Hello everyone. I am new to this forum, but I'm SO glad I have found it. I have been looking for some kind of support and conversation with other parents of gifted children. Here is some quick background on me.

I have two DD's, 2.5 and 8 weeks, and I live in Indiana with my DH. My DH and I suspect my DD2.5 is gifted, but it's been hard to talk about this with friends or family. She learned her letters (upper and lower case), colors, shapes, counting to 20 and letter sounds before 2. In the bathtub, she'd pick up the letter "P" and say, "P," then turn it to make a lower case "d" and "b", naming those letters respectively. She does other things that I feel are unusual for a 2.5yo, but I'll save that for another day. . .

The reason I'm going crazy is because my husband and I have virtually no support system about our concerns about how to handle school, socialization or simple behavior issues with our DD. After doing some research, my DH and I figured out we were both GT, too, but did not get the opportunities or recognition from our parents to fully excel. In fact, when we first mentioned to our parents about our DD's abilities, they said, "Well, I hope she's not so smart that she's weird."

Then there are the behavior issues -- she has the intellect of a 4 or 5yo but the emotional responses of a 2.5yo (I believe they call that asynchronous development). And of course, she's sensitive on top of that.

Has anybody else felt this frustrated or alone when it comes to talking about this to others?

We have a hard time keeping our DD engaged with activities. She has a long attention span when it comes to something she's intent on learning or mastering, but other than that, she hardly plays with regular toys. Is this normal?

Okay, this post is entirely too long and I've rambled in a very unorganized fashion. I promise my future posts will be more direct and succinct -- I just feel so overwhelmed and confused about all of this.
Any comments or suggestions would be great. Even just a "I've been there before!" would help.

Thanks for listening!!!

You are definitely not alone. Here's my "been there" story. I think it was just before my DS was 3 that I started worrying about things such as future education issues, because he seemed to know the entire kindergarten curriculum (he's now 4.5).

I am sorry you have no support system near you, yet. But I found that a lot of the friends I made in my town (we've been here 5 years), turned out to be GT and with GT kids. (I think you find friends who are like you.) But this board is by far the most helpful in venting all things gifted. Before I found this forum, I felt quite stifled. Even DH didn't quite get that our son was different until after he agreed to have him tested to see if he qualified for early kindergarten. It is sad that your parents seem to have negative attitudes toward giftedness. Perhaps they will change with a bit more education.

I have felt very free to discuss many concerns here that I didn't want to bring up elsewhere because either people wouldn't believe me or they would think I was bragging.

As for activities - I find having a gifted child rather exhausting at times. Especially up to age 3. Your DD sounds similar to how my DS was - long attention span, and yet, if not interested in something, will not give it the time of day. We finally found that computers and legos were lifesavers for getting DS to do something on his own for awhile. (The computer thing came back to bite us, though, because he's a little bit obsessed at the moment.) As you will likely hear from others, just continue following your child's leads as to interests, and expose her to many different types of activities. Most kids love outings to parks and zoos and museums.

The other thing about "regular" toys - maybe the toys you have are too young for her. Try some toys for older kids that you think your DD may be interested in.

I'm rambling now. Welcome to the board. Your daughter sounds delightful.

I've just found this forum too, and my 2 cents' worth is that isolation is one of the most stressful parts of raising a child who does not fit into the conventional pigeonholes.

Talking to others is important. Reading is important - and the Davidson site has some excellent resources in this regard. If you are just starting, I'd suggest the six articles by Julia Osborn (just do a search on the site) as an excellent starting point. The more you read, the less isolated you'll feel. But ... it's a big research job.

My only other personal suggestions would be to listen closely to your child, and trust your heart and instincts.

Welcome to the board!

Welcome! And please, feel free to talk all you need to here. Brag, complain, worry, plan, ask for help...whatever you need. We all know EXACTLY how you feel!

BTDT! (Been there, done that!)

P.S. I just sent you a private message.

Welcome to the board. Good for you figuring out things so soon. It took me at least a year longer till I finally realized that DS5 could be gifted. Doh.

Follow your child lead is one of the best advices. As for preschool and such, find a place where she would be happy. Forget about academics at school, the less the better. She can get all the academics at home. That worked great for DS5. We tried it the other way around for DS4 and his last year in Montessori turned out to be a bad choice.

I bet she likes toys for older kids and 2-3 year old toys don't really do it. I was concerned when DS5 at this age didn't care too much about certain toys and other kids. One of his favorite "toys" was a computer where he typed words he had memorized and copied others from books. Not really a typical 2 year old pastime Looking at him now my worries were laughable.

...and I think you were WAAAAAAAY ahead of the curve, LMom!

I knew DS7 was GT from pretty early on, but my concept of how GT was way off. It was when he hit first grade that we realized that he wasn't the MG kid who would succeed easily at school with little-to-no accomodation, as we had thought him to be. Surprise!

Knowing at 2.5--or even 4.5!--that he was unusual would have cut way back on the grade school shock factor.

(And thank goodness for all my random and strange online buddies! Sooooooo much help here!)

Oh, don't worry I didn't realize how gifted he was when he was 3. Only last September after 7 days in Montessori when I was told that they never had a child like him I started thinking HG. The test results from last December were a real eye opener. Shows how little I knew when he was 3.

I think it goes in stages. First you realize your child is gifted, then you move onto little bit more gifted than your average gt child, then HG ... I am almost over the "They will kick him out of Davidson once they realize he doesn't belong there."

Now I can concentrate on DS4. My logic is completely screwed up by DS5. Who cares that DS4 is reading 2nd-3rd books. His math is nowhere close to his brother's abilities. Therefore he cannot be more than MG.

LOL! Nah, I met him. He's totally safe!



DH keeps saying things to me about DS4 (in private, of course) like "There's something wrong with him. He's so slow!"

I probably tell him as much as a couple of times a month that DS4 is NOT slow, but instead DH's yardstick (namely HG+ child DS7) is just really screwy. I don't think we have any clue yet what's up with DS4.

In particular, DS4's writing before he's reading is still messing with my head...If he would just read already, I'd feel like I'd have a better sense about whether he has LD issues or not. But as verbal and imaginative as he is, still no reading!

I know, I know. Patience. All in their own time and they're all different and yatta-yatta... *sigh* But it's so nerve-wracking! Not knowing anything drives me mad! If he's having trouble, I want to get him help sooner rather than later. If he's ND, I'd like to know that so I can quit worrying about LDs.

*double sigh*

I think we talked about it a while back but let me repeat DS5 typed on the computer before he read. He typed hundreds of different words which he had memorized. He has a great visual memory and he remembered lots of words but reading itself hadn't click yet at that point.

PM for you

Yes, we did talk about it. Thanks, LMom. But it is really my one big issue with the kid! I worry that I should be getting him help for some undiagnosed LD.

Well, I should note his extreme emotional sensitivity, too, as an issue, lest I forget THAT biggie! Seriously, the child is *Extra-PG* when it comes to his emotions! Cup runneth over!!! It just seems to be the *only* area that he's definitely GT in! But boy, is he PPPPPPG in that area! If it weren't for his Rampant Emotionalism, I'd be thinking he's ND. But his emotions just shout GT. (Usually they cry out, actually, heavy on the "crying" part!)

Thanks, Dottie!

At least I know enough to know what I don't know...I hope...

This brings back memories of my son at 2.5, especially the bathtub. During the day it seemed like he soaked up all kinds of knowledge and while he was soaking in the bathtub, he played with what he had learned. He had been interested in letters since he was about 12 months old and by 2.5 he was making words out of those letters. He liked it when I spelled out words for him and he would point at the correct object every time I spelled out a word like soap, towel, bathtub, shampoo, ceiling, floor. He loved this game. When other kids found out that he coud do this, he got a lot of attention from them and he always liked entertaining people or making them laugh. By age 5, older kids were spelling out science words trying to find a word he couldn't identify not realizing that he read the science encyclopedia for fun.

He didn't play much with regular toys and wouldn't even try to do jigsaw puzzles, except on a computer game, and preferred playing and interacting with me, but part of the reason may be been his mild motor disability and sensory issues that were not diagnosed until he was nine. He had a long attention span for things he was interested in which was almost everything except sports--the opposite of most of the kids here. He was never impulsive. He would sit and think about things when other kids were playing and come up with all kinds of questions. My sister-in-law told me before he started Kindergarten that he needed to learn to stifle his curiousity so he would fit in. The Kindergarten teacher seemed to agree. We have homeschooled since he finished Kindergarten, which was hard for me at first because I enjoyed volunteering at the school and talking to the teachers and I felt so alone. I had to give it up for my son, but he is worth it.

We live in a small town and people do think a small child talking like an adult is kind of weird. Once, when I took him to get a haircut, I overheard a girl telling her friend that he was "scary" smart. Sometimes when my son talked to me at restaurants, it would get quiet at the tables around us and people would listen to him. Once, when he noticed that people had stopped talking and were watching him, he looked around and said loud enough that they were sure to hear him something like "Did someone call for prayer and I missed it?" Another time, a girl about two years older than him, in his acting class, overheard him talking to his friend about a computer game and he heard her say, "there he goes talking in another "geeky" language I don't understand. A few days later, she asked him a question and he answered the way he normally talks and then said "oh, sorry, that was probably too geeky for you to understand, and then repeated the gist of what he said in a slow, almost southern drawl using much simpler words to make his point. He knows that some people think he is weird because he is smart but he has fun with it. He senses that I feel uncomfortable at times when people watch us, but then he asks me "why do you care so much about what these people think?" or "if they think we are geeks, let's act really geeky and he'll start talking about spelling bees or physics using words that they have probably never heard even though they are much older than he is. He just has fun with it.

I think his sense of humor and joking about his differences is one reason he has so many friends. All of his friends are gifted, and most of them are older, but the doctor said this is okay because his mental age is higher that his chronological age.

So he has close friends, but I don't. I don't have anything in common with the people whose kids are in sports. I can't stand football and people talk about football a lot where I live, even in my own family. The only people I occasionally talk to are the parents of my son's friends. Two of them are teachers and they understand what it is like raising a gifted child, but my son is twice exceptional and I haven't met even one person with a twice exceptional child like mine. I think the isolation is one of the hardest things I have had to deal with, but like I said before, my son is worth it.

My son demonstrated how he manages to carry on a conversation with his cousins who are very, very into sports with no interest in academics. It went something like this: Cousin: I scored the most points today out of all the kids on the team. DS: Really? That's nice. I know you are really good at that. DS internal thoughts: "I wonder what will be on Mythbusters next. Hope it's not a rerun." Cousin: Yes, they threw the ball to me and I ran with it so fast nobody could catch me. DS: Oh, I know you can run a lot faster than I can. DS internal thoughts: I think I'll create a new character on my Sims 2 game, what should I name him?"

He knows that these cousins have no interest in what he is doing outside their common interest in video games, so he doesn't talk about his interests. It is like he can go into an act and he can fit in socially this way, but he said it is tiring and he feels much more comfortable with the gifted kids he has something in common with.

I found a lot of support on online gifted message boards like this one. I feel like some of the people here really understand.

Remember, there are different sorts of gifted. Highly creative, highly intellectual, highly academic. Sometimes kids have all of those, one, two or other gifts altogether.
I read recently an article in the NAGC quarterly about the difference between kids who master and those who create. Both kinds are gifted in their own right, however, they may present differently, especially in school.
I think we find it easier to support the child who is clearly academically gifted.
I've mentioned before that having read about Einstein he seems to fit more in the creator gifted category. Didn't perform as well in school as would be expected. However, he seems to be the most obvious symbol for genius.
And then of course there is Richard Feynman.

I want to thank everyone for the kind welcomes and advice. It feels much better knowing I can come on here anytime I need to and vent my frustrations (I have a lot of those!) or share some of the neat things DD2.5 does. For instance, she started teaching herself to sign the alphabet by playing on starfall.com. She started 3 days ago and knows about half the alphabet now. That is unusual for a 2.5yo, right?? Sometimes I still don't know for sure what's normal and what's GT, this being my oldest child. My general guideline is if I'm amazed she can learn it, it's probably GT. That's not real scientific, but oh well.

A couple of you talked about me being ahead of the game since I recognized GT abilities or signs in my daughter so soon, but really the congrats should go to my friend. When my DD was about 20mo, my friend saw her coloring. Every time she picked up a new color, my daughter would proudly say it. "Yellow! Orange! Blue!" I didn't think anything of it since I had gone over colors with her frequently and I had no other child to base her on. My friend looked at me with astonishment and started asking questions about my DD. Then she told me that DD was definitely not "normal" but in a good way.

My DH and I thought she was just kind of smart, no big deal. But then my daughter seemed to develop in fast forward. She went from seeming normal at 17-18 months, speaking 25 words or so (nothing out of the ordinary) to speaking in two-word sentences a month later. Then 5-word sentences a very short time after that while she quickly learned her letters, numbers, etc.

Now at 2.5, we're extremely curious to know what level of GT she is but from what I've read, it seems to be best to wait until they're 4 or 5 to test. Does that sound accurate to you guys out there??

I didn't even know "play schools" versus preschools existed until I read some of your posts. I do think that a play school would be much better than a preschool since she pretty much knows the curriculum already, and the main reason I want to send her to school is to get some socialization. When she hangs out with kids her age, she seems to dumb herself down, speaking more simply. I don't want her to do that in a preschool, too. I'll have to look around my area to see if one exists here. Are they few and far between?

One of my biggest challenges with my family is dealing with my brother. He has a daughter the same age who is not GT (at least not from what I've seen), and I sometimes cringe when my DD does something crazy in front of him and his wife, like spell her name, write "hi" or operate a computer. I don't want to my DD to sense that I'm uncomfortable and that she shouldn't be herself around others, though. My DH and I just act like it's no big deal; I don't want anyone to think we're trying to show off or anything. She just does those things on her own, you know.

At any rate, I'm glad to be here. Thanks again.

I wasn't quite clear on the difference between "academic" and "intellectual" and even after reading "Re-forming Gifted Education," I'm still not clear. Ha Ha Ha. It seems the academic ability is more narrowly focused compared to the Intellectual.

Hoosiermommy:
Concerning your brother, hopefully he doesn't feel it is an issue either. All kids are different and develop differently, they are who they are.
And welcome, there is tons of info and support here, enjoy.

Dazey:
Wasn't sure if you were asking a question about my comments, or making a comment in general.

I don't know if my brother thinks it's an issue but I do think my sister-in-law might. They just switched their daughter from a home-based day care to a more preschool-like setting. I'm not exactly sure why but they mentioned that she was mimicking the 1yo she played with a lot at the old day care. I have to wonder if they think their child is "slow" because she's not speaking like my DD. I don't think they realize that my DD is a bit unusual and that their DD is just fine. It's hard not to compare, though, especially when they're the exact same age (just 3 weeks apart!).

Ironically, I worried our DD was a bit on the slow side when her cousin learned to do things before her: crawling, waving, clapping and her first word. I think my daughter is a perfectionist, though, and wanted to make sure she could do all of those things just right before she tried them. Probably gets that from her mommy <grimace>.

Incogneato - Oh I was just making a comment about my own confusion intellectual vs academic ablility but if you have some wisdom on the topic, I'm always receptive! 8-) I think it made sense to me once I read the profiles they gave as examples. I think the academic ability girl was high just in reading but was struggling in math/science or perhaps vice versa.

I also need to go back and that book to get the difference between a gift and a talent solid in my head.

Here are a couple of links you might be interested in:

preschool behaviors in gifted kids

levels of giftedness

The first book I encountered on gifted kids was deborah ruf's "losing our minds." It was helpful to me because we have one of the kids who fit into her descriptions. Keep in mind, there are many HG+ kids who do not fit into these descriptions.

Losing Our Minds

Hi HMY,
Welcome!
Sounds like you may need to test at 4 rather than 5 so you have some info about early Kindergarden. As for getting info 'right now' - you are correct - it's tough. You can try the Deb Ruff book, 'Losing our Minds, Gifted Children left behind' so that you can at least feel less alone. Do I think that you can really guess her IQ from reading a book? No - of course not, but I do think it helps to know what normal, bright, and gifted kids are often doing at various ages. I agree that as a first time mom, it's really hard to know what is normal. I got a lot out of reading the 'Your 3 year old' books - I'd read the one that matched my son's age, and the one for the next year, and the one for the year after that - so I could piece together a pie graph of which behaviors were age-normal.

So glad you found us!
Grinity

LOL!

I think all that is pretty normal for the stage and age. Especially with the first child, I was trying to figure out what was normal based on what I saw other children doing. I'll bet most parents do that. After awhile we all kind of figure out what is normal for our own child.
I hope your SIL isn't stuck on comparing the two. That might end up being uncomfortable for everyone.
Our neighbor is an exceptionally gifted swimmer. The kid was just built to swim and she's very comitted, works very hard.
Both my girls are having a great time on swim team, this is our first year. If I expected them to swim like their neighbor, it might not have been such a fun experience. I'm proud of all three girls, they are each getting something a little different out of the experience.
For the record, I've found it just doesn't work to talk frankly with our close relatives about issues concerning the girls' intelligence and capabilities. It just doesn't end well.

Dazey,
I'm sure I don't have any particular wisdom to offer.......I think several people can read the same thing and get different summations. I have to look back and see which article I was referring to, we might be discussing two totally different articles.
I also think one can master AND create.
It seems more common to go one way or the other, though.
I apologize for getting so off topic for the thread, all!
Perhaps we should start a new thread or PM for further discussion?

I think we're "lucky" to have a kid who is not especially athletic. It helps in our sportsy town for comparison purposes, which everyone seems to do. I try to point out things like, "yes, he's a pretty quick learner. But wow, your kid sure is great at _____!" This helps sometimes. I try not to downplay my son's abilities though. I just acknowledge and move on.

I like that St. Pauli girl.

My neighbor is undefeated in swimming so far this summer season. Can you imagine if I said: "Wow your daughter is such an amazing swimmer!" and the mom minimized it. Like if she said "Well, she's not that good."
That would be kind of weird, right?

I have to remind myself sometimes to not downplay DS's abilities. It is hard, sometimes, because it seems to me that the other parents just feel so bad that their kid is not doing whatever. But then I remind myself of the whole sports analogy, and think, "well, i don't feel awful that my son can't ride a tricycle yet, or throws a ball kinda funny." So, I think it's my little public service to not downplay my smart kid. Hopefully someday, our smart kids will be just as accepted and applauded as the star athletes.

Oh, and also, my kid seems to overhear everything I say, even if he appears to be completely involved in something else. So, I wouldn't want him to get a complex due to mom's saying something negative.

Was there much competition between you and DB when you were growing up? How did you parent's handle competition?

As far as wanting to hide - welcome to the club! Sylvia Rimm has a lovely bit where when other people make comments - when the others comment on 'gifts' shift it to 'character' - Smile, nod and say: Yes she's so curious, or interested, or persistient.

That way we can validate our children's uniquenesses, and at the same time, shape the children to know we value character traits - the kind that can be developed, not the inborn ones!

Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity, thanks for that advice about changing someone's comment on the gift to a validation of character. That's a really good idea.

Yes, my DB and I were competitive growing up (we argued a lot until we were in our late teens). DB was athletic and I was academic, so our competitiveness usually fell on the basketball court in a game of HORSE or something. Or with a video game -- he hated playing me in Tetris because I'd always beat him. He'd usually beat me in everything else.

My parents didn't really do much about it at all, to be honest. It was just understood that DB was the athletic one and I was the "smart" one in school. Not exactly the way I want to raise my kids. My DB is actually a smart guy but had a hard time in early elementary with a few subjects so that he stopped trying throughout the rest of his school career. Kind of sad, really. That's a big reason my DH and I want to make sure our DD gets a good start on her education so that she doesn't have a bad experience that sours her entire outlook on school.

Uh oh.. hungry 2 month old wants a bottle NOW.

LOL - they did enough! 'No action' sends loud and clear messages. My guess is that you feel DB got cheated and are mortified that your DD might play a role in replaying that situation in the next generation. That's what I would be feeling anyway. If you've never been able to talk to DB about your perceptions of things, that is a good place to start. He may have had totally different motivations for his underachievement - such as wanting to be popular. Maybe he picked up how isolated you were by your choices and wanted something different? ((I'm guessing here that the feelings of not being able to tell anyone about your DD without being accused of bragging have echo's of your own school experiences - and that's just a wild guess, but again - it true of my own experience.))

Anyway - I'm glad you aren't crazy, and I don't expect you do go crazy anytime soon!
Giggle -
Grinity

Grinity, very insightful. I've never really considered any other reasons why my DB may have been an underachiever. You're probably very right about it, though.

Why can't we all just get along? (with family, that is)

LOL! there's the million dollar question! I would guess it's because we have so much history together. Also because 'who else' are we going to compare ourselves to?

Just keep looking looking looking and you'll find amazing folks hidden around.

Smiles,
Grinity

Always late to the party, but...

Welcome HoosierMommy! I found this forum s few months ago in much the same fashion you did. My DS began reading in late January at 2y6m. He's also REALLY into numbers. Once I had convinced myself that a) he wasn't just memorizing syntax and b) this was rather early for all this (he's a first child so I had no comparison), I consulted with my favorite physician, Dr. Google, and ended up here.

These folks have been a haven I needed. Just to read their experiences and wisdom has been a real godsend. My DS turns 3 in 2 weeks and in just the short time I've been here, I feel much calmer about where we are headed. That's not to say that I know what the future will bring, it's just so reassuring to know there's a support system in place when you need it.

Anyway, welcome from another toddler mom!

Catherine, thanks for the welcome. It's nice to meet someone with a toddler since most of the posters seem to have school-aged children. Their experience is helpful, though, since they've already been through some of the hurdles we're headed for with school, testing, etc. But it's nice to have someone in the same boat as me.

I was just at my brother's last night with my DD2.5 and it was fascinating to see the differences between her and my DB's daughter who's the same age. I don't mean that condescendingly because I love my niece dearly, but I find their behavior interesting to watch. I can't help but compare them, to see what an average 2.5yo does versus what my DD does in some areas. Especially since I don't always know if my DD is really doing something beyond her age or not.

On the flipside, it's sometimes awkward when my DD does something with my niece side-by-side and is clearly much better at it. For example, they once played with the same shape-sorter together. My DD picked up a shape, glanced at it and plopped it in the correct hole. However, my niece tried repeatedly to put the pieces in various holes, sometimes getting them, sometimes needing help. My DB watched the whole time, but I didn't say anything. I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable. Do you run into these kinds of situations with friends or family??

Anyway... now I'm rambling! I'm just so excited to have found another mom with a toddler! I hope we can keep in touch.

I do run into those situations all the time. My son has cousins who are anywhere from 1 to 5 year older than he is. They don't see him often, maybe once a month or so, the differences can be a bit jarring. Not jarring to the kids...jarring to my sibs and their spouses!

I'll give you a great example. We were home at my mother's house for the 4th of July and my DS and I met my sister and her 2 boys, ages 4 and 6, for lunch at Chipotle. We were enjoying the meal when suddenly DS began speaking "People we're glad to know...part five." He rambles along, reading some paragraph about a farmer, and his cousin, the 6 year old, piped up and said "What's DS talking about?" I had to explain that DS was reading the back of my drink cup.

Cousin was interested and told his mom that my DS could read! I simply, quickly said that all kids are good at different things. My nephew is learning to read in school, so I mentioned that he could read too and that he was a much faster runner than my DS is. Everyone is good at different things. Then I changed the subject.

For me, I choose not to ignore it, but also not to dwell on it. I come here when I want to talk about it in depth or chat with my DH or my mother. Otherwise, I don't downplay DS's abilities, but just to focus on his commonalities with other kids his age.

I have lots of friends here locally with kids DS's age. Some of them "know" about him, some don't, but it's not a topic I bring up. I know it will be harder to avoid talking about DS when he starts school because the differences will be up front, so for now, I'm enjoying the peace.

And you are right about the wisdom and experience of this board and the posters who are here. They are absolutely terrific!