I am not going to bother with this this year. However, I've come to the conclusion that I need to try to get DD further accelerated in math next year. I don't think I've seen her get a problem wrong all year, unless she skipped it (rare). At this point she's working on mid-year 3rd grade concepts (she is in second). They generally keep these kids about a year ahead, but she could definitely do more.

She complains that math is too easy; however, she isn't particularly interested in learning math in her spare time and I haven't tried to expose her to much. Considering hothousing her a bit this summer--like, 15 minutes a day, even. Thoughts on an easy way to do this? She picks everything up very fast and gets impatient with repetition (I know I'm preaching to the choir).

Basically I guess I want her to look ready for 5th grade math. Hmmm...sounds like quite a jump when I think about it, but she just grasps things so fast. Do I want Kumon? Khan? FTR we did have some Singapore math books around when she was younger, and we didn't like them much. She hates all this manipulative stuff where she has to draw little boxes and so on--I assume because her innate math sense makes it unnecessary. She does not need a lot of explanation and becomes impatient with constantly doing the same skills over and over. We have not had great success with typical online math "fun" stuff, either--she does not enjoy coordination-based games all that much.

I guess...basically...I am looking for something where she can learn a lot in a short period, which she is fully capable of doing. It does not need to be gussied up with pictures, games, and elaborate methods of helping her "get" things like multiplication. She is fine with tackling a sheet of straight-ahead math. Like, right now, I know she would much rather do a big sheet of multi-digit subtraction with carrying--which she finds kind of fun--than something "conceptual" that is slowly explaining the concept of division.

Just realized that my title doesn't match where I went with my post. As I wrote it, I realized that I need to make sure she has the skills down first. But the next part will be figuring out how to make this happen at a GT school--so I'm looking for advice from others who have done that, too.

I'd go to a used book store and look at the available text books and also check out a home school supply store for the same. See what she likes then start working through it.

Your end goal is to get her to begin Algebra, so finding a canonical curriculum that you can stick with would be a plus. Perhaps a two-book series, one being pre-algebra and then algebra.

You could also look for a geometry text. Geometry can be a lot of fun.

We're using Singapore math for the summer, and my rule of thumb is, "if you can correctly solve 4 out of 5 problems from the Complex Word Problems that go with that chapter, you've passed the chapter." If she wants explanation before tackling the problems, we look in the textbook, or go over one of the worked problems, first.

Does Singapore get less picture-heavy/faster as it progresses? I have 1B here, which we fooled around with a bit when DD was in K. Looking at it again, I know exactly why she disliked it. It's actually a bit reminscent of Everyday Math, which she also didn't like. What am I missing? I know it's popular. I ordered it online so have never seen the higher-level books.

ETA--still trying to articulate what I want. We need something that moves very fast but that also does not assume familiarity with even basic concepts--for instance, she does not know how to manipulate fractions or multiply multi-digit numbers yet. So it's not like I can just hand her a 4th grade textbook. But even if I did sit down with her and work on that 4th grade textbook, she would probably become impatient with the slow speed of it once she "got" the concept. Oh, you guys know what I mean, right?

I would recommend Aleks. They still have the two months free trial available (http://www.aleks.com/webform/tm_203, sign up ahead of time since these are processed manually and it takes a few days to get access).

Pluses:
1) concepts are broken down into small units (about 100 concepts per grade level),
2) new concepts become available to learn as the child builds mastery,
3) only needs 3 correct answers in a row for a concept to be marked mastered,
4) child can pick and chose concepts from different domains every day (ordering fractions, parallel vs. perpendicular lines...)
5) each level in elementary pretty much contains all the levels before, so there is review built in if instruction wasn't systematic (when we started my son could do 4th grade operations but hadn't learned anything about time)
6) aligned to school curriculum, and let's you print a report of concepts mastered against your state's curriculum (which might matter when advocating for acceleration)
7) you can print lovely worksheets with 16 questions on 16 different concepts (which my son likes much better than grinding through one page of the same thing)

Minuses:
1) there isn't really any instruction, mostly explanations that walk you through a sample problem -- your child might need some parental help to generalize for some concepts,
2) I have found that the path of dependencies isn't always perfect, sometimes a concept becomes available before the child is quite ready, leading to frustration,
3) can be dry

I think the pluses hit your wishlist and the minuses wouldn't be too bad for your daughter's profile.

If she is working on 3rd grade stuff you can start her in the 4rd grade class, then depending on how well she does on the initial assessment let her finish or switch the class (<25% -> go to 3rd, >85% go up to 5th).

The website has the list of every single concept in every single class, if you are curious.

Have you tried any of the Harcourt "Math Skills" Family Learning Workbooks? They are about $7.00 at a place like B&N. If she doesn't mind the paper-pencil thing, you could just get a sample of grade-levels and she could complete problems (as many needed for proficiency w/out boredom) across grade levels.

I've used these with my DD. They have enough color to be interesting but tend more the traditional format but it doesn’t sound like your DD would mind that if nobody is forcing her to keep going and going when she already knows something.

If my DD knows a lesson/section, she skips it and if she really loves a concept so I “make up” similar problems on sheet I make and print myself or sometimes you can google it and get free worksheets online for that type of lesson.

For drilling there are a variety of math-fact type programs free online.

Thanks--I am going to check out ALEKS for sure. I haven't seen the Harcourt books at all, either, so will take a look. Her math curric this year is Harcourt-Brace and it's worked better for her than Everyday Math did.

And here is a thread about Aleks that will give you a better idea of the potential pitfalls:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/120000/ALEKS_Issues.html

geofizz has a good review somewhere online about what I find to be the worst weakest part, namely the lack of generalized, conceptual instruction. There is some useful reference if you click the links introducing a new term, but it remains skimpy, and I am fairly sure a bright child could end up "mastering" concepts without an actual solid understanding of the subject.

Also, not much writing, which my son loves, but is not a good preparation for "show your work" school tests. Standardized testing, yes.

But your daughter seems to have the right profile to make it work, as long as you are aware of the pitfalls.

Right now we have slowed my (AS) son's progression, since he is working 2 years above grade level and per his therapist (who is very set against acceleration in general) this is working to his strengths rather than his weaknesses (word problems!) *and* is going to further worsen his issues with cooperative work in small group settings .

Why? Once she gets it, you move on, right? When it's you doing the teaching, the one who controls the speed is you.

We've done length / weight / capacity in Singapore 3B, because my DD had zero intuitive grasp of the scale of things. After a bunch of dumping water around / measuring everything she could find with a stick made of 100 2cm Mathlink cubes stuck together / using a postage scale to split her deck of cards into even halves and quarters, she has a little bit more of a sense of things. We looked at the textbook for inspiration, and a couple of times I asked her how she'd solve a given problem, then we discussed the way the book demonstrated solving that problem. Then we were done.

She has an interest in the bar chart way of solving complex problems, but the point of drawing the bars is "learn this way of representing problems, so that it's in your toolkit should you come across a problem you can't solve using the tools you have right now." The main point isn't to find the answer to a given problem.

I'd also recommend Aleks - SiaSL summarized the program really well, and it sounds like it would be a good fit for your dd. We used it for *exactly* what you're trying to do - ds sped through the curriculum quickly, but he clearly learned the material, and he also liked the quick pace. When we asked for the acceleration at school, we showed them the reports from Aleks that tie the modules mastered to state curriculum standards for the highest level course he'd taken in Aleks.

I think someone mentioned that Aleks lacks the "explain how you got your answer" type problems, which it definitely lacks... but fwiw, our ds was so extremely challenged by word problems in elementary school level math - but once he was working in algebra he found his words... it was just easier for him to understand how to explain - so I wouldn't let lack of exposure to explain-your-work-five-different-ways-or-else hold your dd back from trying Aleks or a similar program (can you tell I'm a little bit tired of Everyday Math lol!).

FWIW, my dd10 is going to Kumon. I think that might be another option for your dd - but the downside is you can't just do it when you feel like it like you can with Aleks, you are supposed to do a little bit of Kumon math every day, and you are supposed to go to the center each week. It also costs a lot more $ than Aleks Our dd is going to Kumon because she screams when she needs to have her parents answer a math question... but she seems to listen when other people explain concepts...so it's worth the $ to us to have her get annoyed at someone else!

With our ds, we found that 95% of the time, the written explanations in Aleks were all he needed to understand a new concept. The other 5% of the time he caught on by having us (parents) explain it to him. If there aren't any math geeks in your house to handle explanations, I think kids can also ask a tutor at Aleks, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Yeah, good one. I guess that's where I have to confess that my undergrad major was math, other people's mileage may vary.

Although I have found, both with my son and back when I was asked to help my siblings with homework, being able to intuit answers to math questions does not a good math tutor make ("what do you mean you don't understand?!?").

The Aleks thing sounds pretty intriguing.

I realized I didn't add that we do so much of the "manipulative" stuff and the Harcourt books are mainly to practice the output, for test taking which is part of academic life and so I can see whether she can "prove" on paper that she can do the problems.

But my DD loves the manipulative stuff, and she tends to get stuck on word problems so alot of time we act it out or have a pretend store for all the money stuff. For the online stuff she loves anything that has sound effects.

I suppose it doesn't sound very sophisticated but it gets the ideas locked in there and it's fun.

You might want to give Kumon a try. DS4y5m is very interested in math and wanted to do it but it seemed the workbooks etc. didn't give him the incentive he needed.

We started him at Kumon right before he turned 4 and he LOVES it! He is a very driven kid and likes the challenge of finishing the work and turning it in to someone other than his parents. He has zoomed through it and is currently doing late 2nd grade math.

Also it is made to only take a MAX of 15 minutes everyday although DS did double the work up until a few weeks ago. He would spend about 25 minutes but as the math got more difficult I noticed he started to run out of steam at the end of the session. We cut it down to what he was meant to do and since then he BEGS to do it.

Oh, so to do Kumon, you need to go to the centers? Don't they have books as well?

She has figured out that she has to show her work to get full points, so she knows how to fulfill that expectation, although she speeds through and is a little sloppy (answers are right). She would LOVE not to have to show her work.

I am not mathy, which is a shame for DD. I can, of course, competently perform the operations at this age/grade, but I am not good at explaining. This hasn't been an issue for far, but it probably will be eventually. I just taught her basic multiplication of multidigit numbers this afternoon, and she "got" how to do it immediately, but my explanation was, uh, not inspired. DH is much more mathy, but guess who's home during homework time. I guess I have been thinking/hoping that Khan Academy could help us if we run into a concept that I suck at explaining.

I should have said that I am really hoping not to have to sit next to her the whole time. It would be nice if some other "entity" would basically assess her pace/mastery for me.

You do have to go to the centers either once or twice per week with Kumon (at least that's how it works where we are). You don't spend much time at the center - your child just takes in the packets they've worked on at home to be graded, and picks up their new packet. Some kids work on their first page of their new packet at the center so they can ask questions and so the Kumon staff can be sure the child knows how to do the work, some kids just take the packet and go home.

One little downside to Kumon is that when you're home doing the packets every day you don't have anyone from Kumon to answer questions right there at your house. Aleks comes with fairly detailed explanations, so at the elementary math level even a non-geek could most likely help their child through a challenging topic if they had to. It's possible Kumon has some kind of tutoring # you can call and ask questions and I just don't know about it. You could look up a topic on Khan Academy too - or sometimes with my dd10, who gets stuck with math sometimes, I can just google "how to ___" and come up with a bunch of different ways to explain the math concept.

I'd forgotten about it when I responded the first time, but I do have a friend who was successful in advocating for acceleration in math for her ds after sending him through Kumon, so I'm sure they have some kind of documentation etc they can provide to the school as proof of what a child has accomplished at Kumon.

polarbear

Yep. That. Sal Khan doesn't mind repeating himself, the "playback those last 10s' can be used a gazillion times without him getting annoyed, and the explanations are rather good, and done in several different ways.

My son prefers him to me explaining things any day .

In a perfect world there would be an "Explain more" button in Aleks that would start the correct Khan Academy lecture when pressed...

We go to the Kumon center twice a week and he actually does that days work there with the teacher. For now we can handle the work obviously, but once he gets into more complicated work we will need more help from the teachers. Neither my husband nor I are math people....:-)

Thanks for the Aleks recommendation--we got the free trial and are checking it out. DD likes that it doesn't make her endlessly prove that she knows a concept. I think she is likely to be able to to learn independently from their admittedly short explanations, at least at this level. She's eager to fill up the rest of her "pie," which is about half complete in level 3 after her assessment. This would make sense, since she's halfway through a 3rd grade curriculum---I assume the numbers (eg, Level 3) pretty much match up to grades? Although I saw her skipping a problem that was dividing with remainders--is that grade 3?

ultramarina, we found that the Aleks curriculum lined up relatively closely with grade level, but things may vary from state to state. If you'r interested in your particular area's grade levels, you can generate a report for your dd showing what she has mastered listed against your state standards. I don't have an Aleks session open right now, but the report is (if I remember!) easy to find - I think it's under the parents login, but if not, check under the student login.

polarbear

LV3 should mostly match to 3rd grade curriculum for most states, but won't be a perfect match for any state, I think. It will also include 1st and 2nd grade items (since the program can be used for remedial work).

The curriculum report polarbear mentions is in Student Pie Chart right under the pie itself. You generate it by clicking on the "View your state's Mathematics Content Standards report" link under "Child's State Standards Report". You can change standards back and forth between different states (or going to common core) by going to "Edit Student Account" from the main page.

The teacher/school tools will let you swap pie items in (and out?) but I haven't found a way to do it for independent study.

Oh, and one thing about the trial. As soon as it expired we signed up and paid for a full account. On the next day or so we got an email congratulating us for taking the trial and offering a sizable discount on the subscription cost. Unless your daughter cannot live without her daily Aleks fix by then you might want to not hurry your paying subscription if she remains interested...

Ohhh, very good piece of advice, SiaSL! Thanks!