons. First is to get the kids into the "habit" of doing homework. Second is it keeps the parents in the loop of their child's ability better than just sending home reports. K homework was expected to be supervised, and parents who watch/help their kids with these assignments are much more aware of their child's strengths and weaknesses.
As to homework before H.S. I think they need to have some, if only to teach the kids the study habits before grades matter so much. Teaching kids how to manage their time, keep track of homework and is a skill that doesn't come naturally to all kids. Doesn't mean they kids need to be buried in busywork.
As to homework before H.S. I think they need to have some, if only to teach the kids the study habits before grades matter so much. Teaching kids how to manage their time, keep track of homework and is a skill that doesn't come naturally to all kids. Doesn't mean they kids need to be buried in busywork.
Why wouldn't they just teach that stuff within school?
Philosophically, I'm highly skeptical of the value of any homework. Parentosophically, I like seeing some to at least satisfy my curiosity and know if DS is getting stuff at a reasonable level.
I find it remarkable how widely the homework load varies among the teachers at my son's school. The science teacher doesn't believe in homework for middle schoolers and very rarely gives it. My son has learned more in her class than in his other classes combined this year. It is amazing how much learning she packs into her time with them.
Then there is the English teacher. He spends the entire time doing next to nothing. But he expected them to do NaNoWriMo in November--which was two hours every night (every single night including weekends!) just for English for that month.
We are homeschooling math this year, but last year when we didn't, you could count on an hour each night. For some reason the lecture took the entire class period and the teacher never had the kids do practice problems in class--so it would come home and my son had no idea how to do the problems because he had never actually done them before--it would take me 5 minutes to explain and have him do a problem on his own and then he was good to go. Now why couldn't the teacher do it that way?
Foreign language seems to be the only place where the homework is consistent, manageable, and purposeful. He gets maybe 10-20 minutes each night.
The thing that really bothers me is that his school "academizes" art and electives. There is homework every night in art, and it frequently involves *writing* of all things. Really? And the elective my son is taking this semester has several hours of homework each week even though school policy is not to have homework in electives. I don't understand why they can't get this stuff done in class.
And to top it off, the school imposes requirements on nonschool time. Kids are required to participate in a certain number of hours of after school activities and community service.
This is for 8th grade, BTW.
I agree with HowlerKarma that teachers might not know how long it will take a novice with lower that adult level processing speed to do what they assign. I've found as a homeschooler that for most assignments it will take my kids 2-4 times longer than it takes me to do the same amount of work.
I also agree with puffin that teachers aren't using class time efficiently. It's just easier to mess around in class and have the parents enforce the real learning. At least that's how it looks to me.
As to homework before H.S. I think they need to have some, if only to teach the kids the study habits before grades matter so much. Teaching kids how to manage their time, keep track of homework and is a skill that doesn't come naturally to all kids. Doesn't mean they kids need to be buried in busywork.
Why wouldn't they just teach that stuff within school?
Philosophically, I'm highly skeptical of the value of any homework. Parentosophically, I like seeing some to at least satisfy my curiosity and know if DS is getting stuff at a reasonable level.
This could be taught in class if there was study hall or free work time where a student gets to choose what they are working on at a particular time. Not something my schools have a lot of. I don't see going from no homework in 8th grade to up to 2 hours of homework a night as a freshman in H.S. a good game plan. There is something to adding these skills in gradually.
I actually mean just teaching it as a skill with real instruction. Sending busy homework home with the idea that all kids will learn a technique or habit of it doesn't jive with me. In the same way claiming that gifted kids doing on level work is teaching discipline is just phoning it in.
Right. Character education is the job of mom and dad-- skill development, now THAT is the job of the school.
What I am trying to say is not all homework equals busywork.
I do think many teachers & many schools assign too much busy work, not just as homework but in class. One of the reasons I send my son to school is because I believe he gets a lot out of the class discussions, group projects and debates held during class time. I'd rather see DS's literature book read at home than sitting in class.
'd rather see DS's literature book read at home than sitting in class.
DD's literature book is read only in class, aloud - occasionally by students reading paragraphs aloud, but more often by following along to an audiobook.
Really makes me wonder. Really? 6th grade? At what point is it reasonable to expect kids to be responsible for reading the darn chapter???
And then I get to spend my time at home teaching her the meaning of 'theme' as applied to literature, because they don't have time in class before the 'theme' assignment is due.
Yes, but at a reasonable level, right? I mean, a ten year old shouldn't be expected to do 2 hours of reading nightly for homework. If it does take that long, I think that indicates a poor placement or totally irrational expectations. It's hard to say which is which, and all of us here probably struggle with the fact that the yardstick here is totally skewed when your kid is HG+.
My DD can (and has) read hundreds of pages of material in a few hours, and most people (never mind agemates) cannot. On the other hand, I can almost certainly guarantee that a series of relatively simple, but repetitive homework questions that really aren't TEACHING her anything would take a very... very... long time.
When I hear stories from other parents about their kids needing 2hr NIGHTLY to keep up with the reading demands in some high school courses (AP, usually), though, I do have to wonder if they have a class with THAT much reading? Or is it that their child probably finds the course placement a bit much? I simply don't know. But in any event, my DD doesn't seem to need even a fraction of the time to keep up, and I'm equally convinced that I'd not sign her up for that kind of time commitment given the opportunity cost.
"Reasonable" to me means spending 5-7 hours a WEEK combined-- doing things like reading a primary source for a class discussion, collecting material for a research paper, producing a draft of an essay, working through math problems that ask a student to synthesize information already learned in class... that kind of thing.
Granted. But the amount of reading that can be covered by an audiobook in a 40-minute class period seems reasonable for middle schoolers. Then they could go on to actually DISCUSSING the material, if they could assume most of the kids had read it.
I see your point: they shouldn't be expected to complete 40 minutes of assigned reading in one class every single day, since they also have other classes. It does seem to me that assigning reading to be done at home once or twice a week is reasonable, though; why should reading always be done in class and writing always at home? The kids aren't even allowed to bring the books home for reference; we have to check them out of the city library, or buy them because other classmates got to the library first.
Right-- an audiobook selection, 40 minutes, that's roughly 10 pages, yes? That seems quite modest in ANYONE's estimation. Shouldn't that take 20 minutes or less?
Else I'd argue that the reading level is wrong for the student-- assuming, (as noted originally) that there isn't an LD getting in the way of reading text, and in that case, text-to-speech ought to be available as an accommodation for students as they work at home.
When I hear stories from other parents about their kids needing 2hr NIGHTLY to keep up with the reading demands in some high school courses (AP, usually), though, I do have to wonder if they have a class with THAT much reading? Or is it that their child probably finds the course placement a bit much? I simply don't know. But in any event, my DD doesn't seem to need even a fraction of the time to keep up, and I'm equally convinced that I'd not sign her up for that kind of time commitment given the opportunity cost.
APUS at my kids H.S. is requires that the students read 8-10 college level books over the course of the year as well as the textbook. Detailed outlines are expected to be written along with each chapter in the textbook, so it's not a fast read. There are additional essays and newspaper articles assigned. I guess it depends on how fast the studnet reads, and how well they comprehend the reading. Admission to the class is very selective so most of these kids are very good readers/writers and these kids still find themselves doing 8-10 hours of homework for this class a week.
Had to laugh (or cry) at the idea of TWO hours of homework. DDs physics teacher gave them two practice AP exams, a new chapter, and an analysis problem set (36 problems on radioactivity) yesterday. Due the next morning. Just for the one class mind you. DD has six others. Adding it up, each AP test should take 3 hours (if you practice timing); at 3 minutes per problem, the problem set should only take about an hour and 45 minutes. Total for one class= SEVEN HOURS and FORTY FIVE minutes. This is the normal homework load from this teacher every day, including weekends and breaks. Admittedly, DD is faster than this--but there are those other six classes.
Rant off. Sorry for shouting. Little frustrated by all the homework.
Fun read about homework:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/my-daughters-homework-is-killing-me/309514/3/
Personally, I would complain about a workload like that. Are they trying to burn these kids out before they even start college?
Wow. That seems... oh, what's the polite way of putting this?
Oh, the heck with it--
that seems
delusional. I didn't expect that kind of time from
college juniors. Because, see, I had sufficiently strong math skills to understand that if
I had an expectation that should take
me an hour, I could triple it for the median of the students in my class-- maybe quadruple for the lower-division students. So if it took me two hours to write up detailed solutions for a homework set? (Which I did do each week-- problems were
de novo and therefore, until I made them up, there WERE no "solutions" to be had).
I expected that students, even working in a group, would require about six to eight hours of concerted effort on that homework set. Then add in writing up a lab (another two hours), reading for class (another two hours), and we're at a grand total of about 10-12 hours weekly for my class alone, not including the occasional speed bump or the term project, which required some additional outside-of-class time, and which I therefore attempted to push to a week where most faculty did NOT have a major assignment due...
To have even that kind of expectation of a high school student is delusional. My only explanation is that the high school teacher apparently isn't bright enough (or aware enough?) to understand that the students in the course have other demands upon their time.
Sorry that you're dealing with that, brilliantcp.
Wow. That seems... oh, what's the polite way of putting this?
Oh, the heck with it--
that seems delusional. I didn't expect that kind of time from college juniors.
Some of these teachers are delusional. And if you can't cut it they just say you don't belong. That is exactly what goes on in my H.S. I know many VERY brilliant gifted juniors that are pulling all nighters just to finish their homework. Their stress level is over the top. They never get any time to let their hair down and just hang out with friends. There is no way they can possibly do everything all their teachers expect of them. Especially these weeks approaching the AP tests. My guess is this physics teacher realized there is only a few more weeks left and is trying to cram the students with what is left of the book.
Some of these teachers are delusional. And if you can't cut it they just say you don't belong.
Yes.
DD has had several good teachers at this school, but there seem to also be a large number of teachers that think gifted students can just whiz through any amount of homework. I would excuse this (sort of) if the teacher had just started this crazy level of homework in the ramp up to AP testing, but this has gone on all year long. Many of the classes have a high percentage of the grade as homework, so knowing the material is not sufficient.
I think that having all the homework online might contribute to the crazy amounts from this teacher. Although the teacher may have to put the assignment together, it is all graded by the homework website for classes like physics. When the homework is a ready made unit like a practice AP test or chapter review it may seem smaller than it really is--the teacher can just post and the system takes care of it.
Less understandable are the teachers that assign three five page essays over the weekend. I can't even imagine reading 90+ five page essays from DD's class of 30 students. The only up side is that DD can now really crank out a five page essay. Any topic, any subject, any number of facts thrown in for one low price...
Other parents and myself, we've speculated that part of the problem is that there are teachers who simply haven't gone to the trouble to add it all up-- not really. So they THINK that they know what it is that they're assigning, but in pragmatic terms, they haven't really thought it through.
Most of my DD's teachers don't DO the work that their students are asked to do-- for the precise reason that brilliantcp notes-- it's autograded, and they don't really "handle" it other than as a-- well, a "facilitator" I think is how many of them see themselves at this juncture.
In an online school setting, this is somewhat more defensible than in a brick-and-mortar one, I have to say.
I can imagine reading that kind of volume because it was my lot pretty much every term-- at the end of finals week, when I had as little as 36 hours to get through it all before submitting grades. I surely wouldn't have signed myself up for it otherwise, though.
Here's the problem that I have noticed among my DD's cohort, though-- there are too many classmates whose ONLY hope of passing the AP class is to do it with volume rather than quality... ergo, volume and the willingness/ability to shoulder super-human AMOUNTS of work is the route to a good grade. The classes themselves now no longer revolve around "rigor" in the authentic sense, but around Rigor in the FAUX sense-- and with it, a crazy amount of busywork, studded with authentic assignments.
I'm glad that DD doesn't have to turn in her stupid outlines or do dozens of nightly math problems. She just takes assessments, and has to KNOW the material for them, and has to produce quality writing (though we see some of the same things in the writing assignments-- too many of them, and most of them encouraging nothing more than buzzword bingo or blather).
Here's the problem that I have noticed among my DD's cohort, though-- there are too many classmates whose ONLY hope of passing the AP class is to do it with volume rather than quality... ergo, volume and the willingness/ability to shoulder super-human AMOUNTS of work is the route to a good grade. The classes themselves now no longer revolve around "rigor" in the authentic sense, but around Rigor in the FAUX sense-- and with it, a crazy amount of busywork, studded with authentic assignments.
And therein lies my primary objection to AP classes - I can see this only getting worse as more political sows' ears are inflated into silk purses.
Less understandable are the teachers that assign three five page essays over the weekend. I can't even imagine reading 90+ five page essays from DD's class of 30 students. The only up side is that DD can now really crank out a five page essay. Any topic, any subject, any number of facts thrown in for one low price...
And this is why my DS15, a freshman, won't be taking APUSH next year. Its the only AP offered to sophomores and it's one of these killer classes. He just can't crank out essays at the speed they are asking. He can write a good essay, he just can't do it fast enough. And his teachers know it so he won't be accepted. Honestly, I'm glad since he hates having to write detailed outlines of the text book, and APUSH requires them to do that. He is the type of kid who can read the text book once and then ace the test and doesn't see the use of all this outlining and copying. He will be frustrated and bored next year in regular US History, but it's going to keep him from getting overloaded. I hope honors science, pre-calc, and marching band will help keep it tolerable.
And what is ridiculous is that all that outlining isn't required in a REAL college class. My college world history class (a freshman class) was here is the text book, here are the lectures in a two hundred student auditorium, write one term paper on THe Man for All Seasons, take three exams....half the exam was made up of multiple choice question and half the exam were short essays.
Find the busy work in that class....none...in the syllabus he had listed extra reading for those who wanted additional reading...but that was optional. That is what a real college class is like...sink or swim on three exams and a paper...not outline the crap out of two textbooks and additional readings and do hours of made up assignments of homework each night.
I read the textbook ahead of each lecture, took notes in class, I tended to rewrite my notes each night with the textbook open to that chapter and worked on my term paper a little each weekend. Easy.
To let students skip unnecessary work in an AP class, you could factor in AP exam scores into class grades, either in a linear way
class_grade = w1*AP_exam_score + w2*coursework_grade
or in a nonlinear way
class_grade = max(AP_exam_score,coursework_grade)
where a student who does not do all the coursework but still gets a 5 on the AP exam gets an A for the course. Teachers may not welcome grading systems that reduce their control.
Except that AP scores don't come back until July, so this really wouldn't work for seniors. Though I do agree that the test score is probably a better indicator of mastery of material than the course grade.
And what is ridiculous is that all that outlining isn't required in a REAL college class. My college world history class (a freshman class) was here is the text book, here are the lectures in a two hundred student auditorium, write one term paper on THe Man for All Seasons, take three exams....half the exam was made up of multiple choice question and half the exam were short essays.
Find the busy work in that class....none...in the syllabus he had listed extra reading for those who wanted additional reading...but that was optional. That is what a real college class is like...sink or swim on three exams and a paper...not outline the crap out of two textbooks and additional readings and do hours of made up assignments of homework each night.
I read the textbook ahead of each lecture, took notes in class, I tended to rewrite my notes each night with the textbook open to that chapter and worked on my term paper a little each weekend. Easy.
This exactly. Requiring outlining the textbook seems to me to be a misguided effort to prepare students for college coursework rather than an attempt to actually imitate it.
class_grade = max(AP_exam_score,coursework_grade)
This is exactly how I got an A in AP history my junior year. I had a B on the basis of the ridiculous tests (because I refused to memorize what color everyone in the textbook illustrations was wearing, and similarly silly "facts" for quizzes). My parents were grumpy at me about the B until I brought home some quizzes to show them. They never said a word after that.
My high score on the test was due to my science/math background, too. We
never discussed things like original sources or research, but I knew about them from my science courses and was able to sound like I knew what I was talking about in essays because of it.
Except that AP scores don't come back until July, so this really wouldn't work for seniors. Though I do agree that the test score is probably a better indicator of mastery of material than the course grade.
And I disagree, having taught in higher ed-- but only because I know full well that different students have very different profiles in assessment-- even those with equal (and thorough) mastery.
Not everyone "tests" well using the same metric-- but that isn't to say that students who have difficulty with the AP test don't know the material well. Some of them, no doubt, could ROCK a term paper on the subject, or, for that matter, an ORAL examination.
That's why college classes are generally reliant upon more than one mode of assessment.
But otherwise, yeah-- I agree with those who find the outlining thing in APUSH to be ridiculous to the point of absurdity. VERY glad that my DD's class doesn't require such nonsense of her. She really is just responsible for knowing the material well-- okay, she does have to do a bunch of more or less meaningless assignments as "filler" in between more meaty demonstrations of mastery... but it's light years better than what her peers in B&M coursework report about the class.
I talked over brilliantcp's report with my DH, and he also just shook his head and asked "what on earth is the point of THAT??"
DD hopes, more than anything else, that college will be vastly different in one respect-- that being the lack of assignments that make her frown, wrinkle her nose, and note with disdain; "Well, this is an enormous waste of time all around."
Yeah, producing a powerpoint, multi-media slide show, or a formulaic essay on some kind of faux synthesis of low-level material from the textbook (as opposed to genuine primary sources) doesn't "teach" much of anything, particularly when it happens in a vacuum. Oh, look at my fancy echo chamber...
Unless college has changed tremendously in the past ten years, I predict that she will at least get that particular wish granted. No more "create a chart that analyzes each character in ________, and select quotes from each scene to illustrate your character's motivations." Yuck-yuck-yuck. I will say, DD has reached the point where she can crank through that kind of thing at a TERRIFIC rate, but I suspect that it's because she has finally concluded that this isn't really a "learning" activity, and that she should treat it as a simple pass-through. She sees herself as some sort of academic medium, I think. Enter the trance, complete the assignment, and snap out of it back to herself. Well, she uses far more colorful language to describe this particular process. LOL.
Pretty sure that would be cheeky if she pointed it out to her teachers, though.
It took me a minute to realize that APUSH stood for AP US History, and wasn't just a derogatory term for AP classes in general.
It took me a minute to realize that APUSH stood for AP US History, and wasn't just a derogatory term for AP classes in general.
LOL. It's way to easy to get in the habit of using these kinds of acronyms.
Despite all our complaints. There are good things about AP Classes. It's just the way SOME teachers/school implement the classes. There are good teachers, my son has H. Biology from the main AP Biology teacher at our school. He doesn't believe in excess homework and he is one of the schools best teachers. And the kids get top grades on the AP.
When I was in H.S. (eons ago now) there were teachers at my school who said that your grade could be improved by the AP exam. A 4 on the test guaranteed a minimum of a B in the class, and a 5 a A. One of my friends improved her grades significantly that way. Alas no more, I know kids who got B's all through H.S. but 5's on every AP taken.
Yes-- no two ways about it, AP courses are by far the best- designed, and largely the best-implemented courses that my DD has had in her school career.
With the possible exception of the Great Courses material that were the basis for the GT literature electives back in middle school.
The assessments are mostly okay-ish-- with a few genuinely stoooooopid entries.
DD earns A's, but doesn't feel like playing the game for A+ grades, and we leave her alone about it. This is her way of compromising on intellectual freedom/honesty with the course expectations.
She also does not take the AP exams-- not that I think she wouldn't do well (because I think she'd earn 5's) but because this isn't why she's in those classes to start with. It's about credentialling, her transcripts, and most of all, least-worst fit academically. Credit and exam scores aren't part of the picture, since we don't care if she gets "credit" at a college-- we'd rather pay for dual enrollment than AP exams.
Yes-- no two ways about it, AP courses are by far the best- designed, and largely the best-implemented courses that my DD has had in her school career.
I don't think they're all well-organized. My eldest enrolled in AP US History through CTY at Hopkins last year, and he dropped it like a hot potato two weeks later. It was 95% based on memorization of factoids assessed through online multiple choice tests. The other 5% of the grade was based on "essays" that had to be written in 40 minutes or less (practice for timed AP exam essays). Instructor time was minimal and was limited to an online chat session once a week or so for an hour or less. Everything came from a canned course CTY had licensed in from some company somewhere, and on top of the $1300 course fee, you had to pay $100 to get access to the course materials. I don't know why people stay in those courses. CTY provides absolutely NOTHING. I wrote to them to complain about it, and they answered by saying that "Our instructors are so great and blah blah blah" and then told me they were looking into licensing in even MORE courses.
That said, the homegrown CTY courses DS took were outstanding. By this, I mean the courses that someone had developed just for CTY (e.g. Crafting the Essay) and/or courses that seemed to be taught only there (e.g. Forensics). There was real interaction with an instructor and meaningful feedback on assignments in those courses.
It took me a minute to realize that APUSH stood for AP US History, and wasn't just a derogatory term for AP classes in general.
It took me about a
year.
ETA: Oldest is in 2nd grade.
This does tend to indicate that extreme parental pushing can be a huge problem. While I am one who believes students should be allowed to take higher level courses that interest them even if its level is outside of their comfort zone, I also agree that a student can be pushed too much.
Four or more hours of homework per night, total not even considering in one class, is too much regardless of age for any student before college. That level indicates a problem somewhere, so the question is whether it is with the student and his/her ability to do the work, with the teacher and his/her ability to manage the class, or with the administrators and their push for homework in the name of "rigor".
On the flip side, I do believe age/ability appropriate homework can teach a great deal, especially in literature and history courses (read outside of class, discussion in). One of the reasons that so many problems arise in connection with homework seems to come from class sizes and the inability of teachers to truly differentiate. So long as parents and the education establishment insist on differentiation within mixed ability classes instead of tracking, then very small classes are a must.
Busy work is never/rarely good, and homework for the sake of homework shouldn't be allowed. But there is some value to practicing skills (penmanship, math facts, etc.) for some students. Again, if the classes are manageable, then the teacher can tailor the lesson plans AND homework assignments to each child.
I also must say that I'm happier with my son's school after reading this thread. They might not have provided the challenge and differentiation promised and needed, but they also have required very little homework. In Kindergarten, I remember he had 1 or 2 very small assignments per *week* and it has slowly increased each year. He has a pretty good teacher this year who is not requiring him to complete the math homework the other kids are doing and he normally finishes the remainder of his homework in school. But even in talking with other parents, I've found very few who are complaining about the amount of homework, though some are complaining about the level of the work. I'm glad his school at least has a few things right!
Yes, but at a reasonable level, right? I mean, a ten year old shouldn't be expected to do 2 hours of reading nightly for homework. If it does take that long, I think that indicates a poor placement or totally irrational expectations. It's hard to say which is which, and all of us here probably struggle with the fact that the yardstick here is totally skewed when your kid is HG+.
My DD can (and has) read hundreds of pages of material in a few hours, and most people (never mind agemates) cannot. On the other hand, I can almost certainly guarantee that a series of relatively simple, but repetitive homework questions that really aren't TEACHING her anything would take a very... very... long time.
When I hear stories from other parents about their kids needing 2hr NIGHTLY to keep up with the reading demands in some high school courses (AP, usually), though, I do have to wonder if they have a class with THAT much reading? Or is it that their child probably finds the course placement a bit much? I simply don't know. But in any event, my DD doesn't seem to need even a fraction of the time to keep up, and I'm equally convinced that I'd not sign her up for that kind of time commitment given the opportunity cost.
"Reasonable" to me means spending 5-7 hours a WEEK combined-- doing things like reading a primary source for a class discussion, collecting material for a research paper, producing a draft of an essay, working through math problems that ask a student to synthesize information already learned in class... that kind of thing.
I agree, and you expressed this much more clearly than I could have.
I also have to say that parents on both sides seem to create some of these problems as well, at least in my area. Many in this thread have already discussed the parental pushers, but I've also seen the parental slackers who get upset with any amount of homework because it interferes with sports and other extra curricular activities. Are their kids *really* spending 4+ hours every night, or are there *some* parents who are exaggerating because it fits their agenda? Don't know, but I do know the slacker group is out there.
I also have to say that parents on both sides seem to create some of these problems as well, at least in my area. Many in this thread have already discussed the parental pushers, but I've also seen the parental slackers who get upset with any amount of homework because it interferes with sports and other extra curricular activities. Are their kids *really* spending 4+ hours every night, or are there *some* parents who are exaggerating because it fits their agenda? Don't know, but I do know the slacker group is out there.
It is very hard to gauge, because the amount of time it takes for one assignment really varies per kid. And many kids have struggle with procrastination and distraction issues even if they don't have ADHD. One of the reasons it would take my son a long time to do homework in elementary school is that I would turn around and he would be doing something else. The easier the assignment the easier it was to get distracted. He has improved as he has gotten older but some of that is from teaching him better habits. He realized himself that unless homework needs his computer he should do it in a different room because the computer is too distracting. Through trial and error we figured out that with my son starting homework early doesn't help, homework fills the entire time allotted. Spent a few very frustrating Sundays in 6th grade, where the whole day was spent on something that should only have taken him 2-3 hours. Silly me.. thought he could get in done in the morning and do something fun in the afternoon. In the early elementary grades I had to sit with him while he did his homework, even though he needed no help.
And second there really are teachers/schools that give too much homework to elementary school kids. Don't get me started on the 26 page state "report" my daughter was supposed to do in 5th grade. It wasn't 26 pages of writing but it was still over the top and I just heard from someone that 10 years later she is still assigning it.
It is very hard to gauge, because the amount of time it takes for one assignment really varies per kid. And many kids have struggle with procrastination and distraction issues even if they don't have ADHD.
I find that when I remove all devices capable of accessing the internet my teenage son's homework miraculously takes far less time. What's so weird is that when I do this, he complains, but he likes the results--like being able to actually relax because it's all done. What a concept.
^ truth.