I'm so glad to have found this forum.

We have two intensely wonderful sons, 8 3/4 (thank you very much) and 6. We live in a small town which has very limited options for public education. Our older son has always been a self-directed learner, with little patience for rote or repitition and 2 days after the Spring semester when he told me "mom, I can't do (2nd grade) any more" we pulled him out to homeschool/alternative school 25 miles away.

He's reading at the 12 grade level whatever that means, and in May did a NWEA MAP test that placed him solidly in 8th grade math. We've been asked if he has a photographic memory, but I just think he remembers stuff. He's usually a contented person who thinks all the time.

He has been so much happier at home and his dad is his absolute best teacher, but of course I wonder if we're providing ENOUGH stuff for him.

Our 6 year old is a totally different child than his brother of course, just as intense but in a different way. Kindergarten was just boring for him.

So, here we are!

Welcome! This is a nice place to share all our experiences. There are getting to be more and more homeschoolers here, too. Many others, myself included, do afterschooling or enrichment to keep the kids happy.

Hi, Barbara,

We pulled our DS8 out of second grade, too, although he's nowhere as advanced academically as your DS. But he's happy again and we're looking forward to HSing this fall.

Welcome, and good luck!

Welcome Barbara!

Hi! Welcome!

We have a DS7 who is HG+ and is homeschooled. We pulled him out of public school in late Sept. of 1st grade for "emergency homeschooling." He came home the first day of 1st grade--this boy who had loved 2 years of pre-K and a year of half-day K--threw his backpack down and said, "I'm NOT going back! And if you MAKE me go back, I'm NOT going to 2nd grade because it will be even LONGER and more BORING!"

So that was last year. We looked at other options for this year and chose to HS again. For us it has been the solution to a problem more than a philosophical choice. But whatever! It's working!

We also have a DS4, and I don't know what he is yet...I know what you mean about different but intense! If it were possible to be GT only in terms of the emotional intensity, that would be what I'd think DS4 is. We're in wait-and-see mode with him, and he's in pre-K now. It's good for him to have time to be without big brother. He'll go to K next year, we'll request testing by the school, and then we'll see if public school is for him or if we'll be a homeschooling family.

Anyway, there are lots of HSers here, and this is one of the few places I've found where HSers and school families really share and support one another's choices. It's wonderful and friendly and positive and a great place! So welcome!

Hi Barbara!

I too have 2 gt boys, one soon to be 6 year old and 4 year old. We will homeschool the older one next year. My two are also very different.

Your older one sounds like a very gifted child. Have you looked into Davidson Young Scholar program? It provides lots of support and if you are lucky you may find similar children within a reasonable driving distance.

oh thank you all so much for the warm welcome. I'm sure you know the feeling of wanting to share details of our life but not trying to compare. Sigh.

The 8th grade math stuff did really blow me away though, even if I'm not sure what 8th grade math IS or OUGHT to be. Especially in retrospect when after the test he said "mom, that was really fun!"

oh all right since I can I'll share another comment he made when he was 6. On his way to soccer practice he looked at me and said "mom, what if everything is just a dream, if you make up everything inside your head?" and the next day I could see him trying to influence events - and being somewhat disappointed. He was also a little bummed to find out he wasn't the first to think of the idea!

Clearly you are in the right place.

Welcome

Hi Barbara,

Great question from your son. I remember going through the same phase.

You might look into Lucid Dreaming.

In addition, the Australian Abos have a lot of wonderful legends around it that your son would love.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime

And he will love this book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Livingston_Seagull

I gave my salutatorian speech back in high school about JLS, Austin! I used to love that book! The title was "Paradigms," as I recall.

(I remember because one of my dad's friends learned the word from my speech. Then a year or so later, he was quoting my speech back to my dad, not remembering where he had heard it from. I was so proud! After all, who remembers graduation speeches? I felt like a HUGE success! I hadn't thought about that in years...)

I wonder what I'd think of the book now...

Anyway, good book rec for a kid that age!

I took it as abstract concept thought along the lines of existentialism, as:

"Existentialism tends to focus on the question of human existence and the conditions of this existence."
-Wikipedia

Yes, very philosophical. Though existentialism tends to assume existence: "I exist, so now what?" is how I always thought of it. It sounds like he's going back before that.

He might like Descartes, the philosopher best known for "cogito ergo sum," or "I think, therefore I exist." But his efforts to work out the seat of the soul would probably be very interesting for a young philosopher. Easy to criticize, fun to consider.

There is a really cool book called "Sophie's World" that is an interesting fictional look at different philosophers. I read it in college, but I think the story makes philosophy very approachable.

Yes, Kriston good point. I was thinking more along the lines of Camus:

"Camus' ideas on the Absurd
In his essays Camus presented the reader with dualisms: happiness and sadness, dark and light, life and death, etc. His aim was to emphasize the fact that happiness is fleeting and that the human condition is one of mortality. He did this not to be morbid, but to reflect a greater appreciation for life and happiness. In Le Mythe, this dualism becomes a paradox: We value our lives and existence so greatly, but at the same time we know we will eventually die, and ultimately our endeavours are meaningless. While we can live with a dualism (I can accept periods of unhappiness, because I know I will also experience happiness to come), we cannot live with the paradox (I think my life is of great importance, but I also think it is meaningless). In Le Mythe, Camus was interested in how we experience the Absurd and how we live with it. Our life must have meaning for us to value it. If we accept that life has no meaning and therefore no value, should we kill ourselves?"


HOWEVER,

"What still had meaning for Camus is that despite humans being subjects in an indifferent and "absurd" universe, in which meaning is challenged by the fact that we all die, meaning can be created, however provisionally and unstably, by our own decisions and interpretations."
-Wikipedia



Camus is considered within the realm of existentialist, although he had stated that he is not. The connection lies within the idea of reality as perception that is fluid and everchanging-Dreamlike, if you will!

So maybe what I saw was some complex existential anxiety coming through the questioning of -is the dream the life or is the life the dream- of course I'm paraphrasing what the young man said, I could be way off.

In any event, it's pretty clear that I need to get a life!

And I wouldn't recommend existentialism or nihilism to that age group!

Nah, you're making my day! I LOVE philosophy. Camus especially! Thanks for that!

It's a shame there's no money in philosophy. I would have loved to just sit around and think all day for pay. I guess writing is the next best thing, right?

Well, we could go for the PhD. and teach college level.
My favorite class in college was political philosophy.

I've been rereading all the books that really struck me as a kid. Many still resonate. JLS is one.

Nah, been there, done that, got the T-shirt and left. The whole Ivory Tower idea has lost its allure for me!

Thanks, Austin. I'll have to pick it up again. Maybe DS7 and I can read it together. I wonder what he'd think of it. It's such an uplifting book!

Another fun discussion. I love it when I check in and discover these great conversations are going on!

In case there are any more budding philosophers out there (parents or kids!) you might be interested in www.AskPhilosophers.org. It's staffed by a bunch of real-life philosophers, and they'll answer pretty much any philosophically relevant question. Some of the responses are really terrific. I'm pretty certain that the dream question would elicit a reference to Descartes' Meditations, and the ensuing 350 years of literature on skepticism about the external world. Probably somebody would mention The Matrix, too. A pity that's probably not appropriate for Barbara's DS8.75, but the 17 and over crowd can certainly enjoy it!

BB

OH I like the way you think! I've been sitting here thinking about the Matrix because of this discussion.

Here's a window into my twisted mind:

Would sitting in a chair with my head plugged into the grid really be such a bad thing? Yes, my butt would get even bigger due to the inactivity, but in my reality my butt would not be big and I'm sure I would be at least 25 pounds lighter.

ROFL! Plug me into that matrix please.

'Neato,

Robert Nozick, one of the very important philosophers of the late 20th c., discusses this kind of example in some depth. He considers whether it would be such a bad thing to hook yourself up to an "experience machine", a futuristic device that gives you whatever pleasurable or desirable experiences you'd like. He wonders whether we would really choose such an existence over real life, and argues that we wouldn't. There's a not-bad discussion of the example at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Experience_Machine, but the original is in his book Anarchy, State, and Utopia.

BB

P.S.: Butt size per se does not, however, play a prominent role in Nozick's discussion of the case.

BB

I second that, BB!!! What a wonderful conversation!!

I did my senior high school thesis on Camus. You just made me smile, big time 'Neato! Thanks!! I think I will have to run to the library and reread some of those books again. (in my copious free time!)

Well, what was HE thinking?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

I wouldn't choose the experience over all, but the availability to go back and forth at will would be nice.

I will check out that link, fun!
Thanks

we cross-posted e-beth!

Speaking of not using my time more efficiently, I'm running out the door to take C-Dog to violin.....Right........NOW.........

great conversation, everyone!

Actually, at age 6 what I think was going on was an exploration of how he could or could not control "reality"

'cause I do think it's all about our *interaction* with said "reality"

Funny story about convertibles and body parts *ahem* when he was 3.5. He had just decided to be done with diapers, saw a car go by and asked "mom, a convertible is something that changes, right?" "Yep" said I. "Mom! my *ahem* is a convertible!" and I had to agree with him even as I tried not to drive off the road in a laughing fit.

OH. My. It took me a second read through to get that one!!! That is classic and I hope you have it written down somewhere!

BD: I LOVED reading Nozick back in my college days! I'd forgotten all about him until you mentioned him.

I wonder if I have his book still lying around somewhere...

Yes, I'm a recovering English major, with a phil & religion double-minor. Bring Buddhism and H.D. into this conversation, and I'd be in intellectual heaven!!!

(And if anyone knows H.D. and likes her, I may literally jump up and down in front of my computer!)

These are great conversations! And, as we all know, 'The unexamined life is not worth living'. !!!
(socrates)
More relevant to the intial idea of "what if everything is something we make up?": Plato's allegory of the cave, from The Republic could be a good read for a deep thinker that age, avoiding the more modern 'god is dead' stuff.

The cave is perfect! Good thinking!

What is Cyberpunk about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

Cyberpunk is a science fiction genre noted for its focus on "high tech and low life." The name is derived from cybernetics and punk and was originally coined by Bruce Bethke as the title of his short story "Cyberpunk," published in 1983,[1] although the style was popularized well before its publication by editor Gardner Dozois. It features advanced science, such as information technology and cybernetics, coupled with a degree of breakdown or radical change in the social order.

I had not heard of cyberpunk until now, thanks!

Seems a little dark for my tastes, but cool concept.

A good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer

Now that looks pretty good, thanks for the rec.

I'll get it from the library, my husband would get into this book as well. It's been awhile since we've had a good book discussion.

Interesting comments on dreaming by a PG adult, among other observations.

http://www.worlddreambank.org/P/PRODODD.HTM

Unrelated, but trenchant quote:

"Mistaking my idle curiosity for obsession, just because I casually learned their specialty, is one of the few consistent reactions of gifted specialists to a prodigy."

What he says about thought and feeling not being antagonistic is what resonated with me. I've never really understood why feelings make people so illogical. Of course, by now I've realized that I'm the odd one on this account, not other people, but it continues to puzzle me. I understand it, but I don't get it. It sounds like he has the same problem.

There's something about his tone that's rather off-putting though. Can't quite put my finger on it...The section on "Normal People" is part of my problem with it, I think.

One is the lonliest number.
99.99999999999999999999

That was written some time ago. I wonder how he is doing today. I think that is took a good deal of courage to put that out on paper. A big risk for him.

Hiding intellect resonates with me. I absolutely see my daughters doing so. It's a slippery slope. To be alienated is a very oppressive feeling...........