Hi, everyone... I'm Cassy. I should post an introduction, but I haven't much time before DD12 gets home from school. I'm on this forum because of her... She is 12 years old and in a state school. For years, we've all known that she is different, very bright - but now I'm worried that she is gifted and I've overlooked something.
When DD12 was young, until she was 9 in fact, she was at a Montessori school in London and thrived. The hardest decision that her father and i ever made was to pull her out. He had lost his job, we were having trouble paying the fees and decided that DD12 would make a better transition to secondary if she got a year in primary first... At the Montessori, DD12 had always played with older children (she was miserable during her last year because they had all left for secondary, and this absence of friendds was also a key factor in changing school) but suddenly she was expectde to spend time with pre-teens her age. She was way ahead of all the work they gave her that year, especially in English and in Science, but we were happy because we thought that this was because of the Montessori education she had received since age 3.

Her first SAT, she scored a 95% and her second a full 100% (both in Science) At the time we laughed but now I think this was an important thing I overlooked! She had never taken a SAT before in her life as the Montessori school she was a part of didn't go in for tests.

I always thought that DD12 was just a normal only child sort of a kid, but she takes everything in at such a deep level, she is so sensitive (everything touches her - everything affects her too much).

She is 12 and reading Plath... She studies extra chemistry formulae at home just "to know more," she talks about medicines and about bomb making (this worries LoneWanderer (her father) because he says she doesn't have a normal teenager's life. He was also worried about her interest in bombing terrorist attacks, and subsequent research into howw to make and wire such bombs)... She comes home from school crying. She begs us to give her harder work. It's got so much worse over th last school year, I'm very worried about her.

I went to the head teacher, asking could they give her extra maths and science. She said that DD12 was already taking up extra time in Chemistry and in Physics, that the teacher didn't have time for her, that if she wanted harder work, she should skip a year or two. She eventually asked me "is your daughter gifted?"

People have often said that DD12 is very bright, when she was a smaller child, they said that she was a talented writer (now she only concentrates on her Chemistry reserach... she is failing everything (even English, which I know she is good at) but Maths, Physics & Chemistry. People have called her "gifted" but she was never IQ tested because her old school didn't do that and because she is a self-destructive perfectionist... She can't handle the strain of "real" tests and I never wanted her to feel that she was different from her classmates.

She is so miserable, and a week ago, told me she wanted to drop out of school. It was a sort of ultimatum, and made me panick into finding out evrything I could about giftedness - she said that she can't cope with her boring school life, atht it is taking away from her real learning and that she is so unhappy, mummy, isn't there everything you can do? I've tried everything I can, she said, but I'm only young and I needd your help.

I have no idea what I can do - DD12 has been running up against teachers quite a lot this year and so I'm used to finding solutions together with her school's board, but i really don't know how to figure this one out. If DD12 [/i]is [i]gifted, then maybe I can find a way... Does the child I've been describing sound gifted to you?

(Sorry for weird spelling - I'm using a crazy computer and I'm rubbish at IT!)

Thank you so so much -
questingmum

Could you provide some background info?

What country are you in? (Americans write "mom", not "mum".)

What grade is your daughter in? An American 12yo in 7th grade would not be courses labelled chemistry and physics.

By SAT do you mean Stanford Achievement Test?

And she was apparently not pulled out because her parents moved...

And yes, the fact that subjects (and areas of studies in subjects) are so tightly bound to school years seems to be a purely American peculiarity...

And to go back to the original question... Yes, she is probably gifted. This doesn't change her, this doesn't make her into a freak. Unless you need ammunition you don't even need her to get tested (which might require somebody experienced with older gifted kids) unless the school requires it for the acceleration they don't seem loath to offer (which might be good).

Gifted is IMO a label you can start (privately) applying to her and and using to find help for her, starting with online resources such as Hoagies or this forum. Lots of people here have been there, done that, a few in the UK.

+1 on everything kcab said about things needing to change soon. What are your options? Working with this school, other schools (public -- in the non-UK sense of the word -- or private), homeschooling for a while, extra-curricular course of study in her areas of interest while rekindling her love for the basics -- if she likes chemistry she will need math!

For US readers, in the UK kids start their 5 years of high school at 11. Those subjects are part of the usual curriculum at an English high school.

OP I think this Mensa UK link will be very helpful http://www.mensa.org.uk/mensa/gifted_and_talented_support.html

(To clarify a little further, although school in the UK is currently only compulsory till 16, anyone wanting to go to university stays on till 18. The word "high school" can mean several things but usually means the school a child starts at 11. SATs are nothing to do with anything you use the same initials for in the US. Yes, the US one-science-per-year thing seems very odd to the rest of the world!)

OP, your daughter sounds gifted but more importantly troubled, to me. I'm in the UK but don't know much about what you'll be able to get done. Is your DD under CAHMS? If not I think that's your first stop; I'd be a lot more worried about the failing non-preferred subjects and being unhappy in the first instance than with the giftedness - it'll be difficult either to demonstrate or act on the latter while she's in this state. I would also recommend talking to someone at NAGC.

Also, is home education an option? Clearly something needs to be done, but she doesn't sound in a stable enough place for radical acceleration to be ideal, to me.

Thank you all so much. I feel really reassured to hear from you all... so much less alone. You're in America (mostly) so of coarse there are big differences - but Kikandkyle and ColinsMum explained really well. Thanks for the mensa link! I'll have a look. (SATS are normal test exams, like prep for the "real" ones...) I've also hunted down a couple of Uk-based forums about parenting, but I think this one is the best do far, despite the UK-US differences...

Firstly, SiaSL, about what you said to do with my daughter not being changed - I really apreciated this. I have got so used to thinking of DD12 as different even from me, and not really as a child anymore even though she's my baby, it was just good to hear this. Really keyed in with what I'm feeling and anxious about.

I've been thinking about home education, too - I have a friend who home eds her three children (5,6 and 9) but they are not as sociable as DD12 used to be (she has given up on her friendships with classmates lately, only keeping in touch with her old Montessori friends, who're all at other schools than her)and I really don't think I could offer DD12 enough. I don't know if this is rational, but I've been getting the feeling more and more that I can't keep up with DD12's "hunger" - that I don't know enough to teach her anything... My Maths is poor and, although I liked Science, I neither shared her passion nore can I grasp those concepts the way she does... also, we have a 1 and 1/4 year old baby, Cryallnight. She's v. different to DD12 but also takes a lot of time and attenton - however, we have noticed the little one isn't developing the same way DD12 did.. slower, taking her time, vocabulary still growing but not yet extensive... They love each other, I know, but perhaps being in her 2nd year at secondary school and having a new baby sister is a strain on DD12. I will try to find other solutions, do, but I know that home educating would be an answer. I have to talk with DD12 about what she wants!

I have looked up all your links - some v.helpful (absolutely love the look of Hoagies!) and I looked up CAHMS. We live in Hounslow now! (we used to live in Chelsea) Thank you very much, ColinsMum, for the link - however, right now I am not convinced that DD12 needs a "mental health service." I think that she is unhappy in her environment and that the hints of depression I am picking up on are from this. I don't want to enter into speaking with psycologists just yet.

I'm going to talk with DD12's head teacher again soon, and then I think i shall know a little more what my plan of action should be. I'm going to continue posting here, if that's OK with everybody... not too confusing from the UK and a mum who's in a tizzy!

Seriously, I already feel like you've helped DD12 and me. Thank you.

I am sorry to hear your anguish over your daughter. Yes, she definitely sounds as if she could be gifted.. most certainly. The fact that she is nto doing well at certain subjects should not cast doubt in your mind about her abilities at all. Often these kids will do very well at one thing and complete rubbish at another ! Good luck with everything. Let us know how you get on !

I am in the US, but do they have online schools in the UK also. Some online charter schools here are free and if you have them over there you may have more options with that, and some even have teachers that will be available to help your dd and you through the process.

No, it's just the name of the course. Education is pretty simialr in the age-rank thing around the world.

Do you know somewhere other than America that does the specific thing that was at issue in this thread, i.e. does sciences in the "if this is Xth grade, the science must be chemistry" way? I know schools here that, for example, offer music in early years but not later ones, but only in America have I come across the idea that a scientifically inclined child could be given a year of their favourite science and then not have the opportunity to be taught any more of it the following year. That's what seems odd. I'd be interested to know if it is, in fact, widespread - there are not many countries about which I really know.