Hi,

I don't post much, but I lurk on a regular basis. I am just after some thoughts on what to do with dd, 5.

DD started school this year in grade one. After a disastrous first term, where her teachers did not support her in adjusting to school and expected her to 'just get it' school like a normal grade one (in a huge class), and refused to give her work at her level because the skip should have been enough. Dd was not coping at all and we made the decision to change schools.

The school we chose is a school with a gifted coordinator and a commitment to differentiating for all kids. They have a good reputation for helping optimally gifted kids and given their resources and the experience we'd had we were really just very grateful to have people to speak to who didn't snigger at the mention of dd's reading level etc.

The only issue was that they couldn't put dd in to the grade one class because the year level was already over capacity. The trade off was a K teacher who is very experienced with gifted kids. This, in many ways, has worked exceptionally well (reletive to what we were experiencing before). DD's behaviour switched over night from daily tantrums to having my happy, funny daughter back. The teacher let her skip readers and choose her own books from the library and so on.

We're now a term in to being at the 'new' school and overall dd is generally so much happier. It was evident she was under a lot of pressure with very little support at the first school. Now we have the complete opposite. She is in the top grouping for everything and finds it all super easy. The teacher gives her some differentiation, but only a little above the top level and not really anything dd couldn't do without thinking. DD tested >99.9% on the SV5 and is racing through a grade three maths work book at home (she grasps the concepts within in minutes and I have no doubt she could do work at a higher level, I am just trying to telescope it rather skip stuff so she doesn't have too many gaps - especially maths facts). She can read literally anything and has a very high level of comprehension.

She has yet to make any 'best' friends at school, which is rare for dd. She usually attaches herself to someone who she becomes somewhat obsessed with. I'm not sure if not doing so is due to increased maturity or no one of real interest (she says she likes 'loads' of people) or, more likely, a combination of both. She had a whole group of very good friends for the term she was in grade one - it was the one positive of the experience.

DD says she is very happy in her class and is adamant she doesn't want to skip grade one next year, which is something we're considering. She's a shy kid who I think is actually really growing in confidence in the K class at this stage - at the moment she's the smart girl who is well liked. But I can see that there might be a point where that starts to tip the other way and she starts to feel isolated when she fails to find any real connections. I am also concerned as we're starting to see her panic when something isn't easy. She's always been perfectionistic, but we've been on top of it by talking about effort and learning from mistakes. But now everything is easy, in the context of academics.

Her teacher, the one who specialises in gifted kids, has been ok about me requesting harder work for dd, but she's reluctant to give her anything other than work in the top work group. She has agreed to do some testing for maths, but we've not had a full conversation about what that would entail yet or what the result of that might be. DD has said that kids get stickers for hard work and says she always works hard but rarely gets a sticker. I suspect she whizzes through things and is overlooked because it's, in a sense, effortless and the teacher doesn't see how much it means to dd.

I guess I am wondering to do. DD is happy enough, she doesn't want to be skipped, she wants harder work in class and says she is happy to do different work to the other kids. The teacher seems to feel dd shouldn't be under too much pressure (which of course I agree with, but she's not under anything at the moment) and I suspect that while the teacher might be very experienced with optimally gifted kids, she may not be with HG kids. I am concerned that long term we're going to see problems without a skip and that perhaps a skip in to grade 2 next year would be the best option.

I have to admit I am a bit tired of advocating at the moment. It seems to have been a continuous process since the start of the year. I think dd is tired of being 'different' and needing special arrangements to be made for her. I think she's reluctant to re-do the skip because she found the initial experience so traumatic. I know I will need to speak to the teacher to get some better accommodations but I am wanting to form an idea of what I want before I do so. What are your thoughts? Do I start to prepare for a skip next year? (we've got half a year to do so, but I figure if that's what we want it's best to start the ball rolling early so everyone can be prepared for it) Or do I let dd have another year at grade level after this one and hope we get a teacher who can really differentiate for her? DD's tester felt she would need at least two skips over the course of her schooling and it is already apparent that a single skip still wont put her at her competency level (for example she 'gets' much of the grade four maths curriculum and once she knows her times tables, which she is currently doing at home, she'd be able to do most of it, and as I mentioned she can read anything and review it verbally - she gets bored of writing, even though she has good hand writing, it's just too slow a process and doesn't keep up with her brain).

Sorry this is so long - I haven't proof read it either as I have to head out the door, so hopefully I've made some sense!

Hi, Kvmum! I still remember that you were one of the ones that helped me when I first posted here.

That's a tough situation. The consequences of a failed skip might be pretty severe, in terms of turning your daughter off to the idea of acceleration, and that might happen even if the skip succeeds academically in the short term, due to anger at being removed from her current social group and being given extra pressure on top of it. I, complete newbie, think that the single biggest issue with raising an advanced kid is nurturing their love of learning and challenge, and that it can be a dicey business.

What about home schooling? If feasible, that seems like it could let you give your daughter what she needs academically, over a long enough period for her to get comfortable with performing consistently at a higher level, while decoupling her academic advancement from worries about fitting in with social peers. Then a re-entry to school might be achievable down the road, at an appropriate learning level and whenever she's comfortable with the idea. I know home schooling might be tough to do, but it might solve a lot of frustrations short term.

If you must leave her in school, I think that what I'd be likely to do personally is leave her where she is for a year, and teach/enrich her at home. But that approach would be based in large measure on fear, and not necessarily the best thing for her. The obvious extreme danger is that she'd learn that avoiding challenge, staying comfortable, and keeping her head down are for the best.

I'm on my phone and can't check, but I believe it is one of the deal-killers on the Iowa Acceleration Scales, come to think of it.

Nail on the head.


I think that's thte challenge we are all faced with, and ultimately what these decisions come down to.

We put our hg+ twins in the local public elementary kindergarten with the mindset that we could always change schools if it didn't work out. We set aside some savings so we could do a private school at a moment's notice. Fast forward six years and they are entering middle school (6th grade) without switching schools and with no grade skip. And, we have not regrets. Not every teacher has been great, but most have gone above and beyond in accommodating our kids. The kids have flourished socially (a learned skill for dd) and learned quite a bit, academic and otherwise. (For example, ds has learned to cheerfully accept both daily math homework and that he must revise his writing - a huge deal for us.) And although we do not formally afterschool, we have a home environment that is pretty academically stimulating. And this past year, we have also supplemented with a few online courses through NUMATS.

"If it is not broke, don't fix it" has worked well for us, and the savings in private school tuition gives us a great head start on college savings.

Thanks for your replies. They're very reassuring. I guess the reason I feel torn is because on the one hand I have seen where we end up if a skip is unsuccessful and I never want dd to have to feel that way again (I should stress that the work was still under her level despite it being a grade 1/2 composite and the main problem was that lack of support and an incredibly chaotic classroom). On the other hand and I read a post on this here recently, we've kind of entered a phase of grey. She's happy enough to go to school, but isn't really learning anything (other than how school works, which I do feel is important to my rule focussed girl) and that seems ok to me for the rest of the year (our school year finishes in December). She's building her confidence back up and so on.

What she's not doing is showing any interest in the kids from school outside of school, which is very unlike her and she's just playing with random kids each day (she'd rather watch paint dry with someone, anyone, than hang around on her own). She's also, as I mentioned starting to show some signs of her perfectionism increasing. So the not learning, no real social connections (though it is a lovely group of kids) and the increase in perfectionism are all red flags to me. I guess I feel that 6 months more is fine, 18 months more might be a problem. The teacher says there is a another girl in the class at the same level as dd and I think she's using this girl as the bar for where dd should be at. I spend a bit of time in the classroom and she's right, this girl is a bright high achiever, but she's not at the same level as dd. I have met the girls family and they're very focused on academics, which we're not (the maths dd does at home is because she loves it - she does maths rather than reads before she goes to bed and we don't really do anything formally). The teacher wouldn't necessarily know though because dd just does as she's told. That is my other concern, dd will perform to exactly the level expected of her, which makes it hard because it means the teacher never sees more and therefore doesn't expect more.

But I'm very reluctant to skip without dd being on board. I am also feeling unsure that not skipping is not going to have other ramifications. Sigh...

Lucounu, DH and I have thought about home schooling on and off, but DH especially is against it. The other issue for me is that I don't feel remotely equipped to do it. School for me was somewhat of a disaster and if I'm honest, I'm learning aspects of grade three/four maths right along side dd. Not sure that would make for an ideal home schooling situation!

Perhaps I'll leave it for another term with gentle nudges to the teacher for harder work and see where we are at that point.

You mentioned your dd was distressed about the stickers the teacher is giving out. One small thing you might do is request a meeting for you and your dd with the teacher about stickers. Would your dd be willing to tell the teacher she would like to earn more stickers and ask what would be required to do that? There is a chance it could even open the door to a discussion about deeper underlying issues.

For us, so much of school success has been about building an alliance with the teacher. There's something to be said for seeking opportunities like this when the stakes are low. And what a great way for your dd to learn about self-advocating!

gosh kvmom I can totally understand where you are at - you could be describing my son, Aiden.

All the best for making your decision - and for getting the right one made.

Is it not possible to get a 2 - 4 week trial in the next grade up so that your daughter can see what it would be like before it's an official formality?

I'm not sure that I'd be comfortable with status quo on this one. While she may be happy to an extent, the perfectionism is something that we found to improve with a skip and I don't like the idea of no real peers either. My younger dd has been in that situation for most of elementary. She's a tremendously outgoing kid but she mostly had acquaintances and no real friends who she felt really got her at a deep level.

Your mention of her tiring of needing special accommodations also reminds me of my dd12 when she was 8-9 y/o. She started that school year as one of the only kids in her class leaving for a reading pull-out daily and told me that she just wanted to be "normal" for once and not stand out as the odd kid who went somewhere different. I couldn't bring myself to remove her from the pull-out, though, b/c, like your dd, it was still much too simple for what she needed and she was so far ahead in language arts that the regular classroom would have been a ridiculous placement.

It really sounds to me like your dd is more able than either of my kids. I realize that all HG+ kids don't need to skip grades and I have one who is 2e who won't be doing more than subject acceleration in one area. I have another, though, for whom the grade skip was one of the best decisions we made (followed by ignoring the advice to redshirt her for K b/c of where her bd fell.)

Is subject acceleration a possibility at all at your school? I'd agree that the failed skip at the other school is likely coloring your dd's views. She is still a very young child although it is hard to remember that when she's so bright. No matter how able, young kids don't bring the life experience to the table that adults do. I'd try hard to see if the school and your dd can get on board with subject acceleration in at least math and/or language arts. Perhaps after a while of that, she'll be more open to skipping.

A few different things popped into my head as I read your post.

1. Is subject acceleration possible? Even if it doesn't cover all of her bases, it will provide challenge in one area and help make sure she learns to learn.

2. If she is socially happy, don't second guess it (unless you are afraid you wouldn't know if she was unhappy, which doesn't seem to be the case).

3. The fact a psychologist says a student needs a couple full year skips would not make the case for me. HG/PG kids all vary dramatically. My DYS son is doing pretty well for the time being (not perfect, but pretty well) with no full skips and a 2 years of math acceleration (soon to be 3). My DD, who is untested but I would guess is MG (although who knows) would probably be the one who would benefit from a full skip, she is very mature, doesn't suffer fools gladly, and highly independent.

4. I would get the math assessment tomorrow (if teacher won't get it done go to the principal), and then use that as a starting point. If she was able to go to math a couple grades up, how would you feel about the current situation? Would that address a number of your concerns.

5. If she is happy in her class without any super close friends right now, I wouldn't worry about it. I think trusting our kids about how they feel about social situations is important. I know that I sometimes project my own concerns about friendships and relationships when there really isn't an issue.

Good luck, it is great that you were able to get her to a school where she is happy. And I echo the sentiment that it is okay to take a break from advocacy - in the end, your DD will be great.

Thanks again all.

I had a chat to dd about whether or not she though she might be interested in subject acceleration and she said she liked the idea of it and would think about it. I suggested that if it was an option the school would go for then I was sure it could be done on a trial basis and she could test out whether or not she liked it. This seemed to reassure her.

I hadn't really thought about subject acceleration because she is globally HG, but of course it makes perfect sense as an introduction and perhaps down the track, knowing some older kids, teachers etc she might feel more confident about the idea of a full skip. And if not, but she likes the subject acceleration, perhaps we can eventuallu subject accelerate in a couple of areas, which would at least go some way to meeting her needs.

DD said the teacher did some maths testing yesterday, but apparently only on addition and subtraction facts using flash cards, which dd is good at, but doesn't particularly enjoy. She often rushes through addition and subtraction without thinking about her answers, so goodness knows how she'll do. We have parent teacher interviews the week after next so I'll see what the teacher has to say and if she's still adamant that dd's fine where she is perhaps we'll get some private achievement testing done too. They have her psych test which says she will need extensive differentiation in maths (her NVIQ is 150) but they have obviously chosen not to test that out.

A subject skip takes the pressure off a bit too in terms of advocacy as I suspect (hope?) it would not take so much to organise (could be being naive about that).

Thanks again.

My oldest is globally gifted as well and probably globally HG. Pre and post skip, she tested in the 99th percentile on english, reading, science, social studies... everything except math. Math usually runs btwn the 92nd to 97th percentile (again pre and post skip). We did the subject acceleration in her strongest subject (literacy). It wasn't a fix b/c she didn't belong in the grade level classroom even in her weakest area, but it was a good intro. Good luck! I hope that you can work something out.

I have to agree, being one of those people who would rather watch paint dry with a friend than almost anything else alone - this is fine for 6 more months, but to be avoided if possible for the next 18.

I think the subject acceleration is a great idea, and would ask for that now. I also think arranging a few playdates with 'bright' children from the current 1st grade is a great idea. Ask the first grade teachers to give you phone numbers of mom's from the first grade class - perhaps they know of 1st graders who are new to the area and would welcome the contact, or of 1st graders who are bright but shy and might like playing with a younger girl. (There is such a thing!)

Anyway - I would continue to bring in work samples from home to keep showing the teacher, in a friendly way: "DD loved your unit on Dolphins, I thought you'd enjoy seeing her story that she wrote about them - she finds you so inspiring!"

some call it passive agressive, some call it killing with kindness, I call it 'siege-mentality can create the win!'

Smiles - take small breaks - it's ok to complain to us while no one is looking! -
Grinity