Most folks who post here seem to know that their child is gifted from the time the child is a toddler. I see a lot of threads asking if a two or three year old kid is gifted. I can understand that you can recognize a gifted kid when they are PG, but what about other kids?

I ask because my middle kiddo didn’t seem so sharp when she was younger. My eldest thinks it was downright mean for me to state, “This one is not college material; we don’t need to have a college fund for her.” And we did not establish a college fund for her until many years later (she is now 14, almost 15).

In my defense, I did not see her doing many of the things that made me think that the eldest, now 17, was bright. (We didn’t really think DD17 was gifted either, just a bit ahead of the average kid). We also had DD14 repeat 2nd grade when she switched from a private school to public school, though that was really for social reasons, not academic reasons. I should note that she is now in the “correct” grade per the public school birthday cutoff; the private school had a different cutoff date. Both DD17 and DD14 have been labeled gifted per the school based upon IQ tests (FSIQ > 130).

Has anyone else had the same experience?

I don't know that mine didn't seem gifted so much that I didn't recognize what it was until the oldest was 6.5. My oldest seemed challenging and high needs. My youngest, now coming up on 12 in a month, did strike me as unusually verbal b/c, although most of the babies in my family speak somewhat early including my older one, dd11 was a big talker. She was putting two words together at 5.5 months and just never stopped talking.

I, like you, tended to just assume that they were above average or that the baby milestone books like the "what to expect" series was low balling everything for kids who were at the low end of expectations. I realized that my older one was gifted after assuming the she was slow b/c she was having such a terrible time in 1st grade will a drill happy teacher who had terrible rapport with young children. She was working very slowly, so we assumed that she'd just be a "C" student and argued that point vociferously with her teacher. We wound up pulling her out to homeschool and that was the point where someone else suggested to me that she was gifted.

FWIW, she's turned out to be a HG+ kid (IQ, etc.). In hindsight, it probably was more obvious than I realized, though. She wasn't solving algebraic equations at five or reading at 18 months, but there were signs there and I think that HG+ or even PG doesn't require prodigy status. The things that looked like "difficult" were probably all part and parcel of the giftie stuff.

My older one seemed to be the opposite of gifted for about 7-8 years. He's 2E. The younger one always seemed gifted.

The people who post here are probably not an average cross-section of the gifted-parent populace, disregarding for a moment the actual levels of giftedness of their children. I believe that they tend to be self-selected to a certain degree based on educational needs, but also in some cases based on an apparent desire to have a gifted child, and as gifted as possible at that. We also have some people post here in attempts to get confirmation that they themselves are different flavors of gifted, with more or less solid foundations for their self-conceptions.

For such people not only do I think that they will tend to see giftedness in every glint from a child's eyeball, but they may have convenient memories in some cases as well regarding their children's development. For IQ-obsessed parents who find little or no objective support over time for their beliefs about their children, many of them must stay away from this place out of fear. That leaves the others, who have some degree of confirmation.

I still remember a post on another message board by a mother whose child was refusing to eat soon after birth, and on that basis was reportedly diagnosed by an attending physician as profoundly gifted. It was difficult to tell whether it was a clever tweak of the other posters' egos, whether the poster was inflating something actually said by a doctor, or whether some doctor really felt he or she had a sound basis for a diagnosis of profound giftedness in infancy.

Those hopeful mommies and daddies aren't the whole picture, of course. Though the word "always" is awfully strong, I do think that a lot of parents here have a valid notion their children are highly gifted before getting confirmation through testing. Sometimes it's impossible to ignore; there are true positives in with the false ones. And for a parent whose child has extremely early milestones and does turn out to be HG+, it's hard to say that their instincts were false, whether retroactively applied or not.

He seems like a normal kid to me, he's just very smart too.  Nurture or nature?  He has a family tree full of 'em plus a mother who started educating him on the 3r's.  He loves cartoon network and playing tag.  He easily learned early academics that some kids twice his age struggle with.  

You'll never know if they were  born to be smart or if it was nature vs. nurture.  If a parent educates their child it shows the parent enjoys education, or else they wouldn't have stuck with it; nurture as a proof of nature. 


And I'm glad for that.  It ruffled 
my feathers to read parents posting elsewhere variations of, "I sometimes wish my kid weren't gifted.". Rude.  Why?!  


From the little while I've been a regular here I've seen a few of the parents of older gifted kids move on.  They've said it is because this board was good for them when they needed it, but their advocacy has been done, their kids are almost grown.  There are some parents of olders still here either because their advocacy is not finished and/or to help those of us coming after.  The bulk of parents posting about giftedness are understandably elementary school or preschool because that's when issues appear, advocacy appears, and testing happens.  I imagine the posters with gifted babies have a history related to giftedness, or a family history; sometimes it's the daycare worker who tells them.  

But posters here do like their giftedness, thank goodness.  

Enough about me, let's talk about you.  So what you didn't know?  You raised your kid like every generation of parents before you.  You just raise your kids, and that's all, just like the rest of us.  

http://www.meritaid.com/

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/

^^ here's where the parents of gifted teens go ^^

My oldest was clearly gifted from infancy, but my son (2e) was/is either "hot or cold." He had/has these moments that just amaze me, and other times he's "on the moon" clued out. Plus I have no experience with "normal" so sometimes in comparison to his older sister he seems slow. Then I get a glimpse of where he's at with certain things compared to his friends and think "wait, he's not so slow after all." He's full of contradictions. He can do things he's not supposed to be able to with his diagnoses and often times his behavior doesn't make sense (until you think "2e").

So in answer to your question... yes and no! ;p

I think it depends. All four of mine carry the "gifted" label, so it was sort of hard to say "well, this one is this way, as opposed to that one...". Dh was a gifted student, and I would have been had they invented gifted programs back in the pre-flood days. So it really didn't cross my mind that the kids wouldn't be.
Overall, they've always seemed pretty bright, albeit with asynchronous milestones (especially Miss 2E). Well, except when they've been doing really intensely ridiculous things like fingerpainting the living room walls with craft paint, which showed a complete disregard for outcome-based planning. And when I say "fingerpainting", we're not talking Gauguin or Van Gogh or even Grandma Moses. More like the bastard child of Haring and Pollock, which I figure is pretty age-typical for three.
OTOH, I don't see a whole lot of point in pursuing a gifted diagnosis at two. I mean...what does it change? What's the benefit? It's the same kid, either way, and you meet their needs, not the needs of a label. The only use I've really found for it is in regards to public schooling. Or bragging rights, I suppose, though IME after the first couple of kids the shiny wears off of that and you're desperate to avoid talking to casual subway acquaintances about what an odd little duck your kid is.

I'm so glad you posted this because it's the thread I've been wanting to start. Sure, I thought my two were the cutest, smartest little kids in the world, in the same way that I think MOST moms view their kids and in the way that I believe every child deserves to be viewed by their mom. Sure, I thought they were smart, maybe even gifted a little.

BUT DYS-level gifted? I had no idea. The child psychologist kept telling me they were gifted and telling me the things they did were unusual. Frankly, I didn't believe her. I simply felt like my children had the benefit of a mother who read to them, talked to them, took them to museums, etc. I felt that many children would be like my two if their parents were able to spend a lot of time with them, reading, etc.

When the child psychologist met with me and showed me their scores, which well-qualified them for DYS on several metrics, I responded that their scores simply resulted from me reading to them a lot. The child psychologist said reading to children doesn't necessarily get those types of scores. I don't know. These two are my first, and I haven't worked around children or been around them much.

I'm still very much trying to wrap my head around this. I feel happiest just thinking of continuing to do what we do -- reading, learning, trying to have experiences.

At the same time, I'm blown out of the water that one new DYS scholar is a model of cooperation in speech therapy if the therapist puts little stickers on a chart for good cooperation. (He hates ST because it seems babyish to him.) I'm equally blown out of the water that upon hearing that a nest of rattlesnakes had been found in a ditch, my other new DYS scholar, a newly turned 7 year-old girl, took off down the ditch with a 4 year-old to get some rattlesnakes.

Thank you for starting the thread and letting me express what I've been wanting to say for awhile.

I never had any thoughts about DS11 or DD9 being gifted until they were tested. DS was diagnosed with ADHD/dysgraphia through testing but the tester also emphasized how gifted he is. His giftedness was really hard to see early on because of his tremendous struggles with learning to read, writing and spelling.

DD9 DYS has attracted regular comments about how "smart" she is throughout her life but I never paid much attention until a friend from church, our area public school gifted coordinator, urged me to have her tested. Yikes was I surprised.

I now realize in retrospect that her single-minded, weeks long role playing of being a milk snake, being John in "Peter Pan" (the most boring character in my opinion) etc. etc. ad nauseum was a sign of her focus and intelligence. It just seemed so bizarre at the time.

One time during Christmas I was dropping her at Montessori (she was 3) and she told me a long story about baby Jesus being born and immediately smacking the sheep at the manger in the face. I tried to explain that Jesus didn't go around hitting anyone and newborn babies can't really hit at all. However, she refused to go inside until I verbally scolded Jesus and told him three times not to hit the sheep. Gifted? Well, maybe, but not as easy to spot as walking at 6 months or reading before 3. Probably not something I would have posted in the "Ultimate Brag Thread" although it gave me a good laugh at the time.

That, and what lucounu said, are also part of it for me. So many other parents exaggerated what their kids were doing that it made me less aware how atypical my dds were. Some of what I was hearing sounded like bs to me like the parent who told me that her kids were speaking in sentences @ 18 months and whose kids I was around at that age and who were barely saying a few single words, so I doubted that, but other things I had no basis for having information on and I assumed that their kids were actually doing whatever they claimed. Plus, my oldest was late with gross motor skills, so having other babies who were walking at 11 months when mine wasn't walking until 15 months seemed to cancel out her areas where she was ahead of them IMO.

By the time I was realizing that my oldest was gifted, I was getting more and more clued in to the fact that parents who were telling me that their kindergarteners were reading at a 3rd grade level when I had just seen them struggling to sound out the word "dog" and whose parents shared that said 3rd grade level was a DRA level 8, for instance, were really far off in their estimations. However, until I realized the inflation that was going on elsewhere, I figured that they all had their areas where they were ahead or behind -- just like my kiddo.

Exactly, Cricket.

We really thought that people who expressed "amazement" or gushed about DD were just... I don't know... 'sucking up' to us or something, I guess. You know, because all parents love to hear others tell them how remarkable their special snowflakes are.

Looking back, it was a combination of things that led us to more-or-less ignore the matter until it became unavoidable at kindy registration. We fully expected "bright" and probably even "MG" in our child(ren). But, as the saying goes... Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

We found her funny and entertaining to be around, and we heard other parents share (grossly inflated) anecdotes about their kids, so we figured "sure-- DD is like that too" and they figured that WE were exaggerating when we were simply telling the unvarnished version of her antics...

As first-time parents without much experience of young children, it simply didn't seem that weird that other adults we knew enjoyed her company as well. She seemed to fit in effortlessly everywhere, so she has always been the ultimate chameleon to those who don't know her well. Our colleagues who had children of their own often remarked on just how unusual she was, but we didn't think much of it. Don't all 3yo's sit quietly with a stack of books in a corner seat in faculty meetings for two or three hours?

For background, my DD7 is not DYS-level gifted, she's MG (~135). I'd been invited to join Mensa based on my old high school SAT scores, but otherwise, neither myself nor my wife knew anything about giftedness until DD encountered school issues in K, and the school started using the term. I had no experience with children under 3, so I had no basis for comparison. My wife, on the other hand, had extensive experience with young children, though most of it was with family members, and it has become apparent to us over time that her reference data set is skewed.

And yet, despite our child not being quite as far outside the norm as many here, and despite our relative ignorance about normal development, we managed to identify some early markers that indicated she was very different.

- At around 4mos, she quit letting anyone dress her in clothes she didn't like. We had to let her pick her own outfits. In order to quit wasting money, that meant we had to involve her in shopping for them... which she was all too eager to do.

- We had decided to work out some baby signs at 6mos so she could ask for the basics... but when the time arrived, she already had a verbal "word" for nearly everything she needed.

- At around 6-8mos, she was consistently showing the ability to focus on an entire 20-minute cartoon designed for much older children, and react appropriately to the content. I have a photo at 9mos with her and her 6yo cousin watching Spongebob together, wearing identical expressions.

The bit with the early verbal development, we were constantly talking at/with her, so we could explain that away. The other two had no explanations.

We kinda figured, partially because we were both reading very early. But first kid, even with a background in psychology, it's hard to know. He got real curious about the alphabet by two and I thought that was cool. But we knew he had his own masterplan by pre-school.

It strikes me that not every kid with exceptional Cans expresses exceptional Needs.

I don't believe early or otherwise exceptional development of secondary sexual characteristics to be correlated with giftedness at all. I can tell from your use of caps that you feel deeply about this, but can we please try to stay on topic?

doh

I figured dd was sort of bright high-achiever type--I mean I was identified as gifted (but not well-served) and I always thought of myself as sort of a bright underachiever. Dd also didn't blow her teachers away because she really likes to observe and wouldn't attempt to do something until she was sure she could do it well, and was very compliant and teacher-pleasing. In retrospect her giftedness as a little kid (toddler-3rd gradeish) showed more at home with emotional intensity and extreme perfectionism. Academically I figured she was likely smart but doing so well because of enrichment in the home. I remember one of her very good friends (who I suspect is PG) was reading magic tree house books at 4 and dd wasn't doing that so my measuring stick was a little off. I would not have anticipated that she would have DYS scores or be such a strong candidate for a grade skip. I really underestimated her greatly, and am just happy that despite that she still has a love of learning.

dd#2 is a different story. She started walking the day after we adopted her at 10 months old and never slowed down. She was exhausting in every way and I figured she was smart but was too overwhelmed by getting through the day with her to question whether she was gifted or not. Many times she would say or do something and the adults would look at each other like, "Did she really just say/do that?" When she was 3 I finally made the connection. She is not any kind of math or reading prodigy--but she is absolutely some level of gifted. Waiting for her to turn 6 to take the WISC and consider a grade skip depending on results.

Giftedness wasn't on my radar when I became a parent. At all. My therapist background tended to cause me to worry about delays /pathology - and my yardstick for development in the kids I see is way skewed.

We figured ds reading at 2 was quirky and "neat" but really didn't jump to any conclusions. He also started doing math extremely early, so we thought, "Hey, he's pretty smart." He loved to do workbooks and flashcards and look at anything maps or science - and frankly, that completely freaked me out. I wasn't sure if he had aspergers or a lack of imagination or what.

It wasn't until we looked into K that we started realizing that he was really ahead...that and our pediatrician urged us to look into giftedness. I also have s friend (teacher) who kept insisting ds was gifted - but I really thought she was just being encouraging. DS is nearly 6, so we haven't formally had him tested. It is possible that we are wrong.

With my dd2... no clue what's in store for us. She's a super early talker but not reading yet the way ds was. I talk about her here not because I think she's gifted, but because I value the advice opinions and congeniality here.

...and because FB makes me crazy (as do Mommy Boards).

My verbally gifted son always seemed very bright academically. Other people noticed it. I could see it in his eyes and the high energy that seemed to be focused on learning constantly. He was also highly sensitive. He always noticed things that I didn't. An older cousin noticed that he used a lot of similes and metaphors in his speech. He was preschool age at the time. When he was preschool age one of his doctors wrote "seems to be high IQ" on his chart. When he was about six and studying Shakespeare in musical theater class he memorized a lot of Shakespeare quotes and used them. For example, I told him that I thought he did something he wasn't supposed to do and he replied, "then die thy thoughts" in his best Shakespearean voice. Before he turned five he went on a bus ride with older kids from church. They asked him to identify words that they spelled out for him. They gave him the hardest words they could think of--science words--but he could identify science words easily because his favorite book at the time was a science encyclopedia. He also knew some multiplication and could do some mental math so they would occasionally ask him math questions, and he would get the right answer most of the time but he rarely missed a word that was spelled out for him, so that was more fun.

But he was born with low muscle tone and mild muscle weakness and did not have the strength to walk until he was 18 months old. He started reading and spelling words one year after he was able to walk. When he was tested by child developmental specialists at 12 months they said he was 50% delayed in gross motor skills but 50% ahead in receptive and expressive language skills. During the test he saw his alphabet book with the letter A and excitedly said A. Later he got excited when he saw the letter B on our piano. When he was older he did well in spelling bees. He loved to read books that were at a higher age level because lower level books did not contain the rich vocabulary that he liked. He always liked to read and analyze and discuss books-- but when he was younger his eyes got tired quickly because of so we had to take turns reading. He also played video games with kids several years older and memorized lines and lyrics faster than most of the older kids when he was young. He just fit in better with kids several years older. They were the only ones who got his jokes and understood the higher level vocabulary he used and were interested in the things he was interested in.

Except for the handwriting issues because his hands got tired quickly, and needing to rest during musical theater dance rehearsals because he fatigued faster than other kids, his mild low muscle tone didn't cause that much trouble for him. We homeschooled and he taught himself to type at 60 wpm on QWERTY and then later taught himself to use DVORAK because he thought it would be easier on his hands if he had to do a lot of typing. He writes well as long as he can type. He is teaching himself Japanese and German.

When he was 11 he found out that in addition to sensory and fatigue issues, he had developed scoliosis and would have to wear a painful brace for three or four years--until he stops growing. Trying to balance brace time and sleep and exercise is impossible and stressful. We deal with a lot of anxiety about this. Lack of sleep and hours of pain every day can slow anyone down. It can look like ADD, especially when he gets a migraine. I get those too, we are both sensitive to weather changes so we take breaks when we need to. He doesn't have the energy that he used to have. It might look to some people like he isn't as gifted as he once was, because he isn't doing a lot of writing or making a lot of progress in piano right now because he has to take so many breaks, but when he is out of the brace--hopefully by next summer, he will rebuild his strength and I think he will be mentally stronger from having had to deal with the disabilities.

LOL!

Thanks for the replies. One thing DD14 used to do that made me think that she wasn't too bright was to mix up opposites. I really should have kept track of the things she would mix up, but the most notable was hot and cold. She would say something hot was cold and vice versa, even though we would point out her mistake. This went on until she was about six years old. Once in a while she still asks for the definition of a word (can't think of an example right now). It will be a word that you seldom use, but you know the definition - often DD8 will know the definition.

On the other hand, looking back, she did have good spatial relation skills at a young age (and others pointed this out to us).

La Texican, thanks for the College Confidential link. I look at that site often, though DD17 has no interest in looking at the advice there.

My first-born (now eight) is at least highly-gifted, and I pretty much "knew it" from infancy with her. My youngest is probably highly-gifted too (he's 3.5 years old) but we're still waiting to see how all of that unfolds. I always used to refer to my second-born as our "blessedly average" one (not in front of her -- but when close friends would have some type of unspoken expectation of her because of her older sister, we would make it clear that her achievement levels were in the "normal" range and that we were just as happy and proud of HER as we were of her older sister).

However, a couple of years ago I was talking with a parent of one of my former students who has five kids (now teenagers or adults) who are all highly-gifted or profoundly-gifted. We started off talking about my oldest (who was in kindergarten at the time), but she kept asking about my SECOND daughter. I kept telling her that my second daughter (she wasn't even in kindergarten yet) was academically very normal with all of her milestones like letter and number identification being hit at the "normal" time...but she actually had SOME of the EMOTIONAL characteristics of gifted kids to an even greater extent than my oldest daughter (much more sensitive...a worry-wart...perfectionism...etc.). This other mom just looked at me point-blank finally and said, "You KNOW your second daughter is gifted, right? She may not be reading yet and stuff like that, but she's ABSOLUTELY gifted." I just kinda smiled and nodded...but thought she was just one of those moms of gifted kids who saw giftedness everywhere she looked and just didn't really think much about it.

Well, my second daughter remained "blessedly average" through kindergarten...but her little lightbulb turned on very early in first grade and she finished the year scoring at the 99th percentiles in the math and reading sections of SAGES. She's now performing at a high level in her self-contained full-time high ability class as a second grader. Stinker. :-)

My son, youngest of three, didn't initially strike me as gifted partly because in the family culture he got tagged as the cute, goofy, baby brother.

Then one day, his pre-school teacher said, "S is very, very, smart," and I began reinterpreting some of his behavior.

For example, he loved to do watch video of rockets blasting off and doing the countdown, "10, 9, 8, 7...." I realized he was moe interested in the numbers than the rocket. (This reminds me of Andrew Wiles, who solved Fermat's Last Theorem. His mother said that when she read him a book, he was more interested in the page numbers than the story.) Later, his abilities became more immediately apparent, such as when he could look at a clock and say it's 23 minutes before the hour, or when he devised his own methods of doing 2 and 3 place multiplication in his head.

What I'm trying to say is that there are a variety of family dynamics and personal filters that affect our evaluation of other people--similar to my missing how much dementia my father was developing.

I'm horrible at telling how intelligent my kids are or where they are supposed to be developmental-wise.

The only thing that I can tell is that my oldest seems more intelligent than my youngest and that they both seem less intelligent and more socially functional than I was at their ages.

I think that you have to have significant outside testing/observation to get an answer from people who have seen enough to know what they are talking about.

My DD10 is in one of the "gifted" programs for reading, but she is frustrated by math. I should get her IQ tested just so I can have some idea of where she is.

I've personally gotten better at figuring out intuitively who is going to test at IQ < 70 now that I've been interacting with them for a few years.

In my professional world, IQ < 70 = good legal case and financial success (for me and them).

LOL this is me and my friend's daughter. I KNOW this kid is gifted but her mom just doesn't see it (relying too much on report card results). She has the emotional intensities and is incredibly detail oriented and socially precocious. One of these days the light switch will get flicked and her mom will see it too

fwtxmom, I LOVE the smacking the baby Jesus story. Hysterical. That story is SO MUCH like my DD3. I can't believe the amount of time I spend talking to stuffed animals, dolls, imaginary friends and, yes, scolding them for hitting. My DD gets in what we call "duck fights" with her favorite stuffed duck and I have to separate them some times. I feel like an idiot talking to a stuffed duck, much less disciplining one, but she's so convincing and insistent. She's starting a new preschool and has been going through extensive roll playing about it with her dolls and animals and imaginary friends, and I made the mistake of mentioning it at my Mom's group (I assumed all the kids were doing it!) and they looked at me like I was nuts. This story makes me feel so much better. Thanks for sharing!

And can I just say I'm SO TIRED of spending weeks talking about the interior emotional life of a stuffed duck-- his conflicts, triumphs, fights with DD?! It's just so weird. I feel like I'm losing my mind when it goes on so long. Once when I was really tired, I even addressed him directly by mistake. What does that say about me?

At least the duck has an well-developed interior emotional life.

Can you imagine what would happen if the duck was cold and unfeeling or had only a very restricted range of emotions?

A diagnosis of Auktistic Spectrum Disorder?

My friend K and I did this to each other with our youngest kids. We both have older identified gifted kids. I kept saying to her that I could see that her youngest kid was gifted but wasn't sure about my youngest. She saw things exactly the opposite. Subsequently, they both qualified for the school's gifted program. Maybe the two boys sitting in the back of minivan challenging each other with mulit-digit math problems at age 4 should have given both of us a clue.

We didn't have a clue that our oldest was gifted until she was about 5, and it wasn't until she was 7 that DH finally accepted her LOG (PG). We were living overseas and interacting with international businessmen and women and their families, as well as diplomats, so mostly well educated folks, so we didn't see the difference between her and the majority of the population until we moved back to the US when she 4, and then it took us a while to really see it.
The complete conversations at age 1 and her fluent Japanese a year after leaving the country should have been a clue, but....

Our younger one - well we're more aware of it because it is like deja vu! We are having conversations with her that are almost identical to ones we had with the older one years ago. Her personality is very different, but her response tot hings and her pattern of development are so much like her sister's it is impossible to ignore/deny her giftedness, although we will wait a couple more years before we have her tested.

I had absolutely no clue that my son was gifted until the preschool teacher pointed it out. I just assumed that his abilities reflected the fact that he had an older sibling that he was *picking things up* from.

Of course with the benefit of hindsight I now recognise that what he was doing was not the norm.

My oldest was very obvious. Youngest was much less advanced as a toddler--spoke later and with less complexity, didn't meet other milestones as early (I would say he was 6 months behind her, if not more). We thought he was our "easy," less precocious one. As he's gotten older, the possibility that he going to test higher than DD seems more and more likely.

However, he does not have the classic gifted personality like she does. At times he does get frustrated and is a bit perfectionist, and he can be emotionally sensitive--but on the "gifted personality traits" scale, she is like 9+ and he's a 3. He blends in anywhere.