My DS is in preschool. He is an excellent reader and has been reading since right around the time he turned two. He is one of those kids, like many here, who just seemed to spontaneously start reading on his own. We read to him regularly as a baby, but otherwise did nothing special to prompt early reading.

Now in this preschool, his teacher has been surprised at how quickly DS can read words (including big, complex words) but says DS is really resistant when it comes to sounding out words or doing any sort of phonics exercises. I guess when the teacher asks him how to spell a word, DS gets annoyed/bored/jokey immediately and simply doesn't want to. The issue isn't pressed, because... well, this is just preschool afterall! But the teacher was surprised by the apparent incongruity of a kid that reads so quickly/effortlessly but yet seems to run away when asked what sound the letter "b" makes. (FWIW, I know DS knows the letters and letter sounds because he was playing a game online a few weeks ago that had that as an element. But I don't think he can necessarily build a word with this knowledge. Then again, I've never asked him to...)

But I was wondering... for kids that start reading really early, is this normal? Maybe he has simply memorized a dictionaries worth of words so it appears that he is a fast reader, but he really doesn't know how to spell or decode words? Does that make sense?

I'd love to hear from other parents of early readers... Is this something I should actually be working on with him? We've always taken a pretty hands-off approach in terms of formal teaching in our house. Our kids are both preschool (and pre-preschool) age and our time with them is more focused on play and messy art projects and running at the park kind of things. I'm not even sure where to begin if I were supposed to teach him how to spell words at home. (?)

Sorry to ramble, hope this makes sense!

Sounds like he's a "whole language" reader. I think you're right, he probably doesn't use decoding skills in his reading.

Unfortunately, he's likely to be pretty resistant to learning that (to him, secondary) skill set by the time it is officially taught to most kindergarten and first grade students.


You're also right to be wondering about the necessity of teaching those skills now, IMO.

This is the entire reason why we intervened and (against professional advice of a family member) taught our preschooler to read. Well, I say "taught." Not really. We just got her a set of phonetically controlled readers and went through them with her for a couple of weeks.

The problem with whole language readers is that they can have difficulty with other peripheral literacy skills such as spelling, foreign language acquisition, etc. later on, and the problem with gifted children in particular is that once they know a way to do something, they are VERY resistant to instruction which 'remediates' something that they don't see as a problem. This is why we did NOT want our DD to begin reading fluently using this particular method. Not like other parents necessarily have a choice, I know.

I'd probably provide a few at-home resources to work on that other skill set (workbooks or starfall, etc. just what he likes and enjoys doing)-- and maybe see what he can do with words that you KNOW he's not seen/learned in context. If he can reason out words that he's very unlikely to have ever seen before, then it's likely that he's using some kind of decoding skill set.

I'd be cautious about assuming he's really a full-on whole language reader. He may just be resistant for other reasons (finds the question beneath him, thinks it's a trick question, hasn't consciously thought about it in ages, dislikes the teacher). I thought my self-taught DD was a whole-language reader, but when I really paid attention it became clear that she couldn't possibly be, although she did use quick whole-word recognition as part of her arsenal. Can he, for instance, sound out things like unknown dinosaur names?

FWIW, my DS4 can't spell nearly as well as he can read. I THINK this is common in early readers? He hasn't been much of a "write to learn to read" kid. DD did more of that.

Give him some easy nonsense words and see how he does in an unpressured setting, if possible. Does he not read signs all over the place, even abbreviations and things that aren't true words? (My DS is always doing this--I remember DD doing it as well. I laughed when he tried to sound out "CVS" just as she had done. "Cuvuhuzz??")

DS2 can now read maybe about 100 words ... he has a very limited vocab (speech delay) and only wants to read words that he in fact uses in real life and won't even try to read words he doesn't use. Anyways ... I noticed when he first started "reading" he would sound out the word and then read them. Now, two months later he no longer does it. He just reads the word without any sounding out. Unless he runs into a brand new word that catches his attention and then he sounds it out. But other than that I think he's at a point when he thinks sounding out is boring when he KNOWS the word.

He does sound like a whole-language reader. I think that the better the long-term memory of a young child, the more likely they are to rely on it in learning to read in this way. It can be frustrating to them to learn phonetics, as it's not as amenable to quick recall at first and it feels like slowing down to them.

I used some whimsical phonics flash cards with my older son way back when, to make sure he was getting the rules in place. We never really studied the rules intensively, but later on when I was teaching him to spell, we'd blast through up to hundreds of words on spelling lists at a time, slowing down to 40-50 in a quick session when we got to harder words. I'd take the time during those sessions to point out certain words and make sure he knew the rules at work, and the first time through the list would ask him to try to spell each word without seeing it first. This not only got him thinking about encoding and the rules, it let me quickly find out the few rules he was missing, and encouraged him to struggle to recall the spellings of words from his reading as well, another good skill for a speller to have.

actually, I should correct myself ... he will sound out unknown words, just won't read the word after that because he's not familiar with it but he will sound out all the letters when it's a new word to him that he doesn't recognize yet. DS2 is self-teaching himself so I never know where he's really at. But as long as he's having fun with it, it's fine with me! lol
_______________
... sorry if this is a double post. I posted it couple minutes ago but it's not showing up for me

My ds also started reading at 2 as a whole language reader (I guess I'm assuming most self-taught kids probably are as the ability to process phonics (especially complex ones) is a higher developmental skill. Here is where we are at 6: ds remembers almost every word he reads, so his sight -word recognition is very advanced (blows me away) . Of course he understands simple phonics...but he has a harder time sounding out phonetically complex words. But he's still waaay beyond where the typical 6 year old is.

His decoding skills are great: he references words he knows when he gets to a tough one (yesterday "refracted" was "refractured") and he does an excellent job with contextual clues - that's something he started fling really early). Although he's learning to read "backwords", his reading is continuing to advance quickly.

I think what's going to help him the most is the phonetic-spelling they encourage for journal writing. My ds loved the Leap Frog videos when he was about 2-3. Code Word Caper tackles some advanced phonics.

We didn't push spelling skills until this year - selfishly thinking It would be at least ONE thing he could learn in school.

My DS6 is quite parallel to Evemomma's description. I don't think ours is quite like Whole Reading as much as complex pattern matching. His guesses at new longer words he encounters are hilarious and sometimes when he makes a faroff guess to a new word, it is much trickier to get him to the correct reading.

And now in 1st comes spelling lists, I tried an experiment with him last night to have him close his eyes briefly and try to see the word before he tried to spell it. Seemed to help, time will tell.

Love this idea! My ds cracked me up yesterday because he couldn't recall how to spell "and" - this from the child reading the 7th grade science book last night.

...can we spell "asynchronous?"

My ds did the same thing (although he wasn't an early reader. Before he learned to read (when he was really young) he used to seem to memorize full books. Once he learned to read he was reading college-level books within a year or so... and because he seemed to learn to read so effortlessly we just never paid much attention to whether or not he had been exposed to and learned phonics at school. He has a huge vocabulary which can't possibly have all come from conversations at home and school, and he never needs to look up word definitions, so I've always guessed that he's picking up the meaning of words from the context of what he's reading.

FWIW it doesn't seem to have impacted him in other areas - he studied one foreign language when he was in elementary and did really well, and he's studying another in middle school and also doing well.

polarbear

This is my DS too. He wasn't reading as early as yours - instead he started sounding out basic words at three. He has a language processing disorder, so I'm not sure if he fits with this discussion... but now at the age of 8 he's very similar in that he prefers big, "chunky" words - he just remembers them - over smaller, simple and phonetic words. He'll mess up the easy words (i.e. say "saw" instead of "was" for example), but is quite solid and consistent with the larger, non-phonetic words.

Yes. At the TAG school my daughter goes to, they don't teach reading but they do spend part of the 1st grade year teaching all of the tricks that kids miss out on when they teach themselves to read. (I have no idea what those tricks are, I just remember her teacher saying this at curriculum night last year.)
My dd would never sound out words, she was a word memorizer. No phonics for her!

This problem isn't limited to whole language readers. I've seen numerous, though not frequent, kids who just "Get it" when it comes to math, even Algebra and Calc. They don't have to write the problem down and work through it on paper, it just computes in their head. They become very resistant and frustrated when the teacher wants them to show their work and deducts points for not doing so, it makes no sense to them, why should they have to show their work as long as they got the right answer? What work was there to show since...it wasn't work? They also often figure out their own way of doing math that indeed does work, it might not be the quickest way, however, it's the way that makes sense to them. There are pros and cons to that, they're able to solve complex math problems without being taught (a great thing), however, it's often not fast.

Yes, this is true. I think that when teachers say "Show your work," they should define what they mean. I suspect that most teachers mean, "Show it the way I wrote it out in the examples on the board." Yet their statements could easily be interpreted as "Show YOUR work, as in, what you had to write down." Sometimes, some kids just have to write the answer.

At the same time, I see huge value in learning how to write out a stepwise solution to a math problem. It's great to be able to solve problems in your head, but how can you explain (and justify) the solution if you can't also write out the logical steps it takes to get there? IMO, this is a critical skill for anyone who will ever be in a position that requires explaining something to someone. These situation would include writing something (a scientific paper, a book, a proposal, etc.), giving a talk, explaining to your boss and colleagues why your cool new method is so much better than the old one, convincing people that they should invest in your ideas, and so on.

My two children learned to read quite differently. DD, who did not learn terribly early (late 4, very nearly 5) despite having quite a few sight words as a toddler, was much more of a sight reader. She was very apt to just kind of throw a guess out there, but also clearly remembered long words that she'd run across a few times. DS learned as a young 4 and was much, much more phonetic. I thought he might be much more slow and steady than DD was, and at first he seemed to be. But now he is a meticulous reader who sounds out with speed and accuracy. Inevitably I find myself saying, "Well, it would make perfect sense to say it that way, but..." (These days he is reading tons of weather books aloud to me. Lots of hard words.) Anyway, he is absolutely phonics-based and self-taught unless you count a bit of Starfall and Word World. Oh, we did have Leapfrog Fridge Magnets! He had a phase with those.

Right, I wasn't debating that showing the process isn't needed, I agree it's necessary to know how to do so. My point was that to that student it seems silly and they become resistant to doing so. For my eldest DS, it took a very understanding AP Calc teacher to show him why it was a good thing to write down the process and visually digest it as well as computing it in his head.

Bonus tricky on the showing the work concept is a teacher can easily convey the message that they view the student as fundamentally dishonest and untrustworthy.

Right again; I also wasn't trying to imply anything about your message. I was primarily writing out ideas because I think it's worthwhile to write them out.

I'm going through this process with my eldest and even my youngest (barely 8). Both of them have minds that race, and trying to teach them that writing it all out can be a good thing is a challenge.

Yes, this is the problem that DS(now10) has. He didn't do any work to get the answer, and doesn't know what to write down. On the baby stuff that he brought home once in a while in first grade, where the question was "how do you know this is the answer?" this showed up as "because it is." Seriously, how do you show your work for 5+1 = 6? Well, I added 1 to 5, and it was 6.

DS was reading by age 2, and he never sounded anything out. He just read the words, no matter how big they were or what they looked like. I was afraid we'd have to go back and teach him phonics, but he appeared to have absorbed it through osmosis. He never had any trouble with it, he just knew it. On the Word Attack part of the WJIII when he was 5, he scored something like "15th grade" or age 21+ -- there wasn't a collection of letters there that he couldn't read.

He was also pretty resistant to the "what sound does B make" sort of questions -- luckily, he had teachers who knew not to ask him things like that. He didn't want any part of it.

Note that the "problem" in school came with his lack of comprehension. He has consistently tested "low" (which means low for him and usually around or only slightly above grade level) on comprehension, while maxing out the parts that measure ability to read. Teachers latch onto this as an area for concern, but it's perfectly understandable. When you're 2 and can read everything, naturally you don't understand what it's all about yet. That takes life experience, and a lot more reading. Gradually comprehension catches up. To me, it would be a lot worse to have more comprehension than reading skills. That would just be awful. But that's me. And, well, who among us can comprehend everything we read? Ever read the tax code? State statutes? Bills before Congress?

Hi sweetpeas,

My DS5 was/is like that where he started reading around 2 (phonetically) and could within a pretty short time read most any word, memorizing the ones that aren't phonetic.

I think it was on here someone had a suggestion for a online reading assessment, wish I could remember the name of it, can't find it in the archives...we did that around late 3 early 4, I think it was $15. It was quite thorough, not just a reading level based on lists of words. I was surprised what a huge discrepancy there was between his scores at decoding/word-reading (ceiling), comprehension (around 5th or 6th grade at the time), and spelling (preschool or K level).

I think he just learned to read so long ago that he has so little memory of the slow sound-it-out stage that despite him being a phonetic reader it's just "too deep" to access easily for spelling purposes. Now at 5 he's still around 2nd in spelling. I think he's even forgotten things he used to love like silent Ps.

We hadn't up til now felt the need to actively teach him any spelling skills, he'll get a lot of it in school and even with the discrepancy he's still ahead. But we just started to work on it a little at home, mostly because he has a fine motor issue with printing. His confidence with writing is really low so we want to try to remove what barriers we can so that he has the least amount of frustration with it.

I think it would depend on what your goals are whether you actively address the spelling or not. You said he's preschool age now, if he'll go to K and 1st on schedule then there's an awful lot of repetition there to learn spelling and he may over those years get ahead on his own just through paying attention to how words are spelled. If he's happy enough to use invented spelling then that won't hold him back from expressing himself on paper. But if for example he's 4 and you are thinking of skipping K next year then some focus on spelling this year would keep from obscuring his other abilities in 1st.

Polly

DS4.75 is also a self taught whole word reader, now at about a gr3-4 level. Phonics has kind of come along this year by itself. He also would give a stupid smile if someone asked him what sound this letter makes. He can spell simple 3-4 letter phonic type words. He hates doing invented spelling though as he knows the words aren't right (and he is a perfectionist). So I have started to tell him the harder words or write them for him to copy figuring that with exposure and use he will remember them (which he does). School might teach him the formal rules (maybe??). He is skipping K so I have started trying to encourage more writing at home.

Sweetpeas
DS 6.5 was an early reader and also found phonics very irritating. But to me at the time it seemed more symptomatic of how slow he found prek, he couldn't believe how much time they spent doing it when you could READ! He tends to be a whole word reader but does try to work it out on his own, which is hysterical with big words - what, what? So I would say he was totally resistant to it but did eventually pay attention to it.Although he advanced so quickly and has such a large vocab now that he does what adults do - ask or look it up.

Two fun ways to work on it - even for early readers - although you have a short window here before it becomes too easy - starfall, website and app - for non readers but if you want to go over it, it's fun and nicely presented so maybe less resistance. And wordworld on PBS - you made a word - very visual way of phonics. DS loved the idea of it and enjoyed the sweet approach but as a reader he moved on quickly - super why too, although that's less phonics if I remember correctly.

DeHe

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I got a lot of great ideas for things to check out to encourage him with phonics.

Much to think about. This board is always so insightful!!

Going along with DeHe's recommendations, I also recommend the older PBS product-- Between the Lions.

Between the Lions at PBS website

DD loved BTL even after she could read perfectly well, and it's pretty much entirely phonics and phonemic awareness. It's just plain snarky/funny and entertaining, though. So that helps tremendously. If only all instruction were so engaging.

At my daughter's preschool the teachers will rarely prompt her to read to them. More often, they encourage her to spell out the names of pictured items with alphabet letters. I've attended one parent teacher conference, and the teacher stated that she had many students who could read well, but spell poorly, and she wanted to make my daughter more well rounded. DD reads English phonetically anyway (she was a big fan of Starfall). She can practice her recall when she reads Chinese.

I have fond memories of trying to get my housework done while my kids were laughing hysterically while Between the Lions was on - they loved that show - even long after they knew how to read

polarbear

My daughter was an early reader(4) and hated phonics and spelling at this age. Kindergarten teacher kept wanting her to sound out words. She refused. Writing was also hard because she had 5 year old small motor skills and 10 year old reading skills. 2nd grade she could spell any word put in front of her. She developed spelling skills from the many hours spent reading. 6th grade she won the regional spelling bee in our area. Handwriting is still atrocious, but she can type. Message is that kids will develop at their own rate, at their own time. If your child like phonics go with it. If your child is not interested leave it and let nature take it course.

While on the PBS topic...

I love the new (and old) Electric Company. They do a lot of phonics and grammar - and they're fun. My ds cracked me up last year when he pronounced the -ED on every word (like wretched)...but he globalized it to all past tense words. "I walked-ed to the store" (for example). When I corrected him on this...he cited me the Electric Company and the rap he learned-ed.

DD(4) is a similarly quirky early reader. I guess DD was peculiar in that she read very fluently from early on, (once she switched from sounding out to whole language reading at just turned three.) I have played back videos of her reading at three and they are astounding. She always read with full comprehension and used inflection and correct pausing. These were second grade texts at three-years-old. I now realize that that is uncommon for new readers to sound so fluent.

I think she never stumbled in decoding because her grasp on the contextual clues was so strong. And, this is still the case. She does not like to fall back on sounding out words when she gets confused and loses her 'flow'. It is too much work, so she will just give up. This happens with the thicker books, and is the reason she has not progressed. Conversely, she cannot read as well without any context. She does not automatically read environmental print as much as she should because she misses the context clues and would have to sound out.

I figured it would give her something to work on in kindergarten. (Right now she is in an academic free preschool.) I have tried to encourage her to sound out words but it is like pulling teeth. I do appreciate some of the suggestions here.