In my state, in order to graduate from high school, students have to have 4 English, 4 math, 3 Science, 3 History, 2 Foreign Language, 0.5 Health, 1 PE, O.5 State History, and maybe 7 electives.
For HG/PG kids that are advanced, I see a problem with this "box" (what I call it) because some kids do advanced math before high school and "run out" of math courses available. Some kids don't need English 9, 10, 11, 12, but should skip to 11 and then they run out of available English courses. Yes, there is a 2 yr junior college here, but only jrs & srs are authorized to take courses, online courses are discouraged (they like "seat time") and even then they only go up to second semester calculus.
To me we need to be able to get credit for advanced work in middle school or outside of school and graduate early. I understand that GEDs are not well regarded by top universities.
My question is have any of you been able to negotiate the credits issue (other than GED), and if so, how?
My son's middle school grants HS credit for the high school math class he is currently taking in middle school. This was already in place when we got there, so I don't know how it was arranged.
I was given HS credit for algebra taken in 8th grade. Also, I was given credit for foreign language taken in 8th grade. I still ended up taking 4th year German twice because there was no 5th year German. I ran out of math classes to take after I finished Calculus as a junior. My parents had to negotiate with the school. I remember thinking how silly it was to say that someone like me wasn't meeting "graduation requirements"...
Cym, I seem to remember learning (from some DITD parent seminar) that many top universities do not require GEDs or HS diplomas for acceptance. Maybe you could contact some admissions offices to ask.
You also may want to ensure your son gets the honors level Alg1 (if it's not too late). The high schools here do give grad credit for h. Alg1 taken in middle school, but not regular Alg1.
We do allow kids to take Alg 1 in middle school and progress to Alg 2 as freshmen in high school, but they do not get credit toward graduation. Yes, they offer honors for all levels and then AP for calculus. BUT, with DS9 entering middle school next year, they say he's ready for Alg 2. (Complication is his brother DS11 is also ready for Alg 2). As it stands now, they would have to repeat Alg 2 in High school (we're trying to negotiate an assessment that would give them credit toward graduation). Plus the middle school is trying to come up with a course. Plus DS9 presumably could get through pre-calc in middle school and without credit, how would he graduate?
We might have to face that college entrance without HS graduation or GED with DS9. I've been trying (don't ask me why) to get them accommodated through the "system" as much as possible, but I don't think that'll be possible for him.
The normal "high school experience" is over-rated IMO, except to my one high schooler...
Our "honors" track is still watered down. My DS13 wanted to reject honors World History because he said it'd just be additional busy work and stupid projects and pretty posters. I wouldn't let him choose regular World History, but I do understand what he means. He thinks he could teach himself better than they could and in less time without the hassle of colored pencils (understand the sassy teenage attitude!). Historically, people have self taught by reading/discussing (didn't Abe Lincoln do that?). But he's chosen to go the public school route over homeschool or fancy prep school, so I think he has to just buck up. As it is, he does just enough work, absolutely no more, to scrape A's.
I do worry additional projects that he deems meaningless will put him over the edge into underachievement.
Does your state offer college courses paid for by the school system? I know some do, and it solves the problem, plus the child gets some free college credits. It looks like a number of states have some sort of program that allows high school students to have dual enrollment in college courses while getting high school credit for them, too. I'd look for that first.
If your state doesn't have such a program, you might be able to make it happen anyway. There's certainly precedent for it. I found such programs in 3 states (my last 3 links) with just a 3 minute google search, stopping at only page 3.
That would be my first choice, since it not only solves your "no more classes" problem neatly, but it also gives your child some free college credits.
If you don't have a university or community college nearby, you could probably arrange online and/or correspondence courses or independent study classes. I designed the correspondence course for composition at the big state university I worked at, and it was as faithful a representation of the in-class experience as I could make it. Not as good as the real thing, obviously, but the students who completed the course and got a passing grade were definitely better at reading and writing than they were when they started the course. They aren't a waste of time if the student takes the course seriously.
The High School that I am considering for my dd has a great honors research program for juniors/seniors that are advanced in the sciences. This program places students at nationally renowned universities and hospitals in the area.
"Carefully matched with professional mentors, juniors and seniors can explore a wide range of scientific disciplines and gain early fluency in professional scientific literature, learn various basic and advanced laboratory techniques, and interact with experienced researchers as well as scientific experts in their fields. Stretched far beyond any high school Advanced Placement course, students see firsthand the difficulty of producing relevant, valuable data and learn to communicate their results at professional presentations"
They also have a great number of AP courses for which they get college credit.
Since I am not really keen on sending my DD to college early, this high school sounds perfect.
Oh, one late addendum to my post: in our state, I think those dual enrollment things only give the child college credit if the class is taught by a college instructor (not a high school one) in a class consisting of a majority of college students. So a special set-up on the grounds of the high school for the high school students would solve the "what to do when you run out of courses" dilemma, but it probably wouldn't earn college credit.
So if you don't want the child in a college classroom at all yet, this might not be the solution for you.
Kriston--those are great articles! I read the first 2 and will read the others later. Thank you.
Our state does pay for dual enrollment and the district buys books, BUT they only want this for jrs. & srs. In my mind, I could just go around the district and do it on my own. The transportation issue (with 4 kids, 3 potentially suitable to take college courses, it is a bit overwhelming).
In addition to what Kriston has posted, I read someplace that the credits earned at the college, while in high school, are not transferable to other colleges. They will be included on the transcript if the student continues in that college after high school. I don't know if thats a quirk in just my local University, my state, or all over.
I think in our state that sophomores can dual enroll, too. You might want to double check the age limits. That may still be too little too late for you, but it may be possible to go younger if you ask. Worth a try at least.
Hi Guys: Have not read the articles posted by Kriston yet, but had to chime in... We will be facing that very same situation shortly, but when I inquired with the GC of the prospective HS, she said "we will accomodate every child, we do have some pretty advanced kids". I know that the kids are allowed to take classes at the state flagship, but I do not know if they have to be juniors to do that... One local school that is a dual enrollment school, and "officially" they say that it is for juniors and seniors only, but in practice, if you are a sophomore and your ACT is is 23 or higher, you can ask for an exepmtion and it is always granted. Why don't they talk about it openly? There is not a lot of kids like that! Our plan is not to graduate early, but math will be a problem. DS will take Pre-Calc next year in 8th grade and after that I want him to take AP Calc BC. I do not know yet what the school's reaction is going to be to the AP class as a freshman, but I know for sure that they currently have a 7th grader who is in Pre-Calc,(the school has a magnet program for 7th and 8th graders), so if they are allowing for that.....
On another note, I found out about a different problem. It happens when your child does get credit for HS classes taken in Middle School. The grade gets calculated into their HS GPA. No problem if the grade is A, but if it is lower, you are messing up with the GPA. Not a pretty picture.
I think the grade can be a problem with dual enrollment, too, Ania. Good point. If a kid has a lot going on and a lot of college classes while still in high school, the GPA might be affected.
College classes require a lot more time and independence, so it might not work well for every HG+ high school kid if the GPA is a concern. I do think colleges will look hard at a child taking college math courses at 15 or younger though, even if the kid's GPA isn't perfect, provided they realize that the classes are college classes. The college application essays would be vital in that case, I think.
^^totally agree. While I absolutely hate to judge the kid by a grade they receive, a potential problem facing GT kids is a low GPA compared to high SAT/ACT scores. Top colleges will view an applicant like that as lazy.
It is common to have a "weighted" GPA when dual enrolled. The college courses count for 1 grade/number higher than the high school courses. So a C in a college course = a B in a high school course. There's always chatter about weighted vs. non-weighted GPA on College Confidential. I think you just have to be clear on which you are declaring, in order to have everything add up correctly.
I could be very wrong about this, but I don't believe college courses are weighted in my state. At least, at the meeting I was at where I heard about all this stuff (and listened with only one ear because my DSs were only 3 & 6!), grades were a concern and no one reassured parents with this bit of info.
I realize this isn't much help, but grades and weighting would certainly be something to check on.
Not sure if this is on topic or off, but what about considering a foreign exchange program for a year before 11th grade and then going on with 11th & 12th math classes? Not sure how this would work since I haven't even thought that far ahead. But, I always wanted to do that and would love for DS to do it. Just a thought - didn't mean to sidetrack.
It is common to have a "weighted" GPA when dual enrolled. The college courses count for 1 grade/number higher than the high school courses. So a C in a college course = a B in a high school course. There's always chatter about weighted vs. non-weighted GPA on College Confidential. I think you just have to be clear on which you are declaring, in order to have everything add up correctly.
It is also true, that colleges "recalculate" GPA. But see, here we are getting into the so called "grey" area.
As for which courses are weighted (sp), it all depends on either district or school itself. There is a spectrum there. _________________________
Is the high school located right next door to the jr high, or sr high next to flagship? Our middle school is far away from the high school but our middle school is close to the jr college. One mom I know transports her son from a different middle school to the high school every day for math class.
Plus the high school courses have different "strands" (educators' speak: part of benchmarks & standards) that are not necessarily part of the college course curriculum...for instance, "Intermediate Algebra" at the college doesn't have some of the stuff in the HS course, so would DS be able to score 85% or better on the final if he's never had 3 of the "strands"? So complicated! and Silly!
Bianc-your school sounds great! I wish we had that option in town. My DS11 told me he'd like to try for a boarding school (I'm not sure he'd be eligible for merit scholarship with current SAT/ACT scores, that would pay half the hefty tuition, so that idea may not be feasible) But, I like him thinking "outside the box".