Hello,

People (doctors/teachers) have always told us that our son was quite smart and I guess we have always thought he picked things up quite easily. His school wanted us to have him tested, but I didn't want them to put him in a box, so we privately had it done. The results are very mixed (some very superior and some that seem very average) and I really don't fully understand where we should go from here. We are novice parents and have not really done anything to help him. I would appreciate any advice on how we could help him, what should we say to his school etc? Also, there is a school that is more academic than his current school, but requires him to do an entrance exam. Should someone with such mixed results do such an exam and go to an academic school?

Subtests Percentile Rank
Similarities 98
Vocabulary 75
Comprehension 37

Block design 91
picture concepts 99
matrix reasoning 95

digit span 84
letter-number
sequencing 99

coding 50
symbol search 63

Thank you! Any advice would be extremely appreciated.

Hi happykids. Welcome.
I thought I'd bump this up a bit and hope that someone knowledgeable can reply. This seems to be an unusual profile; you are right to spend some time understanding the scores. Do you have the raw scores for each section? What did the tester tell you about his profile?

You may have more luck posting in the Identification, Assessment forum.

Your son's scores are quite good. How old is he and what grade? There are many people here that can give you a more accurate idea of what they all mean in terms of gifted especially if you have raw or scaled scores.

Do you know what the entrance exam is that he will need to take to go to the more academic school?

I'm not a testing expert, although I definitely think scores can be really useful in helping to figure out how a child learns.

Two things I would want to consider are 1) What was the testing enviroment and tester like? and 2) What has your DS's school experience been like thus far?

I know from excerpts I read in the WISC manual, there is at least one condition associated with that score pattern. In particular you are looking at overall high scores with a peak in perceptual reasoning. The coding and symbol search low seems common enough as they have a weaker association with general intelligence. The comprehension low could be a bad match with the tester, a kid too creative, or... Taken all together, if you have additionally have existing concerns with social skills and other unexpected idiosyncrasies, you could talk to someone about screening for autism spectrum. But not from the test alone. The tester should also have included observations in their test results.

What led to the school suggesting testing? Was he referred for testing for a gifted program or id, or was the school requesting testing because they were concerned about something? What type of "box" were you concerned about the school putting him in - was it a gifted label or a different kind of label?


What to do and what to say to the school etc is going to depend partially on understanding what the test results mean in and of themselves, and then putting that into context of why you had your ds tested. The first important piece of information is to ask the tester (if it's not mentioned in the testing report or if you haven't already had a conversation about it) - what was the tester's perception of your ds' mood/responsiveness/etc during testing, and what order were the tests given in. Does the tester think there are any reasons the lower subtest scores might be artificially low?

Next step is to google WISC-IV + subtest descriptions and read through each, so that you understand how the questions were ask (verbal, written etc), what the specific type of question was for each subtest, and what type of response was required (verbal/written/etc). Then look for patterns in the low scoring tests and also think through whether or not the lower scores correlate with anything you've seen in your ds' schoolwork.

Just out of curiousity - did you have any type of achievement testing done at the same time as the WISC?

Once you have a good understanding of your ds' scores, what each subtest measures, and whether or not you believe the score is accurate - the next step is to decide - what are your goals? Do you want to advocate for more challenge at school? Is there an issue you need to address? Is there a program you want him considered for? etc. After making your list of goals, research what you need to do in order to make them happen, then go back through the test to see how you can use it in advocating for those goals.


There's really no way to know based on one IQ test, even if you are confident that the results accurately reflect your ds' abilities. There are so many different factors that go into whether a child is going to perform well in any given school - child's personality, motivation, abilities, school's philosophy, curriculum, structure, teacher's style, caring, all sorts of things. I wouldn't discount any school based on the IQ test - unless you know upfront that the school requires a specific minimum FSIQ or GAI on the WISC to be admitted. I'd suggest talking to other parents who have children enrolled at the school, learn as much as you can about the school, go on a school tour, see how it seems to mesh with what you think would be a good learning environment for your ds.

If you do determine from analyzing the WISC that your ds has a weakness in an area that impacts a certain type of academics, that doesn't mean your ds won't be successful in an academically challenging program, but it does most likely mean you need to understand the impact of the challenge and also seek out help with either remediation or accommodations (or both).

Best wishes,

polarbear

@Zen

Do you mind sharing what condition is associated with this pattern? My 7 yo dd has a similar pattern, high PRI, lower VCI, high WMI, and average PSI.

Hi Happykids,

DD recently did the WISC IV for entrance to the Toronto gifted program, since we are moving this summer. And her scores diverged. But she had done the WPPSI 3 years ago and I could compare and there is stuff going on with her.

I think there is so much that can be going on. I think taking the test for the academic school will tell you if it is a fit. If he does well, then perhaps that tells you it would work for him.

I am finding each child is a blend of so much and you nurture as much as you can so that your child can find his/her own path. My daughter best talent is piano. She did a composer concert in NYC last spring and her teacher, of gifted piano students, wanted her to compete in the American Protoge this year. But that didn't work for her. She is focusing on dance and most would say she would never be good enough to be a professional ballet dancer (though could survive as a professional jazz dancer) but I am not expecting her to be a dancer. This is what she has chosen. I just provide the options.

My suggestion, give your son the option. Take the test.

Ren

Hi mountainmom,
I tucked it in at the end. Autism spectrum. But it isn't low VCI overall, in the subtests it is higher similarities and vocabulary combined with low comprehension. That's combined with the other higher scores and lower PSI. I ran across it in the WISC manual, but here is similar referenced through NIH: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21638108

But it's a profile; so, I don't know that it is diagnostic particularly at the higher end of things.

Thanks Zen.

The subtest profile you described doesn't fit my dd. Her results were:

Similarities 13
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 14

There really is no scatter there.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I spoke briefly with the tester on the phone after I submitted this and she said that she she didn't know what happened with the comprehension. She has known him for a couple of years and couldn't quite understand why he wasn't getting the comprehension answers right. We were surprised too. He always seems to be able to comprehend books etc. She is a doctor of physchology and has done thousands of these tests and was unconcerned with the processing speed subsets because she said that this can sometimes in children with high intellectual potential.

Re mood/behaviour: His test behaviour was consistent and he sustained focus and exerted substantial effort on what was achieveable. He was quick to surrender on items that were not immediately apparent to him. Perhaps suggesting he is a perfectionist (all or nothing approach to academic challenges).

My son is 7 and in year 2. We have never had any concerns with Autism but were more concerned with ADHD as a small child because his mind and body were constantly on the move. As he has matured, this all seems to have settled. This is how we originally met the tester.

He has been at the same school for three years. He is young for his year, but has always academically been fine (picks things up quickly, never struggling, but just average to above average) and has a big personality. While academics have been fine, the teacher called me earlier this year to say that she felt he was bright and wasn't achieving his potential and that he was too laid back in class. She put him next to the brightest boy in the class and they are doing the same work. They have had testing done on four of the children in the year and have now pulled them out to attend extended maths classes. She wanted testing to back her up in being able to send our son. I don't know whether these are good enough to send him.

We didn't have any achievement testing done.

Re box: I was/am concerned that they will look at this and every report going forward will be poor for comprehension and good for the things that came up strongly (not that I fully understand what that is yet). Rather than using this to tap in and unleash potential and identify and areas to help him with. I am concerned that each new teacher will look at this report and have a preconceived view of his potential and lack of in some areas.

Happykids the Comprehension subtest is not reading comprehension - the questions are more about social/moral reasoning. Which is why suppressed Comprehension with other verbal areas strong can be indicative of a spectrum disorder. There was someone on this board who recently posted about her child answering these questions wildly incorrectly due to a misconception about what the tester wanted from her. You'd really want to have other signs or concerns before getting hung up on whether one suppressed subtest in the WISC results indicate anything too worrisome.

The PRI is, roughly speaking, thought to align more with mathematical thinking and we was very strong there. Strong working memory is going to help there too.