I have a meeting next week to discuss with the principal my dd5's placement in first grade (I hope).
I hope it's not just a nice chat about how they don't do that!

They are really cryptic, unnecessarily so, imo.
It seems like if they were just going to do this thing it could be done over the phone, but unfortunately, I guess they are going to give me the business.
(She finished K, and now is actually ready for first).

I am at a loss as to how to prepare for this, other than re-present the info I've already given them (mainly her wppsi test scores - 99%ile on both verbal and math). But I think they've also done a 5 minute assessment of her (5 minutes!!) and have a report from her K teacher.

Any ideas would be great -- should I go whole-hog and bring in writing and reading examples, drawings, anecdotes?
Boy am I tired of this.

One thing that has me on guard is the office admin who made the appointment for me said something like, "we have these test scores you sent, hmm, they're a year old"...
Why do people say stuff like that? Like I don't know my daughter could get different results the next day, even more likely next year? They're not a very subtle bunch over there...
If I didn't think the scores supported what I see everyday, I would not be pursuing this... as if I enjoy interfacing with this group of people so much I am making up stuff to come in and meet about. SHEESH.

Sorry-- venting.

Chris,
Good luck!! I hope you get what she needs.

Sheila

Good luck!
We only just managed to get a grade advancement for our daughter (for the fifth grade instead of 4th). We were able to, because she completed the 4th grade curriculum of home school (along with other outside advanced classes) concurrently with her 3rd grade brick-n-mortar classroom. We had to go all the way to the Asst Superintendent, because the principal just couldn't fathom how a child would need a grade advancement.
(If I hear "yes, but her age is...." one more time..!)
We had Woodcock Johnson scores showing achievement through GE12-13 across the board and other tests. The principal just couldn't see scores and her other outside work. It took going to the Asst Superintendent (with the principal's suggestion actually...).
No idea what is going to happen this year.
Good luck.

They test you with obnoxious comments to test your resolve. I agree that a phone call would be better, but this isn't nescessarily bad news.
I would bring
Originally Posted By: mnmom23
Originally Posted By: Grinity
Anyone go a link to the article 'What a child doesn't learn?'
http://www.wku.edu/academy/?p=430

although I would print it out and not expect them to read the tatoo version.

Smiles,
Grinity

During our meeting with the principal the other thing my husband did to combat the "BUT her AGE is..." problem was to say, "if it were simply an age thing, I wouldn't be standing here right now. There would be no need." Also, he would say "this is not the usual case" or "this is not a typical case"--trying to say it is different but avoiding the word normal or abnormal.

Good Luck again. Let us know how it goes.

If they say that thing about the test scores being a year old again, I would simply pretend ignorance of the actual meaning and say, in all innocence, "Oh, yes, she's learned so much more since last year!" Thus implying that the test scores would only be better if they were from now -- which is almost certainly the case, but not what they have in mind.

And take everything you possibly can, just in case you need it. It's much easier to leave lots of stuff in the folder than it is to show them something you left at home.

I can't imagine that they would be telling you she can't go into first grade if they already let her go to kindergarten -- does that seem like a possibility? What would they expect her to do for a year in between those? (Ask about internet college courses to throw them off balance.)

Ah, the kindergarten is another school, alas, so I have to do the uphill battle with the p.s. that I had to do with the private k. Sigh.

Just remembered this from the dr who tested dd, she said she's the 'second highest scoring person she's seen in her office in 20 years'. I have to take that with a grain of salt, but I am not adverse to rolling this out as a quote to the principal if need be.

Not a lot of time this weekend, but I will be sure to put together a few things, like a handful of the math problem cards from sequence-numbers game that dd is able to do on her own, etc. (the easy ones, but still!)

Comb their website for catch-phrases and mission statements so you can use their favorite words in your meeting. i.e. Of course, we all want dd to "reach her fullest potential while nurturing the whole child." etc.

ooh, good thought, thanks!

Persistence overcomes resistance. Good luck.

best of luck!

Good luck tomorrow. Don't let them talk about what will they do the next year and the next year, and what will happen when she's younger than everyone in high school. Try to get them to focus on teaching your child what she needs now. Bring up "zone of proximal development" if you need to (kids learn best when things are a little bit above their level, I believe is the nutshell version of ZPD).

I would bring copies of all the samples (I made the mistake of giving some original stuff last year, which was LOST for a good period of time at the school....

I agree with the other poster who said, "Yes, these scores are a year old. She seems so far beyond this now." Also might add, "Do you think it would be a good idea to test her yourself? I know it's easier for you to relate to test scores that you are familiar with." (Well - if you wouldn't mind the testing, I'd recommend that, anyway.)

If they start saying "we can differentiate for her in kindy", if appropriate, I'd suggest saying that you believe she would need differentiation even in 1st, and it's easier to differentiate one year than two, or something like that.

I hope everything goes well!

Thanks!! I have gathered some stuff up, even made a quick math worksheet for her to complete, for her to show her stuff. Reversed numbers and all...

I already KNOW the school is not good at differentiation, they are just not geared towards it...got to figure out an ok way to say that to their faces.

"It is a very rare teacher that has all the pieces in place to do this well, so I would rather look towards what would work for her within a typical classroom." <-- hey, that sounds pretty good!

OKAY.
Well that could have gone worse...
Started with the principal asking me to tell me about my daughter, which I did, restraining myself from getting all 'and when she was 2 months old...' only in consideration of our time limit.

Basically just explained why I thought to put her in school early to begin with, why I got testing, etc.
Then she showed me dd's k-entry assessment, which showed a good but not perfect score on letter-id and everything else right on the shapes, colors, etc. She showed me a "classic" kid drawing that dd had done, girl with triangle body/dress, round head and stick arms. (how EMBARASSING! -- just kidding).
Anyway, so after she explained that she thought dd would struggle in first (I guess despite doing pretty good in k already) I brought out my folder of little things she has done with me or brought home from school.
It was really a good feeling to be able to counter this 'low spatial awareness' kindergarten-style drawing with one of dd's more amazingly complex geometric freak-out drawings. Seriously, I think the principal didn't say anything at all for a couple seconds. (Not that I put a whole lot of stock in that being 'telling' for cognitive ability, but for style, it definitely gets points! It was fairly abstract but as a demonstration of spatial awareness, I think the symmetry and dynamic composition do ok. And I did give my two cents about how dd only started drawing these bodies after going to K (didn't remember to mention all her drawing from 'above' with 100% foreshortening of the little people standing in a garden...darn it!)

I also had made up a quick 15 problem math sheet for her to 'show her stuff' and handed that over, pointing out she is doing pretty well, and knows all about zero, which was particularly delightful to her to figure out on her own.
Some notes she's written, and a couple spelling games we'd played on paper in the past.

Anyway, she seemed to ignore the testing for the most part, no mention of the 140 'performance' score, just mentioned that her processing speed might be an issue if she was moved ahead. 107? I got a kid with like 45 or something for psi, 107 is totally not scary to me. (I do take that somewhat seriously, but in the grand scheme, a slightly above average psi I would not think should hold her back.)

I mentioned that the math in particular seemed to be a real disappointment for our son in the last few years and differentiation did not seem to really come to fruition. She actually admitted that they were seeing this as a failure on their part in the first year since opening 3 years ago, and have been working on a plan to make more specific arrangements for each child (hmmm). Also, she said they have a substantially altered math curriculum for the coming fall, including such things as 7th grade work pulled down into 4th grade, which would have been awesome a couple years back!
I tried not to pull my ds experience into this too much, but a lot of where I am coming from has been formed from that experience, plain and simple.

So in the end we agreed to disagree for now, I need some more documentation from the Kindergarten, and they will do a reading assessment in August. If that goes ok, I think I will certainly move ahead. Apparently at this point, it is my decision, just need a couple more things in place. Whew.

I am going to review curriculum changes, and that sort of thing, however I am still leaning towards first for dd. Especially considering:
1. if she went to K she would probably do WAY too well and I can not keep feeding the perfectionism demon, and 2. getting a skip later will take FORever. First the kid has to be id'd gifted (months of paperwork, waiting, etc.) then they have to proceed with enrichment, THEN if she still needs more they consider skipping. and 3. she is NOT a patient or quiet person like my ds; if they start to mess with her, I don't know what is gonna happen. It would not be pretty.

That's great news that the ball's in your court! Especially after they came into the meeting with triangle people drawings to show you why your DD shouldn't go to first.

Just a quick note to say another reason for not waiting on the skip is friends. There is more of a chance to find closer peers in 1st, and it's easier to make new friends earlier than later. (And later your DD might be more likely to say no way to a skip if she's got a good friend base.) FWIW, my DS made friends more quickly when he skipped to 2nd, and then even more quickly again when he switched to a GT school mid-year. For him, it was much easier to make friends in groups closer to his intellectual range.

Congrats on your advocacy during the meeting!

If it's your decision, then it's a win. It sounds like they just wanted to 'chew on you' one more time so that you can't say they didn't warn you. Well that's ok. They have no idea what it's like to raise a kid with that kind of IQ score, and if you find that you need to try something else later, you will.

So 'hip,hip, horray!'

As for not believing the tester - I don't think a tester would say it if they didn't mean it - it's doesn't make them look good afterall. I think a lot more overestimate their experience then underestimate!

Glad you packed your samples!
Grinity