Let me start off with an apology. I read pretty much everything here, but jump into other discussion threads less often because I don't really have much in the way of experience to share. I regret that because I know that a good message board member posts in all threads, not just starting her own. I intend to do that, but since we are just starting out in this journey, please forgive me if my posts are sporadic.

I�d love to share an observation with all of you and ask if anyone has dealt with this issue when your children were younger (or now) and how you handled it. Graham is 2y10m old.

Graham is obsessed with numbers. I don�t use the word obsessed lightly. He eschews normal 3 year old toys to flip through the huge phone book looking at all the words and numbers. He jumps up in excitement when he gets to page 865 or whatever little goal page he has set in his head. He loves the crossword books my husband has. He likes all the numbers in the boxes. His favorite �toy� is a huge over-sized calculator that my parents bought him. When we are at other people�s homes (like last night when we went to a playgroup after school), he stands in their kitchen and stares at the clock on the microwave, announcing each new minute as it appears. Woe to the hostess who is actually cooking something in the microwave, he won�t move away from watching the numbers until the timer beeps.

His favorite activity to do with me is math on his chalkboard � I write out addition and subtraction problems and he gives me the answers, or we just write out big numbers (into the hundreds of thousands). He also LOVES Chutes and Ladders because the numbers go to 100.

My concern is that he doesn�t play with other kids much. Graham�s teacher reports that he only engages in group play about 25% of the time, and last night, at the playgroup, not at all. When the object he is obsessing over is removed, i.e. when we put the phone books away for the night, take the CD player out of his room (he will stare at the track counter and memorize the song numbers until very late at night), he goes crazy. Inconsolable crying. Teacher at school confirms this behavior in class as well.

So I guess my question to all of you is: are/were your children obsessed with something? And if that obsession lead to undesirable behaviors (refusing to stay in bed, anti-social habits), did you take away or try and redirect the interest?

My husband feels that we shouldn�t let him lose himself in these activities like he does. On one hand I feel like if this is Graham�s thing, let him go to it. And maybe true interactive play doesn�t start until later (although I see kids his same age in his class playing together all the time). On the other hand, I want him to learn to play and interact with other kids and letting him sit for, literally, 40 minutes at a stretch punching numbers on a calculator or reading a phone book doesn�t help that goal.

Any experience and wisdom you can share on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I have no advice for you. I did have a friend who did something similar and eventually that obsession was replaced with something else. Have you spoken w/ his pediatrician about this? What about older kids that can play the math games with him? HOw does he do then? My only naive advice would be to get him out and about as much as possible to zoos, museums, etc to broaden his world beyond his obsession w/ numbers.

Not to feed his obsession, but to breathe new life into Chutes and Ladders we play it with a pair of dice. You can add or subtract the dice to put yourself in a more favorable position. You can even get negative numbers so you can move backwards if it'll get you to a ladder or helps to avoid a chute.

Obsession was the story of DS7's young life. His was anything with wheels. Still is, to some extent. He used to memorize the Consumer Report car edition while he potty trained, and I always said that if we were hit by a hit-and-run driver, DS would ID the car for me, since he could tell you the make and model of anything on the road. Then for a while it was construction equipment. And then he knew all about NASCAR, even though no one in the family liked NASCAR at all. For the past year or so, he's advanced to Transfomers, even though not all of them have wheels. Progress!

Even before the cars, he obsessed over these letter and number puzzles we have. Between 12-16 months or so, he would spend probably 8 hours a day with the puzzles, and I credit them with his learning to read so early. He didn't want to do anything else but those puzzles, though BELIEVE ME, I tried to persuade him! We callhim our laser because he was just hyperfocused on his interests from the very beginning.

This is not unusual for an HG+ child.

To ease your mind a little, now at 7yo, DS is a friendly, well-adjusted, kind boy who plays well with others and makes friends with ease.

The first question I would have for you is what's your son's personality like? Is he an introvert by nature, happy to immerse himself alone in his obsession for hours, recharged by time alone? Or is he an extrovert, who needs the social time to be recharged, and you think the obsession is a sign that he's unhappy?

If the former, then I wouldn't worry too much. There's nothing wrong with being an introvert. Introverts are not by definition anti-social. They just thrive on time alone. Nothing wrong with that!

And as for his obsession, that's not really a big deal. He'll outgrow it if you don't stand between him and his obsession. Set some rules about when and where he can exercise his obsession so that the taking away doesn't seem random to him: no numbers at bedtime, for example. But beyond that, let him have it. It's not hurting him, and standing between a child and an obsession is a great way to cement a power struggle. Why? You won't win, since he is going to care about what he cares about, and ultimately it's a dumb thing to pick a fight over. Pick your battles!

If, however, you think he's an extrovert and he's burying himself in the numbers because he's unhappy, then that's cause for concern. I'm guessing this is not so.

Not everyone is wildly social. Especially at age 2! Some people like to be by themselves a lot. The big difference is between no friends and 1 friend. Try to see to it that he finds at least one friend with whom he shares some interests and playtime in the next year or so. Playing outside could help with this, since there are no numbers to obsess about outside.

But overall, I think you're going to be fighting a losing battle if you try to curb his interest. And really, what's the harm? Why is his love of numbers any less worthy of respect than my love of the Norse or some other adult's love of crocheting or golf or poetry? Why try to "fix" it? Leave it alone, set some reasonable limits and follow them consistently, and let him be who he is. Eventually he'll get over it and move on to a new obsession...usually right after you spent a fortune on Christmas gifts related to the old obsession!

If he is actually engaging in group play 25% of the time before age 3, I don't think this is that bad. I think boys especially take a little longer to get interested in playing WITH other children. Which is purely anecdotal, based on having a son and a daughter and watching kids at preschool for 4 years and how social relationships play out.

I would continue to watch it and maybe talk to your pediatrician. If it is a preference thing, then I wouldn't worry too much. If he seems UNABLE to engage with other kids/people over the next 6-9 months, that may be another matter.

My DS4 still doesn't play much with other kids his own age. As his preschool teacher reported, "He is starting to warm up to letting the other kids join him when he's doing an activity by himself." But he's a happy, well-adjusted kid, so I didn't worry much. I also noticed in early childhood classes that the girls tended to play with each other earlier than the boys.

re: obsession. DS4 is obsessed right now with tower defense type computer games. We have limited his computer time now, but everything else is related to it. If he draws a picture, it will be about the characters in the tower defense games. All lego creations are related to tower defense. When we were on the plane recently, he took his snack and created a tower defense game by sticking carrots into a bun. When we play outside, he creates tower defense mazes. If he can get an adult to talk with him (which he prefers), he'll tell them about tower defense. So, we're familiar with obsession. Since he's getting exercise and doing other fun kid stuff along with this obsession, we're not too worried. (Last year, the obsession was mini-golf.)

I would only worry if the obsession is interfering with the rest of normal childhood activities.

St. Pauli - I cannot tell you how much of DS7's conversation relates back to whatever he is playing on the computer most recently. Lately it Civilazation 4 and some free Mario download we got over the weekend.

DS was in his last year of preschool (4 3/4 - 5 1/2) before he really LOVED playing with other kids. He had a best friend that year, who we still miss.

DD almost 4 is almost TOO social. She is absolutely obsessed with all the older girls at preschool. I'd actually take a number or letter obsession for her about now.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. Graham is a really happy, well adjusted kid, I think. He's affectionate and talkative with us and seems really happy. Something Kriston said struck me. He is a bit shy and introverted and he is used to spending time by himself. Maybe I notice the numbers thing (and it disturbs me most) when it manifests itself in settings where he is encountering other people. Maybe the numbers thing is, in part, a social defense mechanism for when he's feeling uneasy.

He has a t-shirt that he likes to wear that says Go Play Outside. I think I need to take his shirt's advice this summer and get him to the park with friends as often as possible. Then again, his favorite thing to do at the park is to have me push him on the swings while he counts. As in "We'll stop when we get to 286. Okay, mommy?"

I will bring this all up with his pediatrician at his 3 year check up in July. I'll make it a point to ask for a few extra minutes when we make the appointment so she'll have the time.

In the meantime, when we're at home relaxing, I'll make some boundaries and let him go. And yes, I have a feeling that after I go find a toy cash register for him to mess with at Christmas this year, he'll probably be on to something else.

I'm glad your son is happy. I think it is natural to worry as a parent, especially about things that seem very different. But these HG kids are a bit different aren't they? Normal for them, though.

When you mention your pediatrician, I remembered something else that is handy. Some kids adore their docs, and if you have one of those, this might be a good idea. Send your doc a note ahead of time that you want his/her help in getting your DS involved in something other than numbers. E.g., "doc, can you help me by telling DS how important it is to (e.g.) go outside and play." something like that. If DS hears it from beloved doc, maybe he'll listen.

And re: christmas presents. Beware! I no longer buy anything in advance for birthdays/christmas. My DS4 outgrows his passions/interests much more quickly than expected.

I think DS5 went as far as liking timeouts since he could watch the timer on our microwave His number obsession wasn't as strong as your son's, but he sure has gone through quite a lot of obsessions. The good news is that he time learns a lot from that.

I too don't think that boys under 3 are too social, I used to be worried about it as well, but preschool made a great difference for DS5. If you are worried about social skills try one-on-one playdates. I think those work better, especially for shy or introvert children.

I agree with the previous posters--I wouldn't worry too much unless it is really interfering with his daily living. I also think that a child under 3 really isn't expected to be social with other children especially if they have interests that wouldn't be the same interests of a normal 3 year old.

Keep us posted. I'd love to know how his math/number skills are progressing since DS5 loves his numbers as well--just not to the same degree.

Catherine, I am curious if your son has synesthesia. If so, he'd have specific colors and possibly textures assigned to each number. For example, the number two would be blue. Even if it's black text, it'd be blue for him. A lot of 'numbers' people have this, and it gives them great joy to examine numbers because of this.

Echoing others, 25 % sounds fine to me. If I were you I'd pursue his passions right alongside him, as you are, then he is certainly being social

Hi Catherine,
First of all, don't worry about posting - your son is only two! You will get a lot of knowledge along the way and but for now, it's ok to 'take.' Of course if you remember anything from your own childhood - that's always welcome!

BTW - ask for stories about you and DH while growing up, and all the sibling - usually you'll get a few that outdo your own kid. My son was a champion nurser, so I got flack for 'spoiling him' and was sure relieved to hear that DH had a open sore on his thumb until way past age of 7 because he was such an avid thumbsucker.

I sure do relate to having a child who has a difficult time 'gearing down' when it's bed time.
Have you read this book http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Perceptive/dp/0060923288

(If you decide to buy it, then go to hoagiegifted.org first and navigate from there.)

I encourage you not to worry about the social stuff at this young age, that is, unless you can find him some number obcessed 3 -5 year olds who share his passion for counting. If his school has the ability to let him spend some of his day with older children, I think this might be a help.

Best Wishes,
Grinity (who's son's favorite gift for his 2nd birthday was a stuffed letter 'W' - a letter not in his name.

Gee -your child sounds much like mine was and still is :-) My DS5 is addicted to anything math and numbers - you described some of the exact same things my little guy was in love with doing. He used to flip through paperbacks that i was reading and get excited about finding out how many pages long the book was. Same thing with the phone book - he would figure out the various patterns (different colored pages meant different info found...) and would ask me to tell him something to look up and would then go to find it and tell me different phone numbers we could call to get info. I haven't seen any of this lead to an issue other than one time when he was playing drive through window with his scooter (he would drive around our kitchen on his scooter and would stop at the "window" and we would give him a math problem that he had to solve and then he would get his "order of pretend food" and would do this over and over - he played the game for almost 2 hours and then when we told him it was time to get ready for bed you would think the world was ending). We weren't too worried about it - he also loved many other things as well but numbers/patterns/math have always been a love of his. We lead him into other activities as well and would find creative methods to introduce a new concept or bring an activity to a new level. He has trouble relating to others at his school and always has - he is the oldest child now in his Montessori preschool and while he wants to explore much higher up concepts, the others all want to run around playing Pokemon....so we have found that he relates very well to kids that are between 7-8 years old and we try to find different activities that allow him to be around older children outside of school....have you seen your child around older children - you might be surprised how he reacts...

Catherine, my DS3y6m has just recently (within the last six months) become more social with other children. Before, he would engage in "parallel play," much as you've indicated that Graham has. I believe that it's normal, and in a few months, he may wish to play with others. As for the obsession, while my DS hasn't been obsessed to the same degree, he has gone through phases where he wants to learn everything about bees, dinasours, etc. He LOVES trains and knows each Thomas character intimately. When he plays with his trains, they have to be in a certain order. If you change it up, he will glance over and "correct" the change to his preconceived notion of the correct order. I would give a strong second to Kriston's advice.

My DS6 was obsessed with letters as an infant. His first vocalizations were letters! His favorite toy was a wooden ABC puzzle. At around 18 months, he became particularly fond of the letter 'H' for some reason. DS would carry around the yellow wooden 'H' from the puzzle all day and we had to bring it everywhere we went. He would ask for it as soon as he woke up in the morning. We still have that ABC puzzle, and all of the letters look bright and new except for a dingy, dinged up 'H'. It sounds so cute now but, honestly, I was worried he was "on the spectrum" because he was attached to a wooden letter! He is quite the renaissance man now though, and is social and athletic in addition to still loving letters!

My husband and I took Graham on a road trip for a family event this weekend...about a 4 hour car trip each way. Graham sat in the back seat with his calculator and his books and our chapter books and read or looked at his numbers. He watched all the numbers on the display in the front showing the disc and track numbers of the CD that was playing. For 4 hours. He was an angel. Maybe the numbers thing is a good thing!

Seriously though, thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses. I forwarded this thread on to my husband and asked him to read. We talked about your thoughts on this matter over the weekend and remarked to each other that the sense of community that exists now because of technology is truly amazing. An issue that would have kept me up at night (I'm a bit of an over thinker)doesn't, because of the ability to hear from those of you who have been here before. So thanks so much! I'm really going to get Graham around some older kids and I think I will try and think of ways to turn the counting/math into an aspect of a larger game...loved the "drive through window" story!

By the way, we had a wonderful weekend of family and swimming in the pool and picnicking and only a wee little bit of numbers. All in all a wonderful time.