So, we just had our parent-teacher conference with DS5's K teacher. She is working as hard as she can to differentiate for him in the classroom. But she was basically quite blunt, while also being a lovely, sweet young teacher. What she said was, "He doesn't need to be in kindergarten." I basically found myself politely arguing with her about why we think he should be in K (we had not been looking for a skip).

At the same time, she made it clear that we have little hope of a skip due to the principal at this school. Note that I barely know the principal, so I can't really say anything one way or the other. But it was obvious that she believed it would be nearly impossible. She has also obviously been talking to many other teachers about him, as their opinions were discussed as well.

We have really hesitated over a skip because, as I have said elsewhere, that would mean he would enter the gifted magnet next year, where expectations are quite high. This teacher does not really know what things are like at the magnet because she teaches gen education kids. But she is making it very clear that she feels he does not belong in his assigned grade.

She IS working to send him to 1st for some of the day. Apparently this is not going to be easy, but she feels he needs it. She warned me that the admin does not want to do this and told me we needed to push for it, so I have sent my email. We will see.

I don't know what I am asking for here. I feel a little sad and confused. Basically I have felt like things were okay because this teacher is so great and is trying so hard. (She is buying stuff out of her own pocket for DS!) DS is not unhappy, although we do hear the occasional complaint. But the take-home seemed to be, "This is not enough. He shouldn't be here. But there is no solution that I can really see."

Note--I have no IQ or achievement numbers for DS.

It sounds like she's really trying to help.

Oh, she is! Don't get me wrong. She is wonderful.

So on the one hand, there is my fear that next year's teacher will NOT be amazing like this one. And we KNOW from pre-K that DS can seriously fall apart if school is not working for him.

But on the other hand, skipping does freak me out. My instinct is that DS is a high 130s/low 140s kid. Not DYS. In a different school system I would skip him. But due to where we live, our kids do have the option of entering into a self-contained completely GT/accelerated system for the rest of their school years starting in grade 2. The level of work is not necessarily so hard, but the AMOUNT of work is massive. It has been tough on my motivated, hard-working age-appropriate girl with excellent writing skills. Developmentally, it really might be a mistake for him. So, I guess I have been thinking that the risks of skipping outweigh the possible benefits. Then again, I have a teacher basically waving a sign in my face that says SKIP. When does that even happen?

I guess what I really need to do is get him tested and get the IAS. He will be IQ tested at the END of K by the school.

It sounds like she might be reaching the end of what she can do for him. Can you have him tested privately, and then move him to 1st grade mid-year if needed? That would give him more time in the "regular" school program before he entered the gifted program.

Maybe even have him spend most of his day in a first grade classroom before doing it officially to see how it goes? First grade is more challenging even if children know a lot (or all) of the material just because it has a lot more writing and worksheets than K, and of course the reading is at a higher level. One of my sons wouldn't have been ready for a grade skip from K to 2nd based on his writing ability alone, regardless of his knowledge, achievement test scores, or IQ. Even he says he is not ready to skip although he doesn't feel he is learning anything new. (His twin was campaigning for a grade skip this summer and they discussed it with each other a few times.)

I'm sorry - this sounds like a really tough decision.

Interestingly, his writing skills seem to be really impressing her, although I would say that is his weakest area. In fact, she specifically wants to send him to 1st for writing. He has been working on writing stories independently in a story journal, and she told me she has been showing the journal to other teachers. She said they told her he is probably above the level of their most competent 1st graders. I am surprised by this--he still forgets to capitalize sometimes, for instance, and is not always fully legible-- but achievement is relatively low in the gen ed section of the school.

I thought about testing privately but we really don't have the $$ for that right now. It seems a little nutty, given that we know the school will test him this year. But if we could try getting him into 1st more of the time, that could be good. The thing is, there is just such a gulf between the expectations in the gen ed program and the magnet. There is no way around it.

Ultra, what if you send him to 1st now, and then evaluate proper placement with the gifted magnet later? It's hard to plan ahead for a kid like this, but I'd think that getting him what he needs now is a good start.

DeeDee

You mean, possibly send him to 1st now and then 1st again next year?

I HATE the idea of losing this teacher. It seriously makes me want to cry.

My guess is that he'll probably test higher than you think. But even if he doesn't, a child doesn't need to be DYS level to need/warrant a skip or some acceleration.

At any rate, you'll have more information once you have the IQ info and the IAS done. Then you can weigh everything again. Also, one of the biggest components is would your ds want to skip?

I don't know if he would want to skip. I don't think he would understand how to weigh in on that yet.

His sister tested MG, so that is part of why I don't think he will test super-duper high. The full-day gifted program is working for her. Could it be better? Yes, but it is working, and I no longer worry a lot about school for her.


The issue is that the IQ testing will not be done till year end. His teacher seems to be saying that she is feeling like things are just not right for him now...in October. If we can get him to 1st part-time, it may work. The other concern is that she was clearly letting me know that a skip would be a huge fight.

Based on the strength of what the teacher shared, might you request that he be tested early? Having the insight of test scores might help in creating an educational plan with the school.

Being in 1st part-time would also provide him the opportunity to consider the difference in his experiences with the curriculum content of the higher grade, the older kids as classmates/friends, the routine of the day... and reflect on the comfortableness of the "fit".

Can you take advice from gifted school now? Might be worth a phone call?

My DD8 is a high-130s/low-140s kind of kid. She's skipped a year, and she's in a G/T pull-out for most of the school day, in which she's supposed to be working a year ahead of grade level. And it's appropriate for her... she's achieving very well, but not cruising on auto-pilot. We got her report card yesterday, and she actually got two Bs.

Is there a gifted coordinator at your school? If not, who gives the IQ test? Might be worth talking to that person in addition to someone at the magnet school.

Also do some research - look at the average first grade reading level and compare it to your son's. Look at first grade math online, or browse the 1st grade workbooks at the bookstore. Is it work your son can do now? The writing level of many first graders is not very high - some do still reverse letters and numbers and they are just being taught the parts of a sentence. Some already know how to write well, but a lot of them do not, including some of the "gifted" ones.

In our school, the first grade teachers have just finished reviewing the lessons from K, and the "real" first grade work seems to be starting. Your school might be about the same, so your son wouldn't have missed anything.

You do have to consider what will happen next year if you get a teacher who won't differentiate as much as the current teacher. That is an extremely important consideration, and it sounds like doing a skip now would be better than skipping first grade and going right into the magnet school.

I didn't know that about the WISC. DD was tested with the RIAS, but I don't know if that is standard for the district (that school was weird and used its own private tester). It might explain why they typically test at end of K, though. He won't be 6 till early spring.


It is the same school (magnet is a school within a school). But there is no one "in charge" of the magnet other than the regular principal of the whole school. So--same end point.



Oh, I wrote the email. I also told her she should definitely not hesitate to tell us what to do if there are things we should do to help him.


I asked her if he was likely to get the "right" teacher for him next year or if there was anything we could do to get the right placement for him, as she said there IS a teacher that would be a good fit. She sighed and basically said it was a total crapshoot.

He is not difficult (hope that wasn't a snarky bit!) My other child IS difficult, so I can say that. He is the master of the good behavior ticket, in fact. To be perfectly honest, he is at a huge advantage in the system because of this. I often feel bad for my naturally prickly/resistant but big-hearted DD, who gets contrasted to him a lot.

Oh yeah--his reading level tops out around 5th grade or so, perhaps higher. He can read things like Dahl, Indian in the Cupboard, Blume, Cleary, EB White, Narnia, even E. Nesbit and Alice in Wonderland solo, though he often likes to gobble up things like Secrets of Droon. There's no issue there. His teacher has him doing 1st and 2nd grade worksheets in class and for homework (math and reading/LA). Still, I would say writing level is mid 1st grade, no higher.

I can completely understand wanting to keep the teacher - good teachers are worth their weight in gold! How does your son feel about being with peers who are older? The teacher sounds like she is really trying to help and that is HUGE!

Going through something similar with DS5 in kindergarten right now, but he is on the young end of his grade, so I cannot imagine grade-skipping him. He also needs work on his writing, but his reading and math skills are advanced. Teacher is great, but after conferences I am worried they just might not be able to work with him on reading this year. He is at a K-2 school, and honestly, they usually seem reluctant to level a kid above grade 2 in reading anyway (DD attended the same school, and her lexile levels "magically jumped" when she hit the new school at 3rd grade at the 3-5 school). They assessed him as a "Level N" reader (I honestly don't think they usually go higher at this school), but I don't know that they are going to do much with him in terms of reading this year. Right now, he sounds like he is "on his own" in reading, which is just frustrating. We are working with the school on this, but right now, he is on his own.

Just a quick note on writing, when I was trying to understand DS' writing level last year. There are at least two or three completely things meant by writing. There is the physical act, production, spelling part, then there is the intellectual part. In the intellectual part you have complexity, creativity, word use, content all that good stuff.

Sounds like she is the sort of teacher who recognizes this distinction, and it is likely his ideas and content that have caught her attention.

We've had good luck following the lead of a couple of teachers who were advocating and looking out for DS. Whether you are going to get the perfect result, hard to guess, but it seems like you are walking the best possible path at the moment.

Agreed!
Might something be done to expand the selection of available books, to include those of higher levels? This might remove the ceiling so that students may continue to grow. To the degree that some do not see the ceiling, it is a glass ceiling. To increase the pool of books, schools have made wish lists, used scholastic book fairs, obtained donations of used books, and had student-run community book drives. At one school, in response to student food allergies, some children brought a book to donate as an alternative to bringing a food treat.

My DD's is in the same ballpark FSIQ-wise and she is thriving after the skip.

I was very concerned about skipping but I ended up being more concerned about the effects of not skipping. She has always liked school, wasn't bored and teachers generally love her because she has always been enthusiastic about learning.

In kindergarten she showed no issues socially but they became more apparent in 1st and even more so in 2nd grades as her natural curiousity and just fey abilities to absorb knowledge started to make her a bit of an ugly duckling.

So far, I am really happy that we skipped her because she has bloomed (so far) without even breaking stride and the social issues that we had seen appear to have disappeared (touch wood).

Ultramarina, I LOVE what your DS's teacher is doing for your DS and I'm not sure I'd want to move him, either. I'd love for DS to get some similar differentiation. To be fair, though, my parents were both grade-skipped and have periodically mentioned that they HATED it (socially, not academically). So I probably have been over-exposed to negative attitudes about grade-skips!

What you are describing with your DS's writing IS impressive. My DS5 does not have either the fine motor-control, nor has he shown the interest in extensive writing yet. So your DS's writing DOES sound very advanced!

Indigo, you know, at this point what I get is more of a "feeling," about this school's comfort level with advanced readers. I actually would love to go look at the K-2 school library to see what is in there. Although I've always volunteered at the school, I've never had a good reason to be inside the library browsing . Since I frequently take my children to our local public library, the selection of books at the school library is not a huge problem for us. I have often wondered, though, about children whose parents do NOT have time to take them to the library. If the selection is limited of higher level books - that IS a real problem for them.

Last year in 2nd grade at this school, DD was said to have what I though was a VERY conservative lexile level - in fact, I have always though the school GROSSLY underestimated it (but DD just read more difficult books at home anyway), but I am starting to wonder if it wasn't actually because it is a K-2 school and kids aren't "SUPPOSED" to usually have such high lexile levels. This year, at a new grade 3-5 school, DD8 suddenly has a "school declared" lexile range 1100-1275...hmmmmm...she didn't suddenly become a better reader. This lexile seems closer to her actual reading level, though.

So I guess what I should emphasize is that the gifted magnet (which my DD has attended for two years+ now) is essentially equivalent to a 1-year skip, perhaps a bit more. (It is a true GT program in that they only take 130+ kids.) So, in essence, if we skip DS now, he will end up double-skipped, academically (though not socially or age-wise--there, he would be single-skipped). I think skipped kids are virtually nonexistent at the magnet. Basically, skipping him now would mean that we are saying that he needs MORE than a skip. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense and because it is only a one year 'age' skip it sounds tremendous because you will get only the one year age skip but really get a 2 year academic skip. I would give my eye's teeth for the chance to do that for my DD.

My DD should probably skip one more year frankly because she is advanced proficient right out of the gate but it just curls my toes to think of skipping her that much right now and potentially disrupting her social adjustment. I am planning on waiting until 6th grade (middle school) before getting back on the advocacy 'campaign trail' if she is still such a front runner by then for that. In the meantime I am planning on doing stuff with her outside of school just to keep the cognitive juices flowing.

We have a similar situation, but instead of a magnet program, a gifted program starts mid-3rd grade (DD survived screening and is going through the selection process now...it is a LLLOOONNNG process). Since I knew this was coming up, I figured I just needed to be patient, enrich at home (and outside of school at a local gifted center), and look for differentiation wherever possible. The "all leveling out at 3rd grade" myth has not proven to be at all true for us - in fact DD is showing a pattern of staying ahead, while also making rather large learning leaps. This has worked for us, but then again, my kiddos are on the young side of their grades.

It sounds like your magnet program will eventually provide more needed challenge, so I would focus on blazing a path to get him there. Positive, supportive mentors are HUGE along the way (DD was so lucky to get a teacher that really understood her in 1st grade and was so enthusiastic about having a student excited to learn!). It sounds like your son has a special teacher, who will support, challenge, encourage and nurture - such teachers can ignite a passion for learning that blazes for a LONG time!

Makes total sense! And, perhaps it explains why the principal is perceived to be against skipping K, as she understands that would make him double-skipped at an academic level.

Hmm, I'd think, though, that the principal -- since you mentioned s/he is over both gen ed and gifted magnet -- would want to be in on the planning for DS. Any reason to believe s/he wouldn't want to help figure out how best to accommodate him until he gets to the magnet. I'd presume they've had other kids in this situation, whether coming from your bldg or from other schools that feed into the magnet... and that the principal would be aware of options. After all, they should be aware that the need for such differentiation doesn't suddenly begin in 2nd. Good luck!

(And can I add, "Oh, how I wish we had a gifted magnet!")

When my DD had done 6 months of K and was being skipped to the start of yr 1 (she was supposed to do 6 terms of K in our weird system, purely due to being a mid year baby) she went into a 1/2 class were ALL the other girls would be yr2s. Because of this gender issue I was asked (clearly without much thought), if she as steady for yr2. Also without much thought (I had been so unprepared to be asked that) I said "No!". By the end of of yr 1 she totally could have to gone into yr3 and I really regretted saying no, and I still do. She would have had another year of working hard to do well... Writing, particulalry hand writing, was also her weak area and I had no concept of just how far she's come in one year.

I am already wondering what amazing teacher gift to get for this amazing teacher. Seriously, I keep telling her how grateful I am. She is young. It's a reminder that young can be great! But she has also mentioned having a mentor with a special interest in giftedness.

DH brought up, and rightly, that she may be struggling with the balance of doing all she can to keep DS interested and "alive" while also helping the kids in the rest of the class get up to grade level. The gen ed part of school is 90% free/reduced school lunch. Many of these kids need a lot from her. This made me feel bad for her, to think of it this way. No wonder she wants him to go elsewhere for instruction some of the time.


To be 100% honest, the magnet is about 1/4 of the school and I don't believe it's where the principal's heart lies. There are bigger fish to fry.

Weirdly, there is no head gifted honcho at the school. It's just the teachers and the principal.

Oh how I wish their was an affordable gifted anything.

Yeah, we are very lucky, and we realize it (though the gifted school has a few issues-very heavy workload, emphasis placed on competition, and, actually, no differentiation within the gifted track). K-1 is tricky, though, as can be seen here. DD9 had a totally different K-1 experience at a much more advantaged school, and ironically no one tried to differentiate for her or help her there really at all. So this has been pretty interesting.

Take a deep breath and step back. I don't mean to be prejudiced but remember this is a young teacher who has only teached general ed. It's wonderful that she is trying so hard but it does not appear that she has seen very much. In my experience over the years with my own three children, this teacher's perspective may be colored by her lack of teaching experience and lack of a long-standing relationship with the adminstration.

I think it is perfectly fine to take the long view. To borrow a term from economics, consider taking the present value approach - today is worth more but the future is worth something too. There can be a huge difference between general ed classrom and gifted ed classroom. However, you know your own DS and you know the acceptable parameters for him/you. Do you think that he will likely be where you/he would want to be abilities-wise in the 2nd grade GT classroom next August?

I am somewhat troubled by her message that "he shouldn't be here" because based on my experience, it actually was easier for my three children's teachers to differentiate in K than in the higher grades. Assuming your DS is at the extreme end of the right tail abilities-wise, I don't think that sending him to first grade would improve his situation much unless the first grade teacher is far more experienced and able to differentiate far beyond the K teacher who is working hard and going above and beyond.

These are just random thoughts and not meant to persuade you one way or the other. It may be that your DS should be skipped and the 2nd grade GT classroom will be easy for him come August, but the timing of the skip would still need to be weighed.

I truly don't know.

We have the advantage of having an older child who has been through the program. However, she came in at the top of the class and has remained there. She has had straight As every quarter. I don't really know the full extent of of the range of other children's abilities. In other words, I don't know how far below her skills he could be and still be doing fine. I think quite a bit. For whatever it's worth, she is constantly saying to us how he should be skipped, despite the fact that she has quite a lot of jealousy issues with him.

Really, my two concerns would be 1) workload and 2) writing. Also, looking ahead to the future, I wonder if a skip is wise for an MG/HG child (probably) who will also be accelerated from gr 2 on.

I glean that the main reason she is saying "He shouldn't be here" is that it is kind of killing her to see him sitting through the group lessons. However, there was also some talk from her about how he is not really a child who can really be accommodated well at this point in any case. (This did not upset me. I agree. What do I really think they should do to instruct my 5yo who can read at the 5th grade level in reading, in a class of other 5yos? Yeah, it's very tricky.)

I do take your point about her youth and experience level, though. I really do. My husband and I are really leaning against trying for a skip but for advocating as much as we can for him to travel to other classrooms for instruction. Maybe we can market it as "Instead of a skip, we are asking for..."

It is such a tough call. Grade acceleration is a great option for so many students, and should be available to all. However, it is not always the right option for a particular student.

And I agree with Quantum about taking a step back. You have a lot of time to decide. Grade acceleration can be complicated for young boys who may not be ready developmentally, even if they have the IQ for it. He will also end up being one of the youngest in the class, which may be difficult once he reaches high school.

Hopefully, you can get him tested and get some good advice about his readiness for any changes before making a decision based on one teacher's recommendations. Trust your instincts, though. You know him better than anyone. Good luck.

Gail Post/ www.giftedchallenges.com

Good luck with this, Ultra. I would just keep in mind what goals you have for your DS this year. Is one of them that he be taught reading at a 5th grade level? Having DD's reading evaluated by her teacher really made it clear that reading instruction is just not needed. We are not worried because we still read to her every day, and she reads on her own for an hour a night.

It sounds like you like this teacher and DS is happy. Don't let her throw her hands up. Keep working with her, i.e open-ended projects, differentiation, self-extention.

I might look into skipping into 2nd grade general ed next year, and then moving into either 2nd grade gifted or 3rd grade gifted after that. That will give you some time to figure everything out.

Until then, it sounds like your DS is having fun. He is allowed to read at his level, explore math concepts, and is challenged by the chess club. This is all really great.

And, it sounds like you have a great advocate in his teacher. But, she is young. She may have a lot of enthusiasm and eagerness, but not a lot of experience. DD's teachers have not even batted an eye. They have seen this before many times and have seen success with their techniques. We are all just committed to making this work and making it as normal as possible for DD.

This is actually a pretty good idea and one I hadn't considered, for some reason. Or, he could at least do part-time in 2nd grade gen ed.

I'm updating here because emails to the "next level up" (a couneslor/academic advisor type of person) about moving DS to the 1st grade class for some of the day received zero response. Disappointing. I emailed DS's teacher and she let me know that she has worked things out with a receptive first-grade teacher and that as far as they are concerned, DS is good to go. They just need permission from the higher ups, so she is now meeting with the principal. We'll see.

For now, we have skipping on the back burner with the idea that we will reconsider it at year's end. DS is complaining a little about group instruction but gets a lot of individualized work.

Update: The principal wants to meet with us personally "to discuss DS's academic skills." His teacher will also attend. Teacher is 100% in our corner. Principal may not be at all. She did not green light the proposal from the teacher without a meeting, anyway.

Thoughts on how to prepare?