Friday, Jul. 25, 2008
MATH WHIZ Boy, 8, Makes Perfect Score on Calculus AP Exam
By Carol Schorn
Contributing Writer

Kristin Kirby/Photo Correspondent
Magnus LaDue, center, is homeschooled by his father Dr. Mark LaDue and mother Dr. Mariana LaDue. Both parents have Ph.D.s in math.


On the day that many high school juniors and seniors were anxiously calling the College Board to find out their scores on the Advanced Placement exams they had taken in May, Mark LaDue was placing the same call for his 8-year-old son, Magnus. Mark was so thrilled with Magnus� results that he called back twice more. Magnus, the youngest person to take the Calculus BC AP test had made a 5 � the highest score possible. Mark and Mariana LaDue , who homeschooled their son, say they made the decision to have Magnus take the exam after he completed instruction in calculus and had mastered the practice exams. Finding a place to take the exam became the next challenge for the family.

Asked how his friends reacted to his remarkable achievement, Magnus replied that he does not have friends other than his parents. Mariana explained that finding friends for the young whiz kid is difficult, and that most of his socializing takes place with her friends� families.

Magnus� remarkable abilities are not confined to mathematics. He also excels at playing the piano. He currently takes lessons with Carol Leone at SMU, and has played at a variety of public venues. Magnus practices four hours each day on a new Steinway piano.

Magnus� talents were evident early on, according to his parents, who said he had learned to read and do addition and subtraction by the age of three. At that time the LaDues, who both have Ph.D.s in mathematics, decided to homeschool their son. Magnus� father quit his job to work with his son. "Magnus is my full-time job" Mark said.

Mark�s role goes far beyond father and teacher. He has set up a Web site about Magnus which boasts of Magnus� mathematical and musical accomplishments. Mark has business cards which give his title as president and CEO of Music Do Love, Magnus� Web site. "I�m very good at advertising him," Mark said.

Mark said he creates his own curriculum for Magnus. He and his wife said they follow their son�s lead, answering his questions and teaching him about whatever subjects he expresses interest in. Magnus is currently teaching himself about knots, using several books as guides.

Mark said his son�s current curriculum does not include English, history, science or foreign languages, as these subjects do not presently interest him.

Although they realize that it is unorthodox, Magnus� parents are pleased with the results.

The 8-year-old has now moved on to more advanced mathematics including linear algebra, differential equations and Mathmatica 6. His parents are hopeful that Magnus can qualify for the American Mathematics Competition in February, 2009, and ultimately earn a spot on the U.S. International Mathematical Olympiad team when he is 10 or 11 years old. The LaDues say they do not plan on sending him to college before age 16 or 17.

In the meantime, the family is looking at various university summer programs.

Mark says that he is also negotiating with Fort Worth Country Day School to provide a specialized educational program for his son in conjunction with Stanford University.

When Mariana suggested the name Magnus for their baby, its Latin meaning � great � was not lost on Mark and he readily agreed.

His motto, which appears on both the Web site and his business cards, is "When we combine Mathematics and Music with Love, the possibilities are endless."


http://cbs11tv.com/local/Mozart.mathematical.Prodigy.2.779538.html

Any thoughts???

"His parents are hopeful that Magnus can qualify for the American Mathematics Competition"

Umm--I would think so! How cool that he has math whizzes at home to nurture his abilities. I feel so sorry for my DS because I'm definitely more "mathy" than DH and while I'm able, I'm no whiz.

I have mixed feelings about that paragraph. I'm all for child-led education, and I don't have a problem with taking some time off from a subject. But no English, science or history at all?

That's an awful lot to leave out! And those things are vital if a person is to be an educated and contributing citizen of the world. It seems a bit irresponsible to me, at least on its face.

If he's several years ahead in these subjects, then I have less heartburn about taking a break. That's kind of what we're doing with arithmetic, frankly. He's ahead, he's bored with it, we'll approach math from a different tack. But to just say "He's not interested, so we're not doing three major fields of study at all?"

<wrinkling nose>

Meh. Not so much!

I don't have so much of a problem with that.

But this:

"I�m very good at advertising him," Mark said.

Yikes.

Wait, I'm revising my statement. Perhaps it's not so much that don't have a problem with it, I feel each parent dealing with a child's unique learning needs has to make their own decisions.

I will say, he seems a little young to choose a specialization!

The parents are rightly proud of this cool little guy!

The dad seems to be taking it a little far....seems like he may be bleeding into creator parent territory.

I agree, Kriston. While I don't agree with some schools philosphy that you can't advance in one area until you catch up in other areas, I don't agree with excluding education in an area because it doesn't interest the child at the time.

Yeah, it's not what I would do, however, I don't have a Phd.

Yeah. And he does have plenty of time to catch up with the other subjects. I just remember loving the classics from the time mom was reading bedtime stories through learning to read them myselves. I can't imagine not including that in an education plan. Btw, I loved math, too; I think of what I would have missed if I applied all my time to math.

What do you think would happen if this child decided tomorrow that he didn't want to do math anymore or even take on a hobby that would take hours away from his work on math? Do you think he would have a choice/say on the subject?

The father seems a little bit over invested.

I totally agree! I think just to be a responsible citizen you need a broad world view and part of this is educating yourself in other cultures, history, and literature. He's obviously a very gifted child, but I don't see the value of allowing a 8 year old to be this specialized. Hopefully he doesn't burn out (or worse). I feel sad that his parents haven't found social outlets for him.

Based on the way the article is written, that was my thought bianc850a.

I totally agree bianc.

Let me start saying that the kid is for sure an amazing PG child. Wow to him for doing so well and wow to his parents as well.

Chances are that this kid is way beyond an average 8 year old in English, science and history. To be honest I don't see a problem if he takes time off these subjects as long as he comes back to them at some point. The article doesn't say if he hasn't done any English for last 6 months or last 3 years. A year or two wouldn't bother me.

I couldn't do that, I am too much of a control freak, but parts of me wishes that I could do it. The kid is obviously into math and music and we all know that the kids learn the best if they are very interested into something.

I agree about his father. My impression from the article is that he might have gone little too far with the advertising and such. I haven't seen the boy's web page, but I will have a look.

The part about no friends was pretty sad too. Not a good situation for the child

Advertising him for what?? And, no matter his IQ, a kid still needs friends to be a kid. Who does he sword fight with or chase with a water gun or play checkers or jump on the trampoline or just be silly? Sounds like they are setting him up for some emotional problems, it seems to me.

I just wanted to add, in case this family or their friends end up on this site, that I am quite sure all our comments are based on the very limited (and perhaps not even accurate)information presented in the article, which is certainly not telling the whole story.

I am sure I speak for all of us when I say that just because I probably wouldn't do X or Y with my kid, that that doesn't mean I think it is wrong for another kid. If I have learned one thing hanging out here, it is how different each child and situation is. Just when I think I have all the answers up comes another story to make me wonder about even that!

squirt said, "a kid still needs friends to be a kid"--

don't know if I agree entirely. There are lots of kids who don't have friends. Someone with such ability is not easy to find another with common ground. My kids luckily have each other and seem to be pretty sociable, but we can go for a long period of time without anyone else. What about kids raised on farms or ranches? Wasn't Christopher Paolini (Eragon author) homeschooled in Montana wilderness?

Not trying to be contrary, but that caught my eye...

I have to say I don't much like the article, but I'm extremely hesitant to take any article at face value. I'm sure if I had a reporter here on the right day s/he could make DS look an awful lot like that, despite actually being... well... we won't say "normal" (LOL!) but reasonably well adjusted.

This is why I'm generally very wary of the media -- I've never (ever!) been quoted correctly in anything I've ever contributed to, right down to a very carefully written out, bland and detail-less statement about volunteering for a local animal rescue. They made it sound like I thought I was some bigwig running the place instead of a lowly data entry chicky. And they misspelled my name.

But especially when children are quoted, and the reporter knows what point s/he wants to make but the child isn't quite as savvy in his answers, you can end up with interesting results... technically quotes, but purposely drawn out to fit a particular argument.

Exactly Kar1200 - which is why I said "based on the way the article is written." For that very reason, I don't think I"d ever agree to such an article being written about my child. The media mis-quotes, mis-represents, paints a picture....wrong all the time.

Agreed, and...



Agreed!

That's also why the statement about advertising the boy seems troubling to me. Hopefully that was taken out of context or something, but it seems problematic to me to be looking for publicity in that fashion. Why? To what end? How does this help the boy?

I don't quite have a Ph.D., 'Neato--I quit ABD. But I think I'm definitely close enough to say "That's not what I would do, and it sounds like a bad educational policy to skip three major subjects entirely." Frankly, I think someone with a 7th grade education could say as much and be right! I'm just sayin'...

And as for friendships...I do think friends of some sort are important. Can people get by without friends in the wilds of the frontier or something? Certainly. Introverts especially. But in this day and age, it seems unnecessary for most people to *have* to do without friends entirely. Perhaps the boy just hasn't found true peers--I think many here can sympathize with that possibility. Or perhaps he's in a too-highly controlled environment with over-involved parents. That would leave me feeling less sympathetic about the situation. I don't know what's true, so I can't judge.

It does remind me that if the press ever wanted to do this sort of article about my son, I should say NO!!!!

Time for the web site,if you haven't found it yet
http://www.musicdolove.com/

I gave my dd a copy of NAGC's Gifted Children's Bill of Rights:

Here it goes:

You have a right....

...to know about your giftedness.
...to learn something new every day.
...to be passionate about your talent area without apologies.
...to have an identity beyond your talent area.
...to feel good about your accomplishments.
...to make mistakes
...to seek guidance in the development of your talent.
...to have multiple peer groups and a variety of friends.
...to choose which of your talent areas you wish to pursue.
...not to be gifted at everything.

My problem still lies with the fact that at 3 years old the parents chose his path. They took his right to choose before he was old enough to know he had choices.

My dd tells me one day she wants to be a scientist, then a week later she decides she will be an artist or writer. Last I heard she will be a scientist who teaches art on the side. She has the right to dream about her future and make some decisions on her own.

At this time in her life, she is tasting all the flavors of learning. At one point she will decide what she likes best and specialize (used to be that was what college was for).

At my dd school the Drama, Art, and Music departments are treated as very important components of the children's educations. They feel that it is very important for the children to be given the tools to be able to communicate with others.

I am sure that many of our children would be able to get a 5 in a calculus AP test if we had prepped them since they were three years old towards that goal and they spent their days just doing math. If that boy spends 4-5 hours practicing the piano and even an equal amount of time working on math, he doesn't have the time to develop any other talents. Even when he describes the fact that he goes biking, the father emphazises that that keeps him healthy and strong to do more math. A little scary....

I strongly disagree. This sounds very similar to the line used when it comes to HG kids and other parents/teachers: "The child reads only because the parents pushed him to do so. My child could be like that if we did the same thing ..."

We are talking about 8 year old passing Calculus AP exam, not 8 year old learning Algebra. Let's face it, you cannot really teach 3 year old more math than he is ready for and even gifted 3 year olds are not ready for too much. I for once do not think my son could get A on Calculus AP exam at the age of 8 and he is really good in math.

Let's give the child and the parents some credits. The kid is brilliant in math. The parents are not pushing him to college. He has lots of time to learn lots of other subjects. That's the beauty of homeschooling that you can go with the flow and forget about a few subjects for a while.

Yes for what everybody said about articles like this. We have no idea what was really said or/and meant.

I may be speaking out of turn, and i don't want to pass any kind of judgement (as has rightfully been said in the thread, we don't know the full story, so hard to know)... however, looking at the website makes me think of one thing -

this little boy, who is incredibly talented and WOW!... is his dad's project. His dad is a PhD who gave up his job to have a new full-time job at which he expects himself to be 100% successful - and that job is his son. It seems to me - and again, my opinion - a bit unfair to small child to be someone else's project, and not his own. I want to help lead my children, help provide them with the best that i am able to to help them accomplish their goals of being.. a spanish teacher who is a an astronaut who practices veterinary medicine while in space... or, whatever. And helping them see the possibilities. But it's ultimately, i think, about what they want to make of themselves in life, isn't it?

Good job for Magnus AND his parents. He is definitely not underachieving.

It takes some pretty good English and Science skills to rack up a 5 on AP Calculus.

With parents like those, Magnus is getting a very SOLID foundation in math and it shows. They know what it takes to get from point A to B and have obviously enjoyed the ride getting there!!

Kriston, I agree somewhat. I knew some specially trained prodigies from E Europe who went to special schools, etc and were very good on the first day in college, but many of us caught up with or passed them by the end of the semester once we were exposed to the same level of material, instruction and competition.

BUT, even with what I got from PS, I definitely was ready for Algebra in the 4th grade and could have gone into Calculus by the 6th grade. The discipline of slogging through the problems would have also served me well.

great conversation. I am impressed by Magnus & his parents. I'm grateful his dad is "advertising" his achievements because we need to know who's out there--it gives credence to our advocacy (when we say our little kid is ready for ALgebra, it doesn't seem so farfetched to school districts/administrators who have read a dozen stories like this and say maybe kids can handle more than addition subtraction at age 8).

I feel like, in some ways, I quit my job to make my kids my project (i.e. raise them!) just like a lot of house fraus have done and still do. Just because the dad is a man doesn't make it any different to me. Actually I think it's admirable. I love to see men involved in raising & mentoring their children. Maybe Magnus drove his own course of study--asked for more, ate up all the math they could give them.I know we've all felt overwhelmed and that we haven't given these bright kids all that they need or could handle. But M's dad has clearly been successful in helping him go. Maybe it's just because I have strong willed kids, but it's hard for me to believe that dad made the boy do math (or music) if he didn't love it. My kids would give me a few minutes and contrive an escape.

Like Austin said, a 5 (or even a 3 or 4 for that matter) on the AP Calc 3 exam is amazing and he has a full range of extreme giftedness in my mind.

I wonder if he is a DYS. I wonder how cool it would be for math savvy kids to meet him and see how he could connect with them, inspire them.

When I read this story, this is what came to mind. The story of the LAszlo sisters. Can it be done? I guess Mr. Laszlo proved it can. Is it fair to the child for the parent to choose their path in life at such an early age? I happen to think not, but obviously there is room for disagreement.

"She and her two older sisters, Grandmaster Susan and International Master Zs�fia, were part of an educational experiment carried out by their father L�szl� Polg�r, in an attempt to prove that children could make exceptional achievements if trained in a specialist subject from a very early age. "Geniuses are made, not born," was L�szl�'s thesis. He and his wife Klara educated their three daughters at home, with chess as the specialist subject. However, chess was not taught to the exclusion of everything else, as was the case with Gata Kamsky. Their father also taught his three daughters the international language Esperanto."

Yeah, I agree.

I understand what Austin and others are saying. Of all people we should be empathetic concerning people's judgement and misunderstanding of a kid that's so far ahead.

And we may have the wrong info.

But based on the info we have:

The numerous television shows and that bizarre website..........

Okay, let's take the website, for example.

Now I know the kid's birthdate, where he lives and where he hangs out. Assuming the info the parent posted isn't false; I now have enough information to track that kid down. Besides that; with some remedial computer skills, his birthdate and school district I can get a whole lot more info on him.

Forgive me, but what are the parents thinking?

They are not simply supporting the kid. They are outing him and an eight year old has no understanding of the implications of that, I don't care how brilliant he is.

This publicity stunt is all about the parents not the kid.

So yes we, can say the child is brilliant and his talent should be supported and nurtured.

And yes, we can also assume based on the info at hand that the parent is seeking publicity about his child's brilliance based on his own needs, or the child would have created the website ON HIS OWN! And called the t.v. studio ON HIS OWN, and the interview question would be TO THE CHILD, not answered by the father.

So it is my humble and non-professional opinion that the parent is putting the child at severe risk for some major maladjustment difficulties.

Okay, maybe not humble, I do have a strong opinion about this. And of course I think I'm right which isn't very humble at all.

What 'Neato said. I don't think there is anything gained by the GT community or especially him with this kind of sensationalism.

He is obviously a very gifted kid. He's on a very fast track that I hope he chose for himself.

I don't want you to miss this quote from the child's web page

Hi Lmom,

Not sure if this comment is in general or engaging my comments.


I saw all that and it's wonderful.

I don't like the story for totally different reasons.

Well, for all of us who were wondering what to include in a DYS portfolio, either of these would do the trick: http://www.musicdolove.com/Mathematics/SineOf1Degree.html or
http://www.musicdolove.com/Mathematics/IntegralOfe-x2.html

Wow.

Definately!

I have to say that something about this story and the father's approach comes across as a bit "off." If it were just one or two things, the comment about having no friends aside from the parents, for example, I'd be able to attribute it to a misquote, an overzealous reporter, or even the fact that young kids say all kind of things that aren't really the case. But the website itself seems to reinforce one's impressions.

I agree with the posters who mentioned the lack of awareness on the part of parents who would post such detailed information about their child - down to the bike trails where this boy can regularly be found. I think that's just plain nuts. The wording seems off -or it could be that the parent is not a native speaker, but there is something odd about the syntax. I agree that the comment emphasizing how the biking and exercise make the boy healthy *so that he can do math and music* was almost creepy. Hopefully, it wasn't meant that way. The Can You Guess? bit seemed immature and not unlike something a young kid, rather than a parent, might write.

The boy and mother's comments about the lack of friends did made me sad, if it's true. I hope that the parents put just a fraction of the effort into finding accepting or like minded kids (they do exist) as they do developing the math and music skills. I know a mother of a gifted boy at my kids' school who, from the time her son was very small, made a very large effort in this area, knowing that social skills were her son's area of weakness. She was such an engaging and social mom herself that kids were drawn to the house. She often invited other kids and their parents over to the house for play dates or parties and set up fun things to do. Even though she worked, she found time to volunteer at the schools and got to know which kids might be a good "fit" for her son. Unfortunately (and not saying it's the case here) , sometimes social interaction can be a weakness of a parent as well - there are parents who are quite introverted in their own right and perfectly happy to encourage an academic and individual pursuit bubble. Sometimes there's even an element of elitism, or feeling that other kids are just not "like" their child and so they don't even try after a while. I hope that this is not the case.

I also have major issues with the parents on their philosophy of such early specialization. Is this even permitted by Texas home schooling guidelines?

LMom, The website seems to have been edited in various ways within the last few days. I'm not certain that was there before.

Very good points Gabrielle. And I agree that something seems slightly off with the syntax or something. I felt the same way and really couldn't put my finger on it.

I must not have read the site closely because just now I noticed that at the bottom there are links to two other child pianist's homepages.

Maybe this is a popular thing to do in our info-accessible age, however, it doesn't really sit well with me.

For the record I dislike seeing young children turned into mega-star actors/singers/entertainers for the same reasons I disagree with the conduct of this child's parents.

That kind of exposure brings a lot of adult-like pressures and issues into the mix.
If a child has talents, they will still have talents when they are 20. There is a lot a parent can do to support and nurture the talent without inviting the whole world into the kid's living room.

Watch the Olympics in a couple of weeks and you'll see plenty of similar stories. It's hard for parents to know what to do with such talented kids and how to support them, let them go, and "be a kid." And there are always outside pressures, too.

Anyway, I went to the website and watched him play the piano and all I could say was "wow." And the piano teacher works with similar children. Wow.

This article originally appeared in the Southlake (Texas) Journal. It contains so many inaccurate quotations and incorrect assertions about Magnus and his education that it is little more than a caricature. The editors of the paper have recognized this and removed this libelous tripe from their web site.

It's clear that the author had an ax to grind about gifted eduacation and deliberately fabricated some of the "information" and the quotes. Nothing could be further from the truth about the real Magnus than this article.

That often happens. Reporters go 'ga-ga'over something special, and end up making things appear as they are not.

Okay, point taken. But why are the parents granting so many interviews and seeking out so much publicity.
I could understand if there was one interview and the reporter was an idiot.
But there are many and a web page as well!
And also, I think most posters that have been somewhat critical (but hopefully polite!) have been directing it towards the PARENT, not the CHILD........is anyone picking up this recurring theme!!!!!


Concerning the Olymics, I agree with you there questions. But there are really not that many kids competing. I've seen kids as young as 15, and only one as young as 12 or 13 I think, a swimmer.

But this kid is 8. And those kids are hopefully showing up to compete in their event. I haven't seen any evidence of their parents marketing their children like a brand, although I'm sure we will.

I think it goes without saying that I would also think that is a bad idea.

Well, it does help get the word out that not all kids are on their way toward smoking crack!
And after viewing the kid's website again, I got thinking about how I've posted a few pics of GS9 showing his cattle on some farm forums. Darn right, I'm proud; and if some reporter stuck a microphone in my face on Monday I might have said some things that I'd be wanting to take back today!

As usual, I agree with you OMA! May I emphasize that you agree that perhaps after the interview you may say something you may want to take back!
Therein lies the problem, once it's printed and/or in cyberspace; you can't.

Perhaps I've been unduly harsh towards the parents. If so, I'm sorry.
It is true I am very opinionated concerning certain matters. So in the spirit of supportiveness toward's Magnus's family, I will dispense this totally unsolicited advice:



Edit you website. There is too much specific and personal information about your son. Between that and the news reports, I could track down your address by the end of the day. And believe me, I'm the least scary person that could end up at your doorstep.

Refuse any more press inquiries. They general press has no interest in portraying your family in a realistic light. Their job is to sell commercials, not to disperse pertinent and worthwhile information. If you ignore them they will go away. They have a short attention span and will be off in search of their next rubberneck story.

You are right to support and nurture you son's amazing gifts and talents. He is a remarkable young man and every child is a precious gift. Personally, I would protect his privacy and find others like yourself to rally around your family and support you and him. I suspect there are precious few who will be able to do this objectively. Allow him to develop and grow into the remarkable person he is on track to become. Then he may stand as an example of how important the environment is for a child with extreme learning needs.
Additionally, as an adult he will be developmentally more readily able to withstand the pressure and attacks that come with taking a stand on such a politically charged issue, like genius.

A lot of brilliant well-meaning people are going to give you lots of advice on how to best support your son.
Be discriminating.

Apply to Davidson for assistance if you think it would be helpful to Magnum, if you haven't done so already.

Peace,
Neato

I think that's some pretty good advice, Neato! I think we have to be very careful between being very proud of our kids, but not make them feel like a commodity.

Texas home schooling guidelines are minimal at best, which is a wonderful blessing. We don't have the government telling us how to educate our children. I know many parents of PG children who unschool and it works great for them. I am just glad that I have the freedom to make that decision. Even if I may not agree with this father's decisions regarding his child's education, I support his right to decide what he thinks is best for his child. The children I know who are studying calculus at a young age crave that mental stimulation. Their parents are usually running behind them trying to keep up as many of us are doing with our children. Other children like this child do exist but most parents are not comfortable displaying their children's abilities for the world to see for reasons previously mentioned. That is one of the reasons the DYS program is so valuable to PG families. It helps PG children find true peers without being on public display.

Some of my earlier comments may not seem to make as much sense at this point as the boy's website has been frequently revised, even in the last 24 hours. I still don't know why this kid *needs* to be advertised. If promoting him towards commercial purposes or a performing career is the goal(admittedly something to which I can't relate) then a more professional website would be more in line, minus the identifying information and toning down the gratuitous hyperbole - the abilities are impressive enough to stand on their own. Links to other child prodigies' websites are recent additions to Magnus' - I do hope the parents got permission to post those.

There's quite a good chance that the boy is a DYS, or if not, that his parents read this site. I, for one, would not enjoy reading about myself, but if you're out there - feel free to post and say hi.

Quote from the website:
"Magnus will begin University Physics in the fall of 2008. Within two years he should be ready to begin his Intel Science Talent Search project. His research project will most likely involve Algorithms, a subject in which he shows exceptional creativity. "
http://www.musicdolove.com/

Ania, forgive me, are you making a point? I'm missing it.

No point, neato
Just having fun...

I thought Intel was science fair for High School students? Two yrs of university level physics could give him a slight advantage over the other HS students. Not that I have a problem with it, but it's interesting.

P.S. The comment about genius being made not born reminded me of Malcolm Gladwell's talk where he postulates that 10,000 hrs devotion to something/anything (guitar, math, etc.) is what's needed to be the expert/genius in an area. This is poorly re-stated but maybe you'll get the idea.